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Thread: The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread

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    The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread 
    #1

    Welcome to the Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread


    Psilacetin / 4-AcO-N,N-DMT / 4-Acetoxy-DMT / O-Acetyl-Psilocin



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    [original post:]

    So i've obtained some of this stuff..

    To my somewhat suprise, its not *exactly* like mushrooms - that acetoxy group does seem to make a difference (well it certainly does with 4-ho/aco-dipt/mipt/etc).

    I'm curious if anyone else has tasted this one yet and have also noticed a slight difference? (maybe its just me)

    The stuff is crazy stable though.. its the 1:1 fumarate salt - there is no psilocin in here, so technically, its just another analog right? I was worried about it degrading but it really does seem difficult to do (on purpose).

    Also, question. I wanted to see if I could convert some into psilocin by hydrolysis. I dissolved about.. ~4 mols of NaOH (2 mols for the fumarate then the acetyl group + extra) in a small cup of water (room temp) then dissolved however many mg's of 4-aco-dmt fumarate in there and stirred it.. let sit for a little over an hour. Drank it down.. *think* i noticed a difference - it came on much faster (could feel it in 10 mins) I think it was partially but not completely converted into psilocin..

    This a correct way to go about this? I'm NOT saying 4-aco-dmt sucks ohh it certainly does NOT!! I'd just like to personally see if there is any noticeable difference between that and psilocin. Maybe I should do the same but let it sit for an entire day? ... maybe add heat..
    Last edited by Delsyd; 21-12-2009 at 22:54.
     

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    #2
    Bluelight Crew Delsyd's Avatar
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    This would be very interesting to try and compare to the subjective effects of mushrooms.

    Does anyone know the legal status of this chem?

    POst back with more info on this gem as u experiment with it more.
     

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    #3
    What dosage did you try? And can you define the differences?
     

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Delsyd
    This would be very interesting to try and compare to the subjective effects of mushrooms.

    Does anyone know the legal status of this chem?

    POst back with more info on this gem as u experiment with it more.
    In the US the legal status is like most RCs, unscheduled but an analog. Since the exact dose of psilocin in a certain amount of shrooms is unknown, I suspect the differences would depend more on dose, set, setting, ect. than on the chems themselves. But I find all the 4-tryps I've tried very, very similar.
     

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    #5
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    As far as I know, this is not an analogue...it is an ester. And esters are specifically mentioned, controlled, thus since this is the acetate ester of psilocin...this would be illegal in the US.
     

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    #6
    I did this a while ago based on the shroomery's dosage of psilocin and just added psilocetin fumarate. The ester and the salt add to the weight of the molecule. The salt is pretty heavy so the dosage is quite a bit higher. This is obviously still a very rough estimate, but better than erowid's 8-20mg for a strong dose of psilocybin.

    Psilocin freebase MW: 204.3
    Psilocetin fumarate MW: 304.3
    Ratio: 1:1.49

    Level ..... Psilocin(mg).... Psilocetin fumarate(mg)
    1................... 4 ...................6
    2....................6 ...................9
    3 ..................11 ..................16
    4 ..................17.................. 25
    5 ..................22 ..................33

    Hope that makes some sense.

    I'm willing to bet that the onset is smoother than that of isolated psilocin, and that the MW ratio may not account for the difference in effect (you may need more to achieve the same peak plasma levels in the brain). This is only speculation ... as always work your way up slowly.
    Last edited by Dondante; 25-07-2006 at 20:08.
     

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    #7
    4-Aco-dmt is an ester of psilocin just like psilocybin, esters and salts of esters are specifically mentioned in the CSA. For example, The various fentanyls are for the most part esters of the same chemical, though it is inactive on its own. Esters are typically metabolised quickly into the original -OH group, though it is possible that the ester itself could be active, it should be able to get into the brain easier but its all just a guess.

    By the way, dont drink NaOH water, you arent going to get a ph of 7 unless something reacts with it, NaOH is incredibly bad for you to drink.
     

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    #8
    Well, I'll have a report on this one. This is probably my last trip for at least a few months so I decided to push the envelope a little. I'm going to try and repeat the conditions from the recent study on psilocybin induced mystical experiences linked below. It was 0.43mg/kg psilocybin so me and two friends are going with the equivalent, which is about 0.46mg/kg 4-AcO-DMT or 34 mg.

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...light=mystical

    I'll let you all know how mystical it is.






