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Kratom Withdrawal

Im thinking of getting some stem and vein in to help reduce the length of the PAWS type symptoms i tend to get when w/ding from kratom. I was reading on Erowid that it acts as an antagonist and agonist so can help reset your chemistry back to normal more quickly. Ive been through this about 3 times already, the physical side isnt too bad atall, just the psychological side. The low moods, the low motivation, the long days, the boredom, (probably why i started taking it in the first place)took a month to lift last time......

Anyone else had positive results from stem and vein?
 
I've had luck with stem and vein in the sense that I feel effects from it but I just end up hooked on the stem and vein forever and still get crazy rls if I stop the stem powder of course a few spoonfuls calms my twitches nicely!

Ymmv of course I think I have slightly odd biochemistry as kratom rls is worse than kicking any other subztance including oxycodone o_O
 
I can see how that could easily happen. Apparently you dont really get any kind of high or buzz off stem and vein, so im thinking it could be useful purely as a tapering method. I quit cold turkey the last 3 times, im currently on ~10 tsps for around 4 months. Ive nothing to loose by trying it i guess (except the money) so will give it a go. Anything that offrees any chance of speeding up recovery time is worth a shot in my book.

Here's an account of someone on Erowid having success with stem and vein.

THE METHOD:

With a habit such as mine or something similar (I imagine this would work with a habit up to about 18g daily). The first step is the preparation that one needs to do before quitting because cold turkey can be difficult and it can be avoided. You will need about 1-2oz of your choice of plain leaf kratom depending on your habit. You will also need about 10-20g of phenibut (buying bulk powder and either mixing it with water or making capsules is the most economical) as well as another 1-2oz of STEM AND LEAF kratom powder, this is a type of kratom that will really aid you in the process of getting your mind and body back to normal.

Day 1: The first step is to cut your usual dosage in half so for me this was about 8g of plain leaf, boiled in water, strained and drank at night. I still got quite a buzz from this and I slept well that night and of course no withdrawal symptoms.

Day 2: Reduce your dosage from the previous day by 2g, so for me my dosage went from 8g to 6g. Again, slight buzz and I was able to sleep with no symptoms.

Day 3: Stick with the same dosage, for me it was another 6g.

Day 4: Cut your dosage by another 1g, so I took 5g in tea that night, but I also took 1g of stem and leaf kratom in capsules. I was still able to feel some effects from the kratom and I was again able to sleep.

Day 5: I was just about out of kratom this time so I was only able to take about ~1.5g of plain leaf. (If you wish to take 2.5g on day 5 then 1g on day 6, that would also be beneficial but I didn’t have to do this)

Day 6: I was completely out of plain leaf kratom at this point and all I had was a fair amount of phenibut powder (this comes in handy later) as well as 56g or so of stem and vein kratom. I was feeling some cravings that day and I took 12g of stem and vein kratom in capsules.

*** While this sounds like I was going backwards on my taper, stem and vein kratom has opioid antagonists and agonists that are different from regular kratom leaf or powder and due to this, it can help to reset the body’s neurotransmitters faster than cold turkey. ***

Day 7: I took another 10-12g of stem and vein, but not feeling any high or relaxation from it. I’m confident that it was still doing it’s job.

Day 8: The final day that I had any kratom at all, I took the last of my stem and vein kratom. This was about 12g, again not feeling much of an effect but I think it was still doing it’s job. That night, I really wanted to get a buzz and needed something to calm me down so I smoked some cannabis mixed with a little bit of synthetic cannabis.

Day 9, Day 1 w/o Kratom: No kratom, no withdrawal symptoms but definitely some cravings after not getting high for 2 days. Maybe I had a little trouble sleeping but I again smoked cannabis that night.

Day 10, Day 2 w/o Kratom: I was expecting to wake up in full withdrawal that morning, but I woke up and felt completely fine physically however I was feeling some mental effects such as anxiety (this I deal with in my everyday life as well without withdrawal) and some depression (another thing that I sometimes deal with anyway) I believe I had class that day and just before I took a capsule of phenibut, this was roughly 1g.

Day 11, Day 3 w/o Kratom: I woke up, I didn’t feel much w/d. Runny nose, yawning as well as some sweating. However, this was all very very mild! I went through my day of school with only some mild depression during my first class. But then after my first class, I took another phenibut capsule, again 1g. This made me feel just about normal. And then another 2 hours later I took another 1g capsule and the normal feeling continued. I had some trouble sleeping that night, and woke up much earlier than normal and felt wide awake.

