Bupe Buprenorphine Withdrawals

[dopiate]

Update 11:

32 days since i stopped buprenorphine. Almost all withdrawal symptoms have disappeared. My digestive system is still not 100% but it is improving. I would say energy is about 80-90% and I am still sneezing much more frequently than before. Overall I feel very good to excellent and my life has proceeded in the same direction that I had hoped it would. As i have said before, the freedom is inspiring and the removal of the skeletons from my cupboards has made me more self-confident (it is very surprising the tax that those things imposed on my mind).

My advice to anyone looking to come off buprenorphine: try and arrange a month long time where you can be free from responsibility and temptation. I had the luxury of staying at my parents house out in the country, I read a lot, worked outside if I felt so inclined, and tried to keep my mind occupied. I realize this is not a likely reality for everyone but it provided the space for me to live simply and focus on being positive. Additionally, I would take probably 3-6 months to taper down to minuscule amounts until they became almost benign. I would recommend loperamide for up to a week but I do think I experienced a second withdrawal after being on it for 2 weeks. Clonidine is extremely helpful for nighttime restless legs, and xanax sporadically if you have the luxury (i did not).

I may post again in a couple months but I am moving to another part of the country for a new job and will be occupied.

 

[Ashley]

Congratulations friend.

I'm in a similar boat, since earlier this year I have been through two 7 day detoxes and 4 weeks at a rehab facility for a daily buprenorphine (16-32mg/day) and benzo habit (..up to 50mg alprazolam/day). With inevitable drug use since getting out of rehab around 2-3 months ago now, I have now managed to avoid taking both heroin and Xanax daily and have only been using heroin (or codeine) once or twice a week. And now that my tolerance to benzos has dropped so dramatically; I get a nice result from 4-6mg instead of 10x that. Unfortunately, I still suffer mild withdrawals on the days that I don't use - though they're definitely placid in comparison to jumping off such a large dose of Subutex. At the end of the 4th week withdrawing from bupe, I was still sick. Diarrhea, can't sleep, funky body temperature, sneezing. I'm still suffering these symptoms now, but they're not too bad.

You said that after 32 days, it sounds like you're suffering much the same stage of withdrawal. I regret not tapering, though I was just fed up with being on maintenance and I don't regret making the snap decision to go cold turkey. I feel as though I have much more control/mental strength when it comes to drugs at this point in time. I can manage to keep my use to once or twice a week and I have much more respect for Xanax and friends after having suffered a large number of grand mal seizures and a brutal withdrawal. Also the realization that I usually wake up the next morning after getting out a script of 50x 2mg alprazolam with an empty Xanax bottle and an empty memory.

I'd really like to know at what point these physical symptoms disappear for you, as I really want to stop using heroin long enough to get back to some semblance of normality. I realize everyone is different, and the factors that dictate the length of withdrawal. How long were you taking buprenorphine for? I have started smoking cannabis again after quitting around 4 years ago now. It really helps distract from the lingering physical symptoms and mental restlessness, though the anxiety it helped exacerbate (which was the reason I quit - getting extremely paranoid/anxiety ridden) I feel that if I continue smoking things will get worse. And the amount of heroin I am using is small (roughly 100mg x 2 per week) - to give you an idea of where my tolerance has fallen to, for the first time in my opiate using days I can get a decent result from codeine (350-400mg) as opposed to it just barely working to hold me in an emergency in the past.

It'd be nice to know roughly how long these minor/fading physical symptoms stick around for based upon people's past experience. I'm not too worried about PAWS, just these damn sneezes, unsettled bowels, and poor sleep. I recall the attending doctor at the rehab said that these sleep issues and other physical problems can last up to 6-12 weeks.. Anyway, congrats mate! It's really good to hear, keep up the good work.

Ash.

 

[dopiate]

Congratulations friend.

I'm in a similar boat, since earlier this year I have been through two 7 day detoxes and 4 weeks at a rehab facility for a daily buprenorphine (16-32mg/day) and benzo habit (..up to 50mg alprazolam/day). With inevitable drug use since getting out of rehab around 2-3 months ago now, I have now managed to avoid taking both heroin and Xanax daily and have only been using heroin (or codeine) once or twice a week. And now that my tolerance to benzos has dropped so dramatically; I get a nice result from 4-6mg instead of 10x that. Unfortunately, I still suffer mild withdrawals on the days that I don't use - though they're definitely placid in comparison to jumping off such a large dose of Subutex. At the end of the 4th week withdrawing from bupe, I was still sick. Diarrhea, can't sleep, funky body temperature, sneezing. I'm still suffering these symptoms now, but they're not too bad.