     

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    #9
    Bluelighter gloggawogga's Avatar
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    esters are specifically mentioned, controlled,
    esters and salts of esters are specifically mentioned in the CSA. For example, The various fentanyls are for the most part esters of the same chemical, though it is inactive on its own. Esters are typically metabolised quickly into the original -OH group, though it is possible that the ester itself could be active, it should be able to get into the brain easier but its all just a guess.
    You are correct about fentenyl but the mention of esters in the CSA is under the opiates section not the hallucinogen section.

    http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/...d_sched1.shtml

    So 4-aco-dmt would not be covered as an ester. It would be covered under the analogue act. Also, I imagine it would pretty much impossible to to make 4-aco-dmt without having some trace of 4-ho-dmt in it, which would make it illegal that way too.
     

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    #10
    Most rats around here do say its not exactly like mushrooms, so i dont think its just me.

    Anyone else tasted this one yet?

    Most people seem to think a dose of about 20mg = 3.5g mushrooms (almost but slightly different effects)
     

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    #11
    Well,I think it should be compared to an equal dose (by molweight) of 4-HO-DMT.semi-fumarat and not mushrooms.
     

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hugo24
    Well,I think it should be compared to an equal dose (by molweight) of 4-HO-DMT.semi-fumarat and not mushrooms.
    I think it's difficult to compare a 4-acetoxy tryptamine to a 4-hydroxy tryptamine. I believe that the pharmacology of 4-AcO-DMT is much more similar to 4-PO-DMT than 4-HO-DMT.

    Edit: part moved to thread in ADD.
    Last edited by Dondante; 31-07-2006 at 17:52.
     

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    #13
    So I tried this compound last night at 34 mg and it was very similar to mushrooms. It was a beautiful experience, but to be honest, I was somewhat disappointed. I may have built up a bit of a tolerance because this was my third trip in the last week and fifth in the past month. So please take that into account if you are working out a dosage for this substance.

    The come up was very gradual and almost unnoticable. The substance peaked at about 2 and 1/2 hours and lasted about 8 hours. It was slightly longer than a mushroom trip, but for me 34 mg was about equal to an 1/8 of cubensis (maybe even weaker?). I was with three friends at a big secluded park when it peaked and we watched an absolutely beautiful sunset. They took 30, 25, and 12 mg and the two that took 30 and 25 mg both said it was comparable to an eighth.

    My last three experiences have been with friends (one was with the gf) and I have decided that I definitely prefer tripping alone or just with my gf. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast, but overall I felt like the experience was just pure hedonism. It was enjoyable, but I wasn't getting much out of it and for the first time I got the feeling that I was abusing psychedelics. Maybe they have lost their novelty because of my frequent use, or maybe I have "gotten the message, and I need to hang up the phone" (at least temporarily). Either way, I don't really have an option since I'm starting medical school in a week. I will definitely try to keep up with BL, and I'm not at all retiring from psychedelics, but this will probably be a fairly long and needed break. I might even see if I can somehow use my medical degree to study psychedelics. If only there was more funding...

    In summary, 4-AcO-DMT fumarate was not too mystical for me this time. There were definitely some "holy moments" and I'm sure this could provide a very spiritual experience, but in general this time I just wasn't in the right state of mind.
     

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    #14
    i tried 30mg 4Aco DMT recently and thought it was exactly like 3-4 grams cubensis mushrooms.however its been a long time since i ate mushrooms but i liked it alot. i have been thinking about trying to smoke this chemical to see if it will produce any similar effects, any thoughts on this? not that it matters so much if it can be smoked or not, i just thought it would be worth a try,
     

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    #15
    No idea, it depends on the melting point of the compound.
    An other idea: Did anybody ever try to snort this stuff?

    BTW: I wonder that nobody, who tried alkaline ester hydrolysis, reportrd from a change in color. I'd suppose, the free indolol should quickly form colored quinones or polymers in alkaline solutions. But maybe I am wrong.
     

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    #16
    Yes snorting works.. and IV does too .

    about hydrloysis.. I have had a small amount of 4-aco-mipt (don't know if it was fb or salt) in a small water vial solution and within days it did turn dark brown.

    I wonder if putting some dh20 in a small glass test tube or similar, and a little 4-aco-dmt (NaOH dissolved in water first), and just kept heating it with an alcohol lamp? You think it would turn "blueish"?
     