*** Another reason that phenibut really helped me was because it completely removed all cravings for kratom and made me feel more or less content without it, and I am aware that almost everyone feels the effects differently so just be aware of this if planning to use it ***

Day 12, Day 3 w/o Kratom: This is the third day with completely no kratom. Again, waking up with no w/d symptoms! This really surprised me as it usually takes at least two days for one to feel kratom withdrawal symptoms so I was almost sure that I was going to be dope-sick that day but I wasn’t. No phenibut that day but synthetic cannabis was smoked to relieve almost all anxiety and removed some cravings. I did have some trouble sleeping that night and woke up once and it took about an hour to fall asleep again.

Day 13, Day 4 w/o Kratom: Again, woke up feeling just about fine but just a little sweaty. The anxiety was fairly low but taking 1g of phenibut removed that and made me feel very normal.

This is where this story ends as I received some more kratom. But I was able to stay completely clean for 4 days and I felt hardly anything in terms of withdrawal.

To sum it up the dose schedule goes as follows:

*** Purchase some stem and vein kratom and ensure you have enough plain leaf kratom to finish the taper ***

Day 1 of taper/quitting process: 1/2 of normal dose (8g)
Day 2: 1/2 of normal dose - 2g (6g)
Day 3: Same as previous day (6g)
Day 4: previous day - 2g (5g)
Day 5: 1.5-2.5g
Day 6: 12g of stem and vein kratom
Day 7: 10-12g of stem and vein kratom
Day 8: 12g of stem and vein, last day of kratom
Day 9: no kratom, sleep aid if necessary
Day 10: 1g of phenibut, sleep aid if necessary
Day 11: 1-2g of phenibut depending on tolerance, sleep aid if necessary
Day 12: .5g to 1g phenibut if needed
Day 13: .5g to 1g phenibut if needed
Day 14: phenibut may not even be needed but use sparingly
Day 15: 5th day without kratom should mean that the body is just about back to normal and one may be able to go throughout the day unaided.

Dose phenibut as needed to combat anxiety as well as cravings and potentially aid in sleep but keep in mind that tolerance is possible with phenibut so try to limit the amount of intake as well as the number of days in a row (2-3 days on 2-3 days off seems fine but if keeping under 1g a day then there is some leeway, just be smart)

This schedule should definitely aid in quitting kratom and greatly reduce the discomfort of quitting.

I wish you all best of luck and one day at a time!

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95501
 
I've had luck with stem and vein in the sense that I feel effects from it but I just end up hooked on the stem and vein forever and still get crazy rls if I stop the stem powder of course a few spoonfuls calms my twitches nicely!

Ymmv of course I think I have slightly odd biochemistry as kratom rls is worse than kicking any other subztance including oxycodone o_O

That's quite typical actually... myself and others I know experience worse RLS from kratom withdrawal than from any other opiate. I get it so bad that I get restless ARMS as well as legs... laying bed thrashing my entire body, it's maddening. The only thing that is easier about kratom withdrawal over poppy/heroin/oxy withdrawal (the other ones I have experienced) for me is that it only lasts 5-7 days, and I get less severe PAWS from it.

Phenibut helps for sure but it's also addictive so be careful. It seems to help with kratom withdrawal more than it does with other opiate withdrawals.

I used to be so addicted to kratom that I would start feeling withdrawal 6 hours after my last dose... I'd dose right before bed and wake up at 5-6am, kicking and sweating, and take more just to sleep a couple of more hours.
 
Well, I'm past the 72 hour mark since I've last had kratom, and for the most part, it is bearable. I have been taking 15-20 grams of kratom once daily for the past 9-10 months, and before that used it 3-5 times a week for about a year with breaks here and there. The withdrawals aren't that bad, at all for me. I have found that a potent batch of kava root is a great ally for the RLS, depression and insomnia.