You said that after 32 days, it sounds like you're suffering much the same stage of withdrawal. I regret not tapering, though I was just fed up with being on maintenance and I don't regret making the snap decision to go cold turkey. I feel as though I have much more control/mental strength when it comes to drugs at this point in time. I can manage to keep my use to once or twice a week and I have much more respect for Xanax and friends after having suffered a large number of grand mal seizures and a brutal withdrawal. Also the realization that I usually wake up the next morning after getting out a script of 50x 2mg alprazolam with an empty Xanax bottle and an empty memory.

I'd really like to know at what point these physical symptoms disappear for you, as I really want to stop using heroin long enough to get back to some semblance of normality. I realize everyone is different, and the factors that dictate the length of withdrawal. How long were you taking buprenorphine for? I have started smoking cannabis again after quitting around 4 years ago now. It really helps distract from the lingering physical symptoms and mental restlessness, though the anxiety it helped exacerbate (which was the reason I quit - getting extremely paranoid/anxiety ridden) I feel that if I continue smoking things will get worse. And the amount of heroin I am using is small (roughly 100mg x 2 per week) - to give you an idea of where my tolerance has fallen to, for the first time in my opiate using days I can get a decent result from codeine (350-400mg) as opposed to it just barely working to hold me in an emergency in the past.

It'd be nice to know roughly how long these minor/fading physical symptoms stick around for based upon people's past experience. I'm not too worried about PAWS, just these damn sneezes, unsettled bowels, and poor sleep. I recall the attending doctor at the rehab said that these sleep issues and other physical problems can last up to 6-12 weeks.. Anyway, congrats mate! It's really good to hear, keep up the good work.

Ash.

Well ash, congratulations on not being a daily user of opiates. I do think that your "chipping" with heroin isn't really helping your case much. I am not an expert and I haven't even been off opiates long enough to be giving advice. But, I think that the longer one goes without using any opiates, the better off one is. The pleasure/reward system that you are periodically invoking by using heroin isn't really a long term option of completely abstaining from opiates (if that is your goal). As they say, time heals all. If you go long enough, you start to forget what those feelings are like. I experienced this while being on suboxone for six years, I had forgotten what it was like to feel high. If anything, I can say I don't think using heroin periodically is helping your withdrawal symptoms.

I realize this was not at all your question, and in a way we all know this truth, even though it doesn't make abstinence any easier. I am at day 45 now and the nighttime withdrawal symptoms that plagued me have been reduced to a rarity (not non-existent though). The sneezing is down to about 2-3 times a day versus 10+ earlier. The most prominent symptom is my atypical digestive functioning. It has improved but it remains to be a notable effect.

I would say that my mental state is solid in that my desire to use opiates is very low, and over-ridden by my desire to avoid them. The issue is that there is a hole left by opiates: the dosing, the looking forward to a perceptible change (however small) in mental state, etc. I'm struggling to fill that hole a little bit and I think it ties into my point I made earlier in that my brain is still very addicted despite my desire to remain free of it. More time.

 

[laCster]

Get the dose down to .5 mg a day, then start taking .5 every other day for two or three weeks or loner if you want, then take .5 every two or three days after your past dose, like if you dosed on Monday, don't take anymore until Thursday...continue that for two or three weeks then cold turkey from there. I didn't experience any wd really besides a little anxiety and aches and insomnia by doing it this way.

Also, I combined 30mgs dxm, 50mgs hydroxyzine or 100mgs spy combined with the hydroxyzine, but if you can't get hydroxyin than benedryl works well too. Stock up on Aleve and also for aches too. I exercised a lot and ate spicy oods during my wd too. However, I was taking lyrica during the ed and I barely felt very slight wd with all the needs especially with lyrics, or eve gabapentin works. I also had didnt experience much discomfort at all cuz of these drugs and slowly tapering. What amazed me was that I was using high doses of heroin and oxy for two years straight and after that I was using suboxone daily for a year...
Good luck

 

[dopiate]

Update 13:

Its been over 3 months since I stopped using buprenorphine after 6 years of uninterrupted use. The nighttime withdrawal symptoms ceased around the 2 month mark, which was the most difficult lingering symptom. My digestive functioning is not normal even still and I'm wondering if it could be permanent.

I feel really good and I've been at my new job for 2 months. I think my favorite thing about not being on buprenorphine is that I don't have to pay attention to the time as much. While on bupe, I would constantly be waiting for my next shot (every 3-4 hours). It is pretty amazing to just be going through my day oblivious of the time or constantly looking forward.