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    #17
    What is a recommended dose for snorting? Much less than oral?
    I think you had any 4acomipt salt, and no fb, the fb should not be soluble in water, I think.
    I wonder if putting some dh20 in a small glass test tube or similar, and a little 4-aco-dmt (NaOH dissolved in water first), and just kept heating it with an alcohol lamp? You think it would turn "blueish"?
    ...I'd suppose so.
    Try it and tell me. I'm curious.

    Once a guy told me that the blue color from shrooms (oxidation products) can be converted into something colorless by the addition of vitaminC as antioxidant.
     

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    #18
    Anyone know about the solubility of this compound? Can it be diluted in everclear?
     

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    #19
    This stuff is frickin fantastic.

    Very smooth comeup.... the chemical seems to physically and mentally relax you before the trip really starts, and people have agrreed with me that this seems to cut back the anxiety that a mushroom trip would frequently have during the comeup.

    Seems like a very pure psychedelic to me.... a very high signal to noise ratio here.

    Put simply, I prefer it over DMT, shrooms, LSD, and everything else I've ever tried.

    8mg gave me a mild +3 with a pretty quick peak.
    12mg was only a little stronger wih a longer peak.

    Snorted it appears you only need like 1/3 of the oral dose. Not 1/2. Less.

    I have not felt the desire to take a larger dose than that, but other people have. Almost everyone agrees it is better than any shroom trip they ever had and a few of them had the best trips of their lives.

    Unfortunately I know me saying this will probably encourage people to do stupid things with this chemical. Oh well. It is what it is.
     

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    #20
    ^^It is amazing stuff. I kept wondering if I'd also taken some MDMA and forgotten about it because it felt so damn good. I want to make clear that I had an absolute blast with it, but had this sense of guilt near the end because of my recent frequency of use. Set and setting are so important.
     

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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by blue)dolphin
    This stuff is frickin fantastic.

    Very smooth comeup.... the chemical seems to physically and mentally relax you before the trip really starts, and people have agrreed with me that this seems to cut back the anxiety that a mushroom trip would frequently have during the comeup.

    Seems like a very pure psychedelic to me.... a very high signal to noise ratio here.

    Put simply, I prefer it over DMT, shrooms, LSD, and everything else I've ever tried.

    8mg gave me a mild +3 with a pretty quick peak.
    12mg was only a little stronger wih a longer peak.

    Snorted it appears you only need like 1/3 of the oral dose. Not 1/2. Less.

    I have not felt the desire to take a larger dose than that, but other people have. Almost everyone agrees it is better than any shroom trip they ever had and a few of them had the best trips of their lives.

    Unfortunately I know me saying this will probably encourage people to do stupid things with this chemical. Oh well. It is what it is.
    I am impressed that 8mg was that strong.

    Could you elaborate on 'why' or 'how' this was better than a mushroom experience?
     

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    #22
    Often,the pure chemical is better (says the chemist proudly to the natural-is-the-only-true-spiritual-experience camp )
     

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    #23
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    I'm really excited now about this one. Mr. Dolphin seems to always have similar reactions to these chemicals as I do....a word of approval from him is always a good sign to me.

    Next weekend I am going camping. Only two things worry me....will the snow hold off (yes, it snows this early in the mountains of Colorado), and how will I feel tripping on buprenorphine. It will be my first trip since getting off the pods. I guess all I can do is have an extra with me incase WD hits (psychedelics have made me go into WD before) and just hope for the best.
     

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by BreakingSet
    I am impressed that 8mg was that strong.

    Could you elaborate on 'why' or 'how' this was better than a mushroom experience?
    No nausea.
    Smoother comeup.
    The chemical is more relaxing on the body and mind.
    Visuals are slightly different than shrooms but only slightly.... I wouldn't call them better or worse but CERTAINLY better than any other "RC" I've tried. Only DOC is in the same ballpark as this one.

    4-aco-MiPT is crap compared to this stuff.

    Personally I only like to eat the BEST psychedelic I can when I choose to indulge these days, which is rarely. For me that means I will only be eating psilacetin these days, save the occasional LSD trip if the time and feel is right.

    For me and the people I know who have eaten it, this is basically tripping on shrooms minus everything that sucks about shrooms.

    peace
     

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    #25
    BlueDolphin, just to clarify, you've only taken in insufflated, right?
     

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