I think that some people in this thread need to make it very clear that there is a distinction between withdrawals from plain leaf kratom and from kratom extracts. Kratom extracts can cause a dependence that is just as difficult to break as moderately strong opiates. Yet, plain leaf kratom will create a rather weak dependence, especially if it is faithfully taken only once a day. The main reason why plain leaf kratom is most forgiving, is because its alkaloid profile is rather high in opiod and NMDA antagonists, while kratom extracts tend to be very low in opiod and NMDA antagonists. One can tell this is so if they take a lot of plain leaf. There is a ceiling effect with plain leaf, such that one doesn't get a pleasant euphoric/mood-lifting effect past a certain point, and that is partially due to a saturation limit of mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine at the mu- and delta- opiod receptors, mitraphylline's effects as a NMDA antagonist which has a tendency to lower one's tolerance to the mu and delta opiod agonist effects of mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine, AND because of Corynantheidine's opiod antagonist effect, which ultimately is what limits the saturation point by which mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine can reach with mu- and delta- opiod receptors. On the other hand, if one takes extracts like UEI, FST, among other legitimate extracts, the ceiling effect is very high, and indeed, one will feel very high. Further, if one sticks to just extracts, they will find that it is very difficult to maintain a certain level of inebriation with a consistent dose, day after day, and they will keep taking more and more. Therefore, everyone should avoid taking kratom extracts daily as much as possible. If anything is going to get kratom banned, it will be the extracts.

To alleviate withdrawals, one can do more than just consume kava root. I highly recommend that a person withdrawing from kratom exercises, a lot. This will stimulate endorphin production, and can encourage endogenous endorphin pathways by which the body regulates pain. Further, one should obviously eat healthy, and eat often, as it will only hasten recovery. Finally, a person withdrawing from kratom should try to read extensively, and train oneself in meditation. Reading will strengthen one's concentration, and meditation will benefit from that increased concentration and combat the insomnia by which one suffers the most. If a person could sleep, withdrawal would be much more manageable. So, above all, one should always focus on ways by which one could sleep better, even if that means one would have to take diphenhydramine, kava, doxylamine succinate, valerian root, melatonin, alcohol (try to limit this to once every 2-3 nights), among other tools.

Finally, withdrawal is only as hard as you make it. I have seen proof of that from people that have been in abrupt discontinuation withdrawal from long-term benzodiazepine "therapy," and they still went to work, and tried to keep a smile on their face. The human mind is capable of tremendous things, and one should never discount the option that there are different approaches to one's suffering. Some approaches can annihilate a person's connection to it, and as a result, limit the affect the suffering has on the individual. Subjective suffering is measured by a constantly changing yardstick that is partially dependent on one's genetics (some people are blessed to not have ever experienced withdrawal despite being in a situation that would guarantee it for others) and mostly dependent on one's ability to cope with suffering. Something to keep in mind.

GREAT advise! thanks a lot! Best advice I've read so far regarding kratom withdrawals, specially when you highlight the need to sleep, to dedicate and concentrate our efforts to sleep

I just want to add that methoxetamine, dxm or ketamine might help with pain and boredoom during the day, while cannabis indica, consumed orally, as in a cake or milkshake, can be invaluable to sleep. It helps me a lot to sleep.
 
That's quite typical actually... myself and others I know experience worse RLS from kratom withdrawal than from any other opiate.
I used to be so addicted to kratom that I would start feeling withdrawal 6 hours after my last dose... I'd dose right before bed and wake up at 5-6am, kicking and sweating, and take more just to sleep a couple of more hours.

yep, quite typical... i bet many readers agree with you and know first hand what you mean
 
I want to thank everyone for their support and advice on how to get off Kratom. I have had a 5 year history of opiate use, with the last 6 months being mainly Kratom leaf and the occasional hydros if I can get my hands on them. I go through about 8 ounces a week, way to much and now im on my first day of withdrawal once again. Regrettably I ordered another package and it will be here tommorrow. I wish I had the motivation to really stop. I think ok I can do this and then get about 24 hours into it and break down and order more. From what every one is saying the major withdrawal lasts anywhere from 2-10 days is that an accurate timeline? I guess Im just an addict and feel better on the stuff. Its legal as of now in my location but im sure will be illegal soon and just need to set my mind to take the heat for 2-10 days and get my life back. I just want to thank all posters on here for the support and experiences that everyone shares, I definitely know that I'm not alone.
 