I would say that being off bupe is everything I had hoped it would be while I was on it, and getting off of it was probably about as hard as I thought it would be also. I would like to point out that if you have been on bupe for a long time, it is really hard to picture yourself without it, and the road to being off of it seems so long and far away. You can be off of bupe, the benefits while on it are pretty minimal. I don't fantasize about my time on bupe, it was just a great tool for me to get my life in order. I still think about opiates but pursuing those thoughts seem like such a step back into the pain I had to go through to get here.

I wish I had more tidbits like this while i was considering coming off, so here it is: You can feel like you did before you started opiates, and it isn't as far away as you think it is. Everything you like while being on it can be had while off it, even more so.

MODS: I would like to compile my updates into one place. What would be the best format to do this in? New thread, blog, idon'tevenknowwhatelesethereis

 

[brutus]

^ Make a blog about it.

That's great that you feel like you did prior to opiates. I stopped bupe roughly 6 months ago and I agree that it takes some time to feel normal again, but that feeling is definitely worth all the pain and suffering.

 

[alleycat4714]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this site. In fact, this is my first post. I like how up-front everyone is on here. I have been on Subutex 8mg/day for a little over a year now. I noticed there seem to be quite a few people who also prefer to IV their dose. And here I thought I was the only one. We quit shooting dope only to shoot a dope substiute. It's ridiculous. One of the reasons I do it is that I remembered reading that when taken SL, the bioavailability is only about 30%, so my brain is really only getting around 2.4 mg. Is this true? At this point, I'm afraid that if I started to take it the right way again, it wouldn't be as effective. I apologize if I posted this in the wrong section; this site is still a little confusing to me. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I'm not comfortable talking about it with any of my friends and obviously not my doctor. Thanks!

 

[kadaj]

Update 3

I'm down to 64mcg/day in two doses. The drop rate has slowed a little as I get lower but I've been feeling pretty constant as far as w/d goes. The w/d is strange actually, I feel fine all day until after i take my night dose at 9:00pm and it is then that I feel considerable withdrawal which goes away when I take some loperamide.

I'm sleeping 8 hours a night and still have no urge to use. I would like to get some tramadol to use when I jump off completely but I don't want to go to a doctor and I don't have a reliable way to get it otherwise. I will continue dropping every 3 days or so until I get sufficiently low/run out of bupe. I'll post again in a few days. There isn't a lot of response to these posts but I will continue to do them for selfish reasons.

64 MCG?? W/D is a bitch, isn't it? I've been clean off full agonists for over 2 years but have been on subs for 2 years straight at 8mg/day up until 6 months ago when I dropped down to 6. 3 Months ago I dropped to 2 mg/day and now I am at 1 mg/day. I unfortunately like you have been injecting it. Does this reduce the half-life at all or because of the high bio/av make it just the same if not worse than taking it sublingually? I am stopping IVing in 5 days. I've done it in the past with minimal difference but never for more than a week bc I've always had a "thing for the needle".

Anyway I plan to reduce to 0.5mg/day for a week then doing 0.5mg every other day for 2 weeks. By that time I hope to drop to 0.25mg every other day. Now I understand why you had to keep titrating your dose to something like 12MCG (I saw your more recent post). I am very physically active and haven't had any problems so far in my taper process over the last 3-6 months. I know zero is a huge difference than even 12MCG though, especially being used to high bio/av. and using for multiple years. Does anyone have any suggestions on my taper plan? Especially after I plan to drop to 0.5 sublingually instead of IV. (I've always divided my dose by doing 2 shots a day for the last 2 years). I fortunately have extra Klonopins saved (prescribed to them, 2mg/day) I'm assuming this is one of the best benzos to help with w/d?

 

[kadaj]

Preface: If any mods want to tell me to stfu or go somewhere else, please do. I just have never read of an experience like mine and I think people could benefit from it, here or elsewhere.

Update 7
Well, one skipped dose turned into two. My last dose of buprenorphine was 12mcg IV 36 hours ago. I guess I decided to jump off and I'm going to roll with it. I feel no different than yesterday and I venture to say I feel better. I have had some short lethargic episodes but I haven't even yawned today. Keep in mind that during my normal use I couldn't go 6 hours without feeling considerable withdrawal.

It's possible I reached a dose that was so diluted or inactive that it made no difference, that is certainly how it felt physically. I have continued to take 20-25mg of loperamide and will reduce that every day until I'm taking none. I have to say everything about this taper has been mild and manageable. I hope it continues this way as this is a territory I haven't experienced in 8+ years (taking no opiates, except loperamide).

