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Thread: Big and Dandy Loperamide Adddiction Thread

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    Big and Dandy Loperamide Adddiction Thread 
    #1
    I read probably 75 posts from 2 or 3 threads on loperamide. I decided to post my experience with this drug. In 2003 I was addicted to opiates and decided to quit (again). While researching what helps, what to expect, etc. during withdrawals (again) I came across a blog touting the benefits of using loperamide for the symptoms. The writer used the term "over the counter methadone". Here it is 5 years later and I have gone back and forth from rx opiates to Loperamide. This is embarassing, virtually impossible to get help for - no professionals have ever heard of or believe it - and for me, has been impossible to kick - due in part to it's price (one writer said $15.99 for 196 pills - the warehouses carry it even cheaper - and the fact that for me, the symptoms of wd are closer to methadone than hydro, etc. I don't know about the blood brain barrier and all that chemistry stuff (I've read it, but it's Greek to me). All I know is I do take ALOT of pills anywhere from 20 to almost 100 daily and occasionally have taken more. I've never done heroin, so I don't know if it's like that, but for me, it is similar to the painkillers I abuse. That is how bad my addiction is.


    Moderator Note: In the past, we have has issues with loperamide threads. Any form of doucebaggory and flaming will get you warned, and eventually banned. I have unapproved a few posts in here, so consider this your warning. This is a harm reduction site, and we should try and help eachother out as productively as possible.
    Last edited by Unknown; 30-05-2009 at 10:30.
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    #2
    Bluelighter EnYAY's Avatar
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    im assuming you haven't taken a shit since 2004?
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    #3
    yeah i imagine 140-700 pills of loperamide weekly would turn your shit to unshittable cement bricks. Loperamide helped out a lot when I was w/d, but I probably only took 6 in a day at most and that still messed with my bowels a bit...
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    #4
    Bluelighter SyR1S's Avatar
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    Troll or Legit?
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    #5
    Any time you replace one drug with another, whether it's OTC or whatever, you run the risk of transferring your addiction to the new drug. Part of it is undoubtedly psychological, but in the case of high dose loperamide, quitting would likely cause diarrhea and most of the same horrific w/d symptoms of other opiates, so it's physical too.

    Still, 100 pills of ANYTHING is not good for you, and constipation is a lot more harmful than most people realize. Going "#2" is one of the main ways our bodies eliminate toxins, so NOT voiding your bowels regularly can result in bloating, fatigue, increased allergy symptoms, leaky gut syndrome, bowel obstruction, and even colon cancer. And these things are only the tip of the iceberg.

    I suggest trying your damndest to taper off the opiates, or at least the loperamide at a rate that's comfortable for you. And please don't be embarrassed to talk to your doctor about it, as it's obviously a real problem for you that's causing significant trouble in your life, making it worth talking about. Just tell him/her that you read that it helps opiate withdrawals and ended up dependent on it. Any decent doctor or addiction specialist will take your concerns seriously and get you the help you need to get better. If they don't, go somewhere else. You deserve just as much attention and sympathy as someone coming off heroin or any other drug.
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    #6
    Loperamide is an opioid. It binds to mu receptors in the gut. Risk of dependance is very real, and written on the side of the box on every package of Immodium and generics. There is no reason a physician wouldn't believe you.

    Do you consume other substances like GFJ, Quinine, Quinidine, etc based on what you read regarding P-GP ? Some people take it very far with Loperamide.

    Keep in mind a few very basic facts that people on BL tend to blow up about Loperamide.

    1) It is no more harmful to your digestive system and bowels than any other opioid. The action Loperamide uses to treat diarrhea is exactly the same as every other opioid; the only difference is that Loperamide does not affect the CNS as much as other full my agonist opioids.

    2) Loperamide is an opioid. You are not 'addicted' to Loperamide, as you do not compulsively consume it for euphoria. It sounds like a part conscious part subconscious attempt at Opiate Replacement Therapy that got out of hand.

    3) This is not the first time someone has become physically dependant on Loperamide. And it won't be the last. It was originally going to be scheduled CV along with related drugs (Diphenoxylate & Difenoxin) because of this. But Diphenoxylate and Difenoxin do cross the BBB and affect the CNS (euphoria, respiratory depression, etc) while Loperamide does not, so it was given OTC status.