Yeah the symptoms of withdrawal tend to cycle for me. The first day builds up with anxiety and feelings of cold. I usually don't have a ton of trouble sleeping this first night, at least until close to waking time when dreams become more apparent and uncomfortable. Though I'll admit it still definitely isn't the best sleep of my life. The second day I wake up in full-blown withdrawal with hot and cold sweats, mood swings, restlessness and skin crawling, a weird sort of malaise feeling that is terrible, the shits, and other usual opiate symptoms. The restless legs becomes worse over the next day or 2 before tapering off. The third or fourth day the physical starts lessening for me but the mental gets worse, particularly anxiety and depression. The anxiety is different from the anxiety on the first couple days though. The first couple of days it's more like a sharp in my gut anxiety. The third or fourth day and beyond it goes from my stomach into my chest, feels more like a despondent anxiety, with heart palpitating, etc. It's weird. The depression is horrific. Almost suicidal. This is just for me. This anxiety and depression comes and goes and is variable in intensity (but always present to some degree) over the next 2-3 days maybe. Maybe 4. After the 7th day, the worst is over, but I still feel really shaky and restless for the next week or so. After that, it gets better over the course of another week or 2.

After a month you should be fine... UNLESS, other opiates were in the mix. Thanks to my intertwined oxy habit from earlier in the year and beyond, at 2 months clean I STILL wasn't feeling myself (mostly the burning skin crawly feeling in my legs, along with mild generalized anxiety and some wacky anger/irritability issues) and ended up succumbing to Kratom again. Of course this is all just my subjective experience. Now I am stocking up on some gabapentin and am preparing for yet again another withdrawal. Gabapentin really helps, along with other ingredients from the Thomas recipe. Immodium helps the physical symptoms, but it can prolong the withdrawal, so be prepared to taper that too a little if you use it. Phenibut works but I wouldn't use it for more than a day or 2 without taking a 3 day break before using it again, so choose those days wisely if you do use it. A multivitamin, fish oil and extra magnesium can never hurt.
 
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Holy god this is horrible! 65 hours in and it's torture, i would confess to 9/11 if this would stop!
my doses lapsed so i just got done writhing around again. here's my recipe to minimize the hell;
imodium a.d.
kava (lots!)
Cannabis (i'm from denver, LEAGAL

Wild lettuce & passion flower tea
4 or 5 showers per day
i knew this would be hard but my god, who would think a legal herb would cause this much hell. is it better to have someone you love near? i'm alone and maybe that's better. help, any advice on how to beat this is desperately needed
 
Is it really that bad for you?

I must have gone through Kratom withdrawal close to 50 times (UEI too) as I always ran out. It sucks, but I just grin and bear it for a week. It's no more than 1/3 of what you get when you quit painkillers, in my opinion.

Anyway, just hold on and the aches will subside and the depression lift. A lot of Loperamide and maybe some benzos would help (Don't overdo the Loperamide, I was hospitalised for it with 50% kidney failure last summer and nearly ended up dead or on Dialysis).
 
I recently managed to kick my 10 years kratom and poppy pods habit. It was not a walk in the park, but i managed it thanks to methoxetamine in the mornings (1 to 3 doses, maximum of 10 milligrams per dose, and never taking the last dose after 2pm, as it would affect my sleep otherwise), wild dagga in the evenings and massive doses of cannabis indica (orally) to sleep a bit.

10 days after having my last kratom dose, i was feeling miserable with the post acute withdrawal symptoms, which were basically strong restless legs and consequent insomnia... i was sleeping 2 hours a day, if i was lucky... some nights i didn't sleep at all... i was feeling so depressed and hopeless that i was considering suicide more often than not

in a desperate last intent, i tried mucuna pruriens, aka velvet beans... i didn't feel much the first morning i tried them... neither the second... but on the third day, i felt better... i felt a clear reduction of my restless legs severity, and that night, i slept 7 hours uninterruptedly, i woke up feeling fresh and rested, with energy and motivation to do things!!! I felt like i had turn around a corner

that was about 2 weeks ago. I haven't had any opiate till then and i feel fine. I feel like myself again. I keep taking a mucuna bean a day (i just crack it open with a hammer, powdererise it with the pestle and mortar and mix the powder with a glass of milk, first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach). I am also taking celastrus paniculatus seeds (contain choline or a choline precursor)
I still use some cannabis indica to sleep, but just a fraction of what i used to use while withdrawing
 
damn.... I tried kratom ONE time when I was withdrawaling from a small fentanyl and heroin binge I had like 2 summers ago.. It was some pretty weak stuff. People actually get addicted and withdrawals from this stuff???!!! hahahaha.... Seriously guys, You don't know what pure agony and suffering is untill you have had the W/D's from an IV heroin habit, and your connect is out of town for 3 days. Does kratom withdrawal leave you on the bathroom floor in the fetal position in a pool of your own diarrhea shit with goose bumps and throwing up all over yourself?

