Why Socialism? By Albert Einstein (a must read)

[Formico]

Cogito eggo sum --- I think I am an omlette

 

[ebola?]

>>That notwithstanding, argumentum ad hominem prima facie is a bullshit 'fallacy'. The argument is inseparable from the person arguing it; if the argument is rebutted at the same time that the person arguing it is attacked for the sheer stupidity of their opinion, then what's the problem?>>

The attack is entirely extraneous to the rebuttal. If a team of monkies working on typewriters comes up with, by chance, a valid and true argument, it is still a good argument.

>>
It is in no sense a fiction. It is an objective, amoral benchmark by which behaviour can be measured. Most people can't even make a fucking rational and informed choice when they are buying a new DVD player but the mass-failure of individuals to act rationally does not denigrate the validity of it.
>>

How is the atomized rational actor an amoral, objective benchmark? The ends sought by even such a rational actor are socially determined, at least in part, as is the context in which such rational action occurs. The benchmark, then, has coded within it its own historical specificity.

Furthermore, if the vast majority of people fail to act rationally, what does such a rational actor tell us about empirical economies?

>>Everything else? If the models are mathematically optimised, anything that deviates from the model represents a reduction in total utility, output, or whatever.>>

But capitalism in practice cannot be mathematically optimized in a such a way. Furthermore, these types of mathematical models take as a given pre-existing power differentials between people and groups and the construction of wants via advertising. We cannot take these things as given if we want to speak of a just or even efficient economy.

>>All functions in the real world are empirically derived.>>

From what I've seen, the majority of economic functions are deductively derrived from a set of assumptions, usually those entailed by "perfect competition".

>>How do you think firms make predictions? They gather business statistics and perform econometric analysis on them, often using regression or more complex statistical methods, to derive models (functions) of various aspects of the business. There is nothing theoretical whatsoever about the notion of the simple cost, revenue, demand and supply functions. In reality, however, the models are much more complex than simple 1 variable linear functions.>>

Okay. This I will give you. However, when we begin to critique the economy from the standpoint of justice or overall efficiency, we then have to examine what these functions mean, beyond thier ability to predict what is most profitable for single firms. It is at this point that we run into our theoretical assumptions.

>>An asset or market has a given level of variability, or risk, irrespective of who measures it. A $5 billion holding of Share X is exposed to the same level of risk, measured by stdev or whatever the holder chooses, as a $5 holding. The magnitude of losses will differ greatly, but both holdings are subject to the same risk.>>

A billionaire investing millions risks little in terms of a potential loss threatening her lifestyle. Someone earning near the poverty line investing hundreds risks not being able to pay rent (she already cannot afford healthcare). Yes, mathematically, the risks are similar, but in practice, they are not.

>>but I sure as hell wouldn't be a little student socialist pimp on the basis of nothing more than 4 introductory courses and whatever biased, completely non-economic ideological drivel that a humanities lecturer taught me. But hey, whatever. Your life.>>

1. What is a socialist pimp?
2. Your idle and erroneous speculation about my academic background is of no consequence.
3. Ad hominems are frowned upon in this forum.
4. Mainstream economics, regardless of its pretensions towards being a natural science, is mired in its own assumptions and fulfills an ideological function. The very notion of non-ideological social science is a fiction to be wield in an attempt to gain power.
5. I never claimed to be an expert.

ebola

 

[katalyst^]

5. I never claimed to be an expert.

ebola

And you're certainly not. I'm not arguing anymore: mainstream economics will continue towards ever-closer approximations of pure capitalism, entirely undisturbed by the ill-founded criticisms of a first year sociology student

Like I said, continue on your merry way. Educated and informed criticism is for suckers, anyway.

 

[ebola?]

Wow.
That was truely a stunning rebuttal of the substantive aspects of my post. Feel free to come back if you'd like to point toward what you know of my educational history or point out that my criticisms are uneducated or ill-informed.

ebola

 

[vegan]

Who on earth would take on all that extra workload for purely altruistic reasons?

like you said, some people already do
but as you also said, are there enough of these people? we don't know

so we can look at it another way and think that anyone who has a need for personnal blossoming can't be satisfied by a factory work

i've worked 1 month in a factory. not really because i needed it, but because i wanted to know how it was
that's not a life
i won't do it again except if in extreme need for a short period
so i suppose that regardless of the salary, some people would be willing to study more to avoid a boring factory job (=for non altruistic reasons)

but how exactly do you quantify a doctor's work compared to that of a factory worker? If it can be quantified, at what point does the work of a factory worker and a doctor become equal?

why would we need to quantify them?
each individual could decide which he prefers in what quantity for what proportional salary

when it comes to working, one hour of work is one hour of work
and at the end of the day, the factory worker is at least as tired as the doctor, who at least had an interesting activity, which compensated for his investment in studies

(disclaimer : those are ideas rather than convictions)

Plus it's unfair to make assertions like that because you will never be put in that situation. How can you say you would do something like that?

well, if we can't make assertions we can't have much conversation

Would it be fair for a doctor and a worker to receive the same pay while the doctor must attend 10+ years of schooling and hard work? You tell me.

i know it would be fair for a doctor to have an interesting job while the factory worker repeat the same moves all day long every day of his life
i don't see the salary as the main reward

yea, and what profession are you?

i sell my body for crack

 

[katalyst^]

Wow.
That was truely a stunning rebuttal of the substantive aspects of my post. Feel free to come back if you'd like to point toward what you know of my educational history or point out that my criticisms are uneducated or ill-informed.

ebola

It is patently obvious that you do not properly understand the material you've encountered, and you are blazingly ignorant beyond that. Why would I argue with an overopinionated person who makes ridiculous assertions in each post? Your posts repeatedly show fundamental misconceptions and a confusion of theory in addition to a confusion between theory and reality.

To repeat the point ad nauseum, it doesn't matter what your opinions are, because I am repeating mainstream economics, and mainstream economics drives the world around. Plus I'll be starting at a top investment bank in about 35 days, so what the fuck do I care :D

 

[DarthMom]

oy. katalyst is quite arrogant and free with the ridiculous ad homs.

frankly, if someone was in doubt of ebola's intellectual capacity in your debate, your responses cured that.


should we be shocked that the poster angry over someones simple opinions against capitalism is a braggart with his supposed high income job? that is the great thing about the internet, we only care what you have to contribute and say that enlightens us, not how you pay your bills.

lets carry on with real discussion without the emotion of a 13 year old girl, please. i am here to learn a thing or two and you are ruining that.

 

[MethTheChef]

yea, and what profession are you?

Can you answer Vegan?

 

[Son of Samurai]

eggsist QUOTE]

Not to be mean or self righteous, nay not even a spelling Nazi but....


exist.

No snide or condescending remarks here just.....

exist.





Actually, looking at your signature maybe you could change it from "you can't spell drugs without a G" to "you can't spell exist with a G".