    High doses of Loperamide are most likely no more damaging to the body than high doses of any other opioid (which is to say not at all or very little). Taking dozens to hundreds of pills regularly is not good for your body.

    A responsible doctor would recommend a brief MMT or BMT treatment. If you are still going back and forth between Loperamide and opioids of abuse, you still have a problem. It may be beneficial to use calculated, accurate doses of Buprenorphine or Methadone to maintain and then taper down your dependancy, if that is your goal, or stay on maintenance to sort things out in your life.

    Otherwise, seek the help of a general practitioner, who will most likely prescribe Lomotil, Clonidine, Valium and Ibuprofen and order a brief taper with the Lomotil (Diphenoxylate/Atropine) and cold turkey with the help of symptom management meds (the rest).

    But, regardless of their approach they will know best how to handle the issue. Trying to fix this on your own has seemingly only made things worse. Seek professional help, whether its maintenance, a taper or help gaining abstinence altogether.
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    #7
    This is an opiate? A Google search turned up contradictory results. Some said that snorting it will allow it to cross the blood brain barrier and cause a high. Hell, I don't know!!
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    #8
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    OP I really hope you aren't trolling. "OTC methadone" was taken right from phreex's guide to wd and this discussion hasn't exactly ever lead anywhere good. Some of what you are saying makes me think you are...

    That said if you aren't and really can't get any help then your only choices are maintenance, CT or taper to CT. Good luck and I hope everything works out for ya.
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    #9
    Bluelight
    Quote Originally Posted by SyR1S View Post
    Troll or Legit?
    Legit

    There is no reason for us to believe he is lying, and as Tchort pointed out, this is a real documented issue, he is not the first, and he will not be the last to deal with this problem.
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    #10
    i have to go with the belief this is legit, i read up alot about immodium and for some yes it will cross the bb barrier, and like was stated above it acts like any other opiod would, why do we get constipated while doing opiates? i personally have never gotten anything from it but will admit to an addiction of benadryl at one point of my life , which most rehabs doctors will scuff at, to the op what you need to do is wean down , that is the only way your gonna do it, count how many you did today and start weaning, you have a very addictive personality so i would probably stay away from using drugs like benzo's to wean with, but you will have to do it (if your serious about quitting) just like the rest of us on opiods do, either cold turkey or wean down, just do some searches in here about withdrawing from opiates and just put said drug of choice in there, some people will get addicted to anything that feels good, they will do it to death, goodluck and sorry to here about your problem

    i also want to say that for very few this will work for so if your looking for a cheap legal high it most likely wont work for you and you will make yourself sick doing it, i never felt anything doing immodium and believe me i tried
    Last edited by ashla; 21-05-2009 at 17:04. Reason: edit
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    #11
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    Addiction can certainly manifest itself with or without a psychoactive substance. BBB aside you are the only person that can truly say what you are or aren't addicted to. Not to say that this isn't a chemical dependency just that one could certainly argue that a compulsive eater/gambler/whatever is an addict, its all about how your brain rewards you whether it be chemical acheived or simply eating chocolate cake... Now I'm rambling, at any rate if you need help you should get it.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMatador View Post
    Legit

    There is no reason for us to believe he is lying, and as Tchort pointed out, this is a real documented issue, he is not the first, and he will not be the last to deal with this problem.
    For that very reason I don't think it matters if he is or isn't trolling.

    Way too much misinformation gets put out there about Loperamide. I haven't seen anyone talk about the dependancy issues relating to it (something that has always bothered me about it being available OTC). Unlike other opioids that do effectively cross the BBB and cause euphoria, this is a chemical that doesn't give any signs that is causing dependancy, because it doesn't give any signs that it is even doing anything.