I've withdrawn off any opiate or opioid you can name, including heroin, and I'll still not be so pigheaded as to belittle someone's withdraw. On that note, withdrawing off of Kratom is rough. It's a different kind of withdraw then Heroin or Oxy but it's just as awful in it's own way because withdraw is always awful.
 
Kicking kratom again after another few months on, still using small amounts of codeine, but really reduced that to about 200mg a day, couldn't face WD from both at once.

Had to ration last of my stem powder yesterday, so starting with nothing today. Worst of it at the moment is the feeling cold despite high room temp and the yawning, but partly the yawning is because I've been working so much and not sleeping and don't think the kratom has been helping with the sleeping at all.

In one sense the signs are good, kratom always seems to mess with my sexual function and I've barely been able to reach a climax except every few days - today I've been developing the withdrawal hair trigger hardon it's one of the few things I look forward to during WDs - am using the Easter weekend in Uk to get through it so also have rare chance of not doing much for a few days except reading and a porn binge....
 
The worst thing is the almost crippling emotional pain - like every loss you've ever felt comes rushing up and hits you like a sledgehammer cracking tears from your eyes :-(
 
I am sorry to hear that. Withdraws makes us so depressed and yet physically sick.
 
Has anyone found any natural supplements or other remedies for depression and fatigue that comes with the WDs that allow you do be productive without any opiates. Could california poppy extract be of any use?

Also, while tapering, is there any point to taking very small doses like, say 1/4 teaspoon which obviously wouldn't get you high but can such a small dose do anything for WD in your experience?

Been taking 2 tsp powdered leaf (unenhanced) 3 times per day sometimes for for a couple consecutive weeks after a few months of on and off and finding myself completely useless, depressed and angry after maybe 24 hours of not taking it.

Cold turkey is not always an option for me due to situations at work where I need to be performing to my max mentally and sometimes physically

Thank you in advance :)
 
Has anyone found any natural supplements or other remedies for depression and fatigue that comes with the WDs that allow you do be productive without any opiates. Could california poppy extract be of any use?

Also, while tapering, is there any point to taking very small doses like, say 1/4 teaspoon which obviously wouldn't get you high but can such a small dose do anything for WD in your experience?

Been taking 2 tsp powdered leaf (unenhanced) 3 times per day sometimes for for a couple consecutive weeks after a few months of on and off and finding myself completely useless, depressed and angry after maybe 24 hours of not taking it.

Cold turkey is not always an option for me due to situations at work where I need to be performing to my max mentally and sometimes physically

Thank you in advance :)

Not found anything to date. I find tapers don't work for me, it's like having a full bar of chocolate, and just taking a nibble then expecting to be able to wrap it back up and leave until later. Chocolate - or opiates - don't last long when I have them around, unless I know I'm going to quit and a situation is going to arise where I have no supply, which results in a very short taper with what I have left. I guess everyone's body chemistry and responses are slightly different, so maybe you'd get some comfort out of a 1/4 teaspoon, or maybe it would just make you crave more so I guess you could just give it a try.

I am in the same situation with work - I just cannot afford to be "useless, depressed and angry" at work so I feel for you on that. Exercise does help me, but that's out of the question the first couple of days at least!

I had a very bad night - I was feeling OK, and actually got off to sleep, but woke a few hours later with the old familiar restless legs - I had to get up and pace the house must have been a 100 times just to get a few mins of comfort at a time and must have eventually drifted off at some point. The first time I kicked kratom that went on for days but more recently it's worn off quicker so am keeping fingers crossed.
 
Not found anything to date. I find tapers don't work for me, it's like having a full bar of chocolate, and just taking a nibble then expecting to be able to wrap it back up and leave until later. Chocolate - or opiates - don't last long when I have them around, unless I know I'm going to quit and a situation is going to arise where I have no supply, which results in a very short taper with what I have left. I guess everyone's body chemistry and responses are slightly different, so maybe you'd get some comfort out of a 1/4 teaspoon, or maybe it would just make you crave more so I guess you could just give it a try.

I am in the same situation with work - I just cannot afford to be "useless, depressed and angry" at work so I feel for you on that. Exercise does help me, but that's out of the question the first couple of days at least!