Why would any mod tell you to stfu? Your tapering down updates have been the most detailed thing I've ever read on here. Especially because our usage profiles are very similar (see my above post). Thank you for all of these updates I have been reading them for the past day and feel more confident if I do something like you did. I don't think I could do the 0.x mg/ml thing I just break down my films and dissolve the pieces in water, 4 1/2 more days to go on the needle then no more needles!! (Yes I throw them away each day so I can't reuse them). Wish me luck...

 

[laCster]

Day 1 without bupre

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Day 1 without bupre

Congrats, man. How ya' feeling and what dose did you hop off at?

 

[kadaj]

Day 1 without bupre

Yes please details. I need some current stories/advice (refer to my posts above). Good luck man!

 

[joluvs2gro]

I've been taking suboxone for like 2 weeks and I am actually just glad that I can even take it without horrible precipitated w/d's.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I've been taking suboxone for like 2 weeks and I am actually just glad that I can even take it without horrible precipitated w/d's.

Yeah it's a good feeling once you get stabilized on it... just make sure you don't relapse and have to repeat the shitty process all over again.

 

[RoboRobot]

Man, Im about to do the drop off of Suboxone. Ive been addicted to opiates for years, these past 2 years straight my body was physically addicted to heroin, then I moved to Suboxone, 16mg a day, the 8mg, then lower and lower. I got dropped off my insurance so I didnt have a choice. Luckily, I still had a full script left. I now have a little less than half a strip left, and Im cutting little strips off of it, Id say between .25 and .5 mg's. I take it once a day, when I wake up. Still everytime I wake up I always feel really sick, sneezing a lot, digestion problems, headache, nausea, all that fun stuff. I keep hearing of PAWS now, and I dont want to get it stuck in my head but Im deathly afraid of being sick for weeks on end. I got on subs in the first place to have the most painless w/d, if ever such a thing. I would get really sick without dope, I was using a lot. Without insurance, I have a big enough problem dealing with my depression,anxiety and insomnia. 1-6 months of post-acute withdrawals sounds nuts. Any advice? I plan on getting some etizolam, I know benzo's help I just need to make sure not to replace one addiction for another. with heroin, i could easily take benzo's all days of w/d without as big of a risk of addiction, but with suboxone's w/d length that'd be impossible, and I know Id feel even worse once I stop taking them. I just started taking vitamins as well, I have some hydroxyzine and benadryl and melatonin. any personal experience with the etiz? do you think the PAWS is all in the head? One last thing, I could possibly be a bit of a baby about w/d's, I mean after so many times I really am disgusted with the feeling of it. I have enough problems right now, OF COURSE im gonna feel bad, but it almost seems like switching from subs to another full agonist opiate with a shorter half-life (like heroin) and once Im more accustomed to that again, titrate a bit and deal with w/d's. Id rather be sick for a week or so than months on end. I think thatd put me at big risk for relapse, on top of it. I have a hard enough time functioning these days. Oh, I also been taking DXM this last week, in any chance that's its preventing any gain of "tolerance" from the subs even though Im titrating lower. Now, I would love to keep titrating to mcg's, then days on days off, but Im dealing with half a strip of an 8mg here. well prolly like 3mg now. and even people taking subs for about a year like me dropping from .5 is really painful, I went 2-3 without it and it just got worse and it seems so for everyone else. Now, Im gonna try keeping the idea of PAWS out of my head, but what do you guys think? would switching to kratom and then titrating down off that be easier? is there any PAWS associated with kratom? kratom has a shorter half-life as well, correct? idk why with suboxone being a mixed antagonist it is so severe for the body dropping off it, I know it has a high binding affinity though and long half-life. I just havent really experienced too much of a PAWS from agonist opiates like heroin all the years ive used, (though soe nasty w/d's still) so is it just very unlikely for that? albeit unsafe, would a regular opiate just do me better to detox/wd off of? is kratom even worth the money? I dont have many funds to allocate, but I will be getting some etiz atleast. wish me luck and any info would be great thanks.

 

[Ashley]

I'm jumping off opiates tomorrow and the last opiate I used was IV buprenorphine. I consumed an 8mg Suboxone two shots. Now, I have had a habit for about five years, without any significant break longer than a week, maybe two. But after jumping off daily dosing of Subutex at the local clinic about March and never getting back on maintenance, I have been using a variety of different opiates to stave off the sickness. Heroin, every other day, oxycodone, bupe, codeine, PST. In other words, if I don't have something the sickness begins.

At the moment my tolerance is pretty low and when I do use, I don't use much. 0.2g of poor quality heroin, 120mg of oxycodone one or twice a fortnight. These days if I IV'd 1-2mg of bupe, it would make me feel totally better, it would hold me. I could quite easily go maybe 1-2 days without a dose, and start to get super fatigued, sore sore legs, mild diarrhea.