    Since it won't cross the BBB and cause CNS effects in the overwhelming majority of people who take even ridiculous supratherapeutic doses of it extensively, they aren't aware it is having any effect, until one day they stop experimenting and lethargy, insomnia, diarrhea, etc start occuring out of the blue. Though my concern is mostly for the general public who assumes anything OTC is safe and harmless.
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    #13
    @ksflorida99: Do you get ANY euphoria at all when you pop lets say 150 pills of loperamide?
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    #14
    Bluelighter StaffWriter's Avatar
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    Somethings just wrong with having to take 150 pills of ANYTHING. You need to quit. Cold turkey should be fine. Don't even think about suboxone or methadone for Lopermide! LOL
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    #15
    ^How do you know cold turkey should be fine? Don't you think if it was, he would have already tried it and been fine?

    I think you should listen to Tchort and others.
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    #16
    Bluelighter pallidamors's Avatar
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    You should really get help for the whole loperamide addiction thing, OP, if you are sincere and not just making a feeble attempt at trolling. IIRC, theres some colon problems that seem to be unique to loperamide, perhaps its due to the fact that its so severely constipating, but there seem to be colon issues that don't really manifest with long term use of other opiates. If doctors havent heard of loperamide addiction, or are initially unwilling to treat it, you can inform them that loperamide addiction can be treated in a similar fashion to other oral opiates. Your use seems to be pretty intense, and I'm guessing you're one of those rare folk that get actual BBB-crossing effects from loperamide, so perhaps you will need some pharmacological assistance (in the form of buprenorphine, or at least clonidine) in quitting as opposed to going cold turkey. But definitely talk this over with your GP soon, even if loperamide is an OTC drug, the physical effects of coming off it will be markedly unpleasant. Good luck!
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    I don't know what "op" is 
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny blue View Post
    OP I really hope you aren't trolling. "OTC methadone" was taken right from phreex's guide to wd and this discussion hasn't exactly ever lead anywhere good. Some of what you are saying makes me think you are...

    That said if you aren't and really can't get any help then your only choices are maintenance, CT or taper to CT. Good luck and I hope everything works out for ya.

    but, it seems like it was meant for me. I also don't know what trolling is. However, that being said. I read a little more responses. and first, thanks really
    because this is real, and a couple of you guys offered some real support. Second, I think i got to a response that said "he"... I'm a girl. I just got on the
    suboxone program and tried for a couple of days, but i'm still going back and forth
    a bit. I'm going to try subox again this weekend or next week............
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ksflorida99 View Post
    but, it seems like it was meant for me. I also don't know what trolling is. However, that being said. I read a little more responses. and first, thanks really
    because this is real, and a couple of you guys offered some real support. Second, I think i got to a response that said "he"... I'm a girl. I just got on the
    suboxone program and tried for a couple of days, but i'm still going back and forth
    a bit. I'm going to try subox again this weekend or next week............
    You didn't answer my previous question.

    Are you on Suboxone treatment for Loperamide-addiction?
    hm.. or do you got another opioid dependence history before the "loperamide addiction period" ?
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ksflorida99 View Post
    but, it seems like it was meant for me. I also don't know what trolling is. However, that being said. I read a little more responses. and first, thanks really
    because this is real, and a couple of you guys offered some real support. Second, I think i got to a response that said "he"... I'm a girl. I just got on the
    suboxone program and tried for a couple of days, but i'm still going back and forth
    a bit. I'm going to try subox again this weekend or next week............
    Thats great. Is your doctor helping you find a stable dosing regimine, or did he just write you a script and say 'bye'? It's important to find a dose that you feel comfortable on.

    There is a huge cache of Buprenorphine information, experience reports, etc here on BL, you may benefit from reading through the Suboxone Mega Thread.

    Somethings just wrong with having to take 150 pills of ANYTHING. You need to quit. Cold turkey should be fine. Don't even think about suboxone or methadone for Lopermide! LOL
    Why? Buprenorphine or Methadone at the appropriate doses and in a medical setting would provide dozens of benefits to the patient.

    Loperamide is a potent mu agonist; when it was first synthed by Jannsen they were exploring synthetic Fentanyl and Pethidine analogues of high potency to use as analgesics. It just happens to not cross the BBB in sufficient quantity to have central nervous system effects (unless it is coated with Polysorbate 80 nanoparticles and injected, in which case it does cross the BBB and act like a typical powerful narcotic analgesic). By weight, it is more potent than Morphine in terms of its effects on the mu receptors in the large intestine (i.e. 2mg Loperamide and around 10mg Morphine have equal effect on motility/peristalsis).

