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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Isomers: R and S Ketamine

im amazed the debate rages on (in another board) it still seems their is absolutely NO consensus, im a bit interested now that i have access to the s-isomer (costs a bit more) and im wondering wether or not to dive in. and i take it nobody has tasted the isolated r-isomer yet?
 
to me, S-ketamine seems identical to racemic ketamine in effect, only much more potent - which is a good thing to me, since I take my K nasally and seem to have a very high natural tolerance.
 
First off I realize Ket S has a different effect than racemic K or the seldom/never seen R isomer.

I think it would be useful to pool peoples estimations of what the difference in potency is regarding psychedelic effects between isomers.

So for those of you who have had the pleasure of trying both Ket S and the racemate, or Ket R, what is your estimation of the difference in potency?

I found Ket S to be about 60% stronger than the racemate, this difference was more apparent at doses around 100mg insuffalated. To achieve a K-hole the difference was smaller, although the experience seemed more psychedelic with the S isomer.

What do you think?
 
Nonsense, both isomers are active but they have different preference to act on certain receptors. The S-isomer is about 2-4 times more potent as an anaesthetic because it acts more on the PCP-site and opioid receptors but I don't think it means it's general potency is bigger. The R-isomer is reported to be more psychedelically dissociative. So you lose consciousness and feeling of pain much quicker with the S-isomer but tripping on K really isn't about anaesthesia and analgesia if you ask me.
 
Racemic ketamine is a mixture of half S (+)- and half R (-)-ketamine. S (+)-ketamine has a fourfold higher affinity for the phencyclidine site in the NMDA receptor than R (-)-ketamine, which is believed to relate to the two-times higher analgesic potency of the S (+)-isomer than the racemic compound.
 
My personal experiences with S(+) is that it wasn't as much fun at racemic, and it didn't even seem as strong, maybe due to the lack of physical effects. I never tried it at K-hole doses, but I remember IM'ing 25-30mg at least, maybe 50mg, and never feeling nearly as much as I would with racemic.

But I think I really like what the R(-) adds, when you first feel it hit you with IM, it feels like a short opiate burst, combined with that strangeness that only ketamine has.
 
I have IMed S at half the dose as racemic and felt even more of a body high even though it was half the dose, your stuff must b cut
 
I find s-ket to be a lot more psychedelic with little/less body sloppiness. I liked it, beause it felt more "clear", but I would prefer racemic myself.

I had thought the r-isomer was inactive by itself...?
 
The R isomer is definitively active, the difference in effects between S and the racemate is too great for it to be inert.

I concur that the Racemat feels more opiate like. It has a stronger sedative quality that makes the K hole easier for me to reach.

This is all so subjective, but I don't find the S to be twice as potent, and given that both isomers are clear crystals corresponding in structure to the pictures in the other thread, I doubt they are cut. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=447611
 
S isomer i had visuals off it. Ceiling melting for a good 45min. It was different. Mabey it was a mix of rac and s??
 
swilow said:
I find s-ket to be a lot more psychedelic with little/less body sloppiness. I liked it, beause it felt more "clear", but I would prefer racemic myself.
Click to expand...

I almost agree entirely, Swirlow :)

I too would describe s-ket as being more psychedelic, clearer and less body-sloppy. On a goodly dose of racemic I stagger about like a dizzy dypsomaniac with Duchenne's but on s-ket my gait can just about pass for sober... at a distance anyway. For me, s-ket is more sedating - almost opiatesque - whilst racemic has a slightly stimulating edge. Well, underneath the anaesthetised inability to move or think anyway :D

Although very fond of both, I find the psychedelic effects of s-ket more to my taste than the racemic variety. It feels more involving perhaps - I feel less like a helpless passenger just along for the ride to look at the ineffable pretty things and more like a real part of ketworld. I find it much gentler on mind and body too and it's easier to relate to the wonders it reveals - not so hard to integrate, maybe. Tis hard to explain and that's a pisspoor attempt, but it's all I can currently muster so must suffice for now :\

As to potency, on my recent ket binge I was using (intravenously) ~100mg of s-ket to get to a similar place as ~125mg of racemic (both batches from impeccable sources with definitely no cuts whatsoever). So for me, I found s-ket to be slightly more potent. But also very different in subjective effects so potency really doesn't really tell the whole story. If I had to choose only one, I'd probably go for s-ket. Would rather not have to choose at all though =D
 
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Ketamine right isomer

has anyone else run into this? I got this a while ago and it really is weird stuff. If i sit down i wont k-hole but if i get up and try to walk around it hits me.
 
I didn't know the right isomer was even manufactured on it's own. Have only had racemic and s-ket so don't have anything more useful to add though...

Sure it's definitely r-ket? If so you have quite the rarity on your hands and I have ket envy :D
 
yeah its definatly the r-ket. My friend had a sample sent into a lab to be sure
 
It's definately difficult, but entirely possible to separate optical isomers. I've seen R(-)ketamine for sale but it's rare.
 
*adds obscure ket to shopping list*

Any more details on the effects and how they differ from s-ket and standard racemic?
 
I find it to be slightly more visual than the other two but other than the weird k-holing its pretty much the same
 
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