I had a very bad night - I was feeling OK, and actually got off to sleep, but woke a few hours later with the old familiar restless legs - I had to get up and pace the house must have been a 100 times just to get a few mins of comfort at a time and must have eventually drifted off at some point. The first time I kicked kratom that went on for days but more recently it's worn off quicker so am keeping fingers crossed.

I've been having some luck the past couple days taking 1 to 1.5 teaspoons (instead of my usual 3-5 teaspoons) 3-4 times/day but sometimes before bed I do find myself craving more.

I've been finding 1 teaspoon in the morning, and 1.5 teaspoons in the afternoon and evening to be just the right amount to give me enough energy and peace of mind to function at my best without getting me euphoric or high but only time will tell how this works or how much lower I can take it. I admit I do like to sometimes take a nice big dose a few hours before bed but the past couple days I haven't felt the need for that.

I'll be trying to exercise and meditate more often as well and I'm also trying to find a counselor who can help me deal with the underlying depression and anxiety that is largely the root cause of my self medication in my case. I'm prescribed clonazepam and lexapro for these conditions and it helps but its never enough. Bumped my lexapro up to 20 mg from my regular 15 so that may help as well.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I will keep updating my status on this thread for the benefit of anyone else who may be in a similar situation but like you said individual body chemistry and response varies from person to person so a large part of this is always going to be trial and error.

One BIG thing thats been helped me is cutting out caffeine entirely. Drastically reduced my anxiety levels and subsequently my need to self medicate. Thanks again for answering my question and sharing your story. I wish everyone here the best. :)
 
I've been having some luck the past couple days taking 1 to 1.5 teaspoons (instead of my usual 3-5 teaspoons) 3-4 times/day but sometimes before bed I do find myself craving more.

I've been finding 1 teaspoon in the morning, and 1.5 teaspoons in the afternoon and evening to be just the right amount to give me enough energy and peace of mind to function at my best without getting me euphoric or high but only time will tell how this works or how much lower I can take it. I admit I do like to sometimes take a nice big dose a few hours before bed but the past couple days I haven't felt the need for that.

I'll be trying to exercise and meditate more often as well and I'm also trying to find a counselor who can help me deal with the underlying depression and anxiety that is largely the root cause of my self medication in my case. I'm prescribed clonazepam and lexapro for these conditions and it helps but its never enough. Bumped my lexapro up to 20 mg from my regular 15 so that may help as well.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I will keep updating my status on this thread for the benefit of anyone else who may be in a similar situation but like you said individual body chemistry and response varies from person to person so a large part of this is always going to be trial and error.

One BIG thing thats been helped me is cutting out caffeine entirely. Drastically reduced my anxiety levels and subsequently my need to self medicate. Thanks again for answering my question and sharing your story. I wish everyone here the best. :)

Thanks for the update! It's going in waves here, I made it out of the house earlier, had to bank some cash as the banks are closed on Monday - it was quite a challenge getting there and back... Still yawning but not sure if it's the lack of sleep or WD at this point, feel totally drained.

ETA (Sunday): Didn't get much sleep but at least the RLS is starting to subside...
 
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Am having a bit of a weird time. The kratom I've been taking recently seemed different from other kratom I've used in the past - I was only using stem powder, but found it to be more than enough to get a buzz off, and indeed I couldn't take much more than a tablespoon of the stuff without getting "overdose" type effects such as nausea and shakiness.

Anyway, the latest kick has seemed to be going on longer than usual, with spikes of anxiety. Times I've kicked kratom before, I'd be able to go for a short run by day 3, but not this time, was still feeling totally exhausted and not myself, very irritable, and starting to get joint pains (despite taking small amounts of paracetomol/ibuprofen with codeine). As luck would have it, I visited a friend who was relieving themselves of some tramadol, and so popped 150mg. A few hours later I felt totally back to normal, happy, energetic, motivated, exactly as I would if I'd taken a dose of kratom.

I know tramadol and kratom can be cross tolerant along with other opiates as they act on the same receptors etc, but it seems weird the tramadol had this effect and has raised the question in my head of whether the batch of kratom I'd been using was being laced with tramadol or a related compound, as it seemed way stronger than stem powder has any right to be, and the sudden alleviation of the WD symptoms by tramadol has made me a bit suspicious. Though of course it could just be that my body was happy to get any relatively strong dose of an opiate-like substance at that point...

Thoughts?
 
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