How long is this shit (withdrawal stage prior to PAWS) gonna last? I know that is an impossible question to answer but time travel is impossible as well!

P.S. I do have around 25 x 5mg diazepam, 300mg oxazepam and prescriptions for both Seroquel and Amitripiline. How should I stretch the benzos over the period?

Ashley.

 

[MsSoberRecovery]

First off.. sorry to hi-jack this thread... especially because it may be pretty old, but I'm hoping the discussion continues or you can tell me how the hell you are? And what your experience was. I'll paste from my radio-silent post:

These posts have gotten me through many a day & night. I first wanted to send a site-wide THANK YOU for making this lonely time, wayyy less lonely.

And yes, I should INSTEAD be looking for work to dig myself out of this disgusting hole of debt I've fallen in due to an extensive Roxy, Morphine, Hydro habit for the last three years.

I've lost my job, my friends, any social inclinations whatsoever. It's definitely been the lowest times of my life. But, I cannot take care of business until I take care of me.

I started on a Suboxone program three weeks ago. Since then I've taken 8mg's two to three times a day. My doctor, who's not familiar w/addiction AT ALL, became a Suboxone doc, I'm guessing, for the extra income. His office is relentless when there's an appt scheduled. Which is why, I didn't understand why he dropped me from the program saying I was supposed to come back a WEEK after induction, even though he prescribed a month's worth of Suboxone. No one contacted me. Very weird.

Most upsetting is, I'd only opted for two weeks worth of Sub strips, due to the disgusting cost of the d*mn drug. So that's that.

He cut me off, coldly.

I never felt euphoric on Suboxone. You guys should also know, I've never gone through really bad W/D because I've found a way to make the pills happen OR the two times it could have been bad, I've taken loperemide to get me through to the next time I could hit The Spot.

Even before my Sub induction, the lope kept me in LOW, LOW w/d's and I was only grumpy because I wasn't feeling "right"... I took the Sub and didn't have precip w/d's and maintained fine off the Sub doses (which I now realize were high) for the last two weeks.

Now, not having the $ to do another induction w/a new Doc, and being cut off from my Doc, it's come into my mind and spirit that I truly want to be free of any of this thinking or lifestyle. Even if he called me today, or I manipulated my way back into his good graces.

I am wondering if anyone has had the experience tapering with ONE (or similar) 8mg Sub strip to ONLY loperamide tapering successfully w/little to no W/D's.

I'm not looking for an easy way out, because I know there is none, but I cannot afford (financially or mentally or physically), one day, one hour, one minute of being non-productive. I'm a single mother of two with bills up the a$$, a great resume, and must apply for the next step in my career before I'm homeless. I'm already surrounded by pink notices & my utilities close to getting cut off. I had no right to maintain such an expensive habit.

So here goes:

Day 1 - no Sub at all, no withdrawls: long half life
Day 2- .25 of Sub, six loperamide, simply-sleep, no w/d's great sleep
Day 3 (today)- grumpy as H*LL, arguing w/my tween daughter, .25 of Sub, six loperamide, no physical W/D's except an accelerated heart beat (which could be coffee intake which I'll reduce).

I need help moving into day 4, 5, 6, and especially that 7th and 8th day I read are horrible.

Also any supportive or positive experience w/helping to keep PAWS at a bearable level using this method.

Anyone?

I appreciate it. I'm lonely.

 

[NeckHudson]

I feel the same exact way on subs.....I have absolutely no sex drive, and only take a shit once a week (only with the help of magnesium citrate and many stool softeners), and just feel lethargic all day. I also sleep 12+ hours a day. I am at 4mg, and hope to be on 2 in a week. I can't wait to get off bupe. I wonder why the constipation is so bad from bupe compared to other opiates. And even if the hottest girl in the world just pranced in my room and fucking started sucking my dick, it wouldn't even budge. I would prolly just be like "I feel like shit cause I can't take a shit and I just wanna sleep."

I know this is really old but I fuckin lolled hard. pranced.. hahah

 

[TimKT9]

I know this is really old but I fuckin lolled hard. pranced.. hahah

Haha, like stated above, i know this is old, but your sex drive on Bupe is lower than with other opiates simply because it is very strong and has a verrry long half life

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Haha, like stated above, i know this is old, but your sex drive on Bupe is lower than with other opiates simply because it is very strong and has a verrry long half life

Opiates like heroin are notoriously worse on your sex drive. A lot of people function pretty normally sexually on bupe, but even if not at normal levels, much better than being on a full opiate.