    Cold turkey should be fine with any opioid, but in practice it isn't. 200mg Loperamide a day is huge. Withdrawal syndrome is apparent with 2mg-6mg a day for people who use it daily for a bowel condition.
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    #20
    Bluelighter StaffWriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane2theLeft View Post
    ^How do you know cold turkey should be fine? Don't you think if it was, he would have already tried it and been fine?

    I think you should listen to Tchort and others.
    I have serious problems with people who have a percieved addiction getting on suboxone or methadone. Esp. to Loperamide. A taper might work, I wouldn't be against that. But after 10 years of a pretty hardcore addiction, I'm jaded to the fact that everyone's hopping on maintenance for every little thing.
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    Sorry, I didn't notice 
    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by DeLee View Post
    You didn't answer my previous question.

    Are you on Suboxone treatment for Loperamide-addiction?
    hm.. or do you got another opioid dependence history before the "loperamide addiction period" ?
    No, noone but a few people know about the loperamide. I tell providers, hydro, percs, etc. it is just easier. In 2003, I was on methadone and kicked at home alone w/out any comfort meds. After about 2 months clean, I was scheduled to go back to work. I panicked and got 120 hydr 10's from my Dr. It was that "detox" that I was searching the web for info, support, etc. and came across the blog where I learned that loperamide was being researched in the 70's (?) for pain relief, and developers noticed this greater than other opiate ability to bind (or reduce diarreha). That was the first time I ever used it. Historically, my use is based on relapsing on Rx and then to prevent w/d pick up loperamide.
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    No & Thanks 
    #22
    [QUOTE=Tchort;7162123]Loperamide is an opioid. It binds to mu receptors in the gut. Risk of dependance is very real, and written on the side of the box on every package of Immodium and generics. There is no reason a physician wouldn't believe you.

    Do you consume other substances like GFJ, Quinine, Quinidine, etc based on what you read regarding P-GP ? Some people take it very far with Loperamide.


    I don't do or ever have done anything about this P-GP ?? (except take ALOT). Nothing fancy, just took them and they worked and like a good addict, tried more. Great advice, really, thanks. Actually, my goal - after 3 tx's in 3 years - had finally become maintenance. I'd heard good things about suboxone and figured it would work, and just stay on that, perhaps gradually medically detox outpatient down the road. So I got to the beginning of w/d from loperamide (the subox folks thinks it's rx opiates) and started taking the subox. It relieved my physical symptoms, but I still felt wicked cloudy mentally. I stopped the subox and went back to loperamide, and I want to try again this time going longer between the 2 medicines - and perhaps increasing the subox. Here's the caveat. The subox folks think I'm on it (no positive urines). So all this is done - again - on my own. Yeah right, my best thinking got me here..........
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    #23
    addiction is such a personal problem, for anyone who thinks this girl should not be on suboxone honestly its none of your business, she had said she was addicted also to her pain medication and many people get on suboxone for that reason, if you think your addiction is bigger etc well thats your belief, i personally wouldnt have suggested at first suboxone but if she cant stay clean and ends up going back to her pain killers that is up to her to decide as well as her doctors, i am sorry i just get mad at people who like to compare there addiction with someone else's. maybe if suboxone was out yrs ago when i first started getting addicted to medication i might have not continued on and stayed in the life style i did, from my understanding suboxone was also created to help people with pain medication addictions not just people who use heroin,

    to you ksflorida the only thing i would advise you now is not to go to high on your suboxone and get the help you need, goodluck if you need someone to talk to i am here
    ashla
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    hmm 
    #24
    Bluelighter manic_panic's Avatar
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    If you have nothing valuable to add to the thread, than please dont post. There are more constructive ways to get your point across... Consider this a warning. (unknown)
    Last edited by Unknown; 23-05-2009 at 01:52.
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    #25
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    It's understandable why you'd want to get on maintenance, however, if you have a problem with loperamide, do you think quitting methadone or buprenorphine is going to be any easier?
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