• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Natural NMDA antagonists

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yes, but we are talking psychoactive effects

and i am surprised 25mg does anything relative to the oral bioavailability...
 
glaucine feels pretty awesome
it can be depressing for some people be careful
i found 200mg to be effective for psychoactive effects
i bought an extract of glaucium flavum from a reputed ethnobotanical dealer it was not the hcl salt and they did not say how pure the extract wAS ONLY THAT IT WAS VERY PURE
 
I had a bad reaction to Celastrus paniculatus ended up in the ER. Bought the raw seed off amazon and ate amount equalivent to the size of a quarter ( the currency) couldn't sleep and and had trouble thinking wikipedia says it's dose dependent but I couldn't find enough info online about it so like an idiot i made myself a guinea pig dont know how close i came. wondering how many people have had adverse reactions to nootropics

[h=1][/h]
 
blueyedson: I am very sorry to hear that you required medical treatment after consuming Celastrus Paniculatus, I hope you have a timely recovery. I cannot find any other reports of hospitalisations caused by this plant (although I am in a rush, so haven't looked very hard), so I am sure it would be greatly appreciated if you could elaborate on the exact nature of your difficulties. In a sense, Bluelight is a library whose true value is not as a method of conversing with others, but as an archive of detailed information about a massive variety of compounds and plants. While a report of a bad drug reaction is useful (thank you for taking the time to do this!), a report with explicit details is always better.

Again, I wish you the swiftest of recoveries!
 
I had a bad reaction to Celastrus paniculatus ended up in the ER. Bought the raw seed off amazon and ate amount equalivent to the size of a quarter ( the currency) couldn't sleep and and had trouble thinking wikipedia says it's dose dependent but I couldn't find enough info online about it so like an idiot i made myself a guinea pig dont know how close i came. wondering how many people have had adverse reactions to nootropics

[h=1][/h]

I've seen this happen and experienced this myself as well. Celastrus is stoooooooong with even 5 seed pods . I offered some to my buddy, and he decided to eat about a tablespoon of seeds. He proceeded to get very confused and spun out. It isn't pleasant.

I kinda feel like it has mixed choline agonist and acetylcholinesterase inhibitor . You could see how that could get a little dodgy.
 
theanine has nothing to do with NMDA

honestly, im surprised so few people care about adding more to this very interesting thread. perhaps a new thread about the latest research chem of abuse is of more interest....
 
aescin said:
honestly, im surprised so few people care about adding more to this very interesting thread.

Most people don't care to post in threads when they lack novel information to provide. ;)

ebola
 
I've been using pure Huperzine A and it's pretty effective. Dosing is a bit of a bitch but once it's in solution it's golden. I'm using between 500ug-1mg out of a 100mg bag. It really isn't the ketamine-esque thing you're going for though. It's mostly about neuroprotection and it's affect is minimal in terms of actually feeling it.

I wouldn't mind a bit of Hodgkinsine though, seems to be the other side of Huperzine A. If they were mixed together, I think a nice euphoric feeling would be produced, mostly down to Hodgkinsine's opioid activity though!
 
^ in what way is huperzine a effective? from what i remember, it doesnt do much of anything and in high doses it eventually gives you irritable feeling which is not fun at all and it can last for many hours.
 
It's a neuroprotective agent. That's all. No psychoactivity whatsoever except in high doses as you described. Most nootropics are like this, if you hadn't noticed.
 
Huperzine-A is mainly an anticholinesterase, It DOES seem to bind within the NMDAr ion channel rather than as a competitive antagonist, or buggering around at polyamine/glycine sites. But I've tried it (at high end nootropic doses, without dissociative effects), as a nootropic, and I can more or less guarantee that the most pleasant effect of trying to take it to a dissociative recreational level would be SLUDGE, if not full blown nerve agent poisoning. A pukefest from multiple orifices one isn't even aware previously existed would be a definite extreme probability.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
DOI: 10.1002/jat.805
Journal of applied toxicology
The NMDA receptor ion channel: a site for binding of huperzine A.


Unless there are binding sites we know nothing of, then its within the channel/PCP site. Can anyone get the fulltext?
It seems to rule out glutamate1 and glutamate2 (low and high affinity glutamate sites), polyamine (what DOES the polyamine site do? control phosphorylation/dephosphorylation via protein kinases, and its not binding to glycine site either as I can see from the abstract.

I'd love to see the fulltext though, it would be interesting to try and develop a pharmacophore for this structural backbone that had less cholinesterase inhibitor activity and concentrated on finding psychoactive NMDAr antagonists.

I think the current compound, huperzine-A itself is a great nootropic, although galantamine, another anticholinesterase, although also an alpha7 NAChR agonist, providing an additional mode of nootropic action, increasing BDNF secretion amongst other things. Although I'll admit, BDNF, and Trk-b modulators of that kind are complex little fuckers at the best of times), but it IS a potent anticholinesterase, which are in effect, pharmaceutical nerve agents, and huperzine-A is active fully at 1-1.5-2mg at most, taking 2mg without building up a few hundred mikes a time is really likely to make you choke your GI tract up out through your eustachian tubes, its active in the microgram range, so I'd guess its actually MORE toxic, on a mcg/mg for mcg/mg basis than tabun and sarin. OD is treatable easily enough, but I've heard tales of heavy sweating, urination, lachrymation, keck-beshittance and some nightmarish sounding muscle spasms and SEVERE projectile vomiting+GI upset from large doses. Although how much will vary per person. I built up relatively fast to up to 5mg, and loved it, although still I will always like galantamine better
 
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It's not a vitamin because vitamins are VITal AMINes.. and Magnesium isn't an amine. It's not REALLY an NMDA antagonist. Sure it blocks the NMDA receptor channel as normal voltages, but that's part of its normal function, it's non-competative... it's like saying the inactivation gate of the sodium channel is a sodium channel antagonist.
Vitamin A is not an a amine.
 
It's not a vitamin because vitamins are VITal AMINes.. and Magnesium isn't an amine. It's not REALLY an NMDA antagonist. Sure it blocks the NMDA receptor channel as normal voltages, but that's part of its normal function, it's non-competative... it's like saying the inactivation gate of the sodium channel is a sodium channel antagonist.

Vitamin A is not an a amine.
What DL-ark said, none of the 6 (?) compounds that make up the vitamin a vitamer are amines or even contain nitrogen. "Vital amine" might be the ethymology of the word. As of today though vitamins aren't defined by their structure, but by their biological activity and the physiological role they play in an organism. A compound that is considered a vitamin for one species is not necessarily a vitamin for another species.
 
I'll just note that Bilz0r said this 9 years ago and has completed a biochem doctorate in the interim, so he might have moved on from and changed his position in this particular semantic debate; yes, the distinctions and points of overlap between "vitamin", "micronutrient", "supplement", and "drug" will be blurry and situationally variable as illustrated by borderline exemplars--this is just how words (and likely concepts in general) work. :p

ebola
 
I'll just note that Bilz0r said this 9 years ago and has completed a biochem doctorate in the interim, so he might have moved on from and changed his position in this particular semantic debate; yes, the distinctions and points of overlap between "vitamin", "micronutrient", "supplement", and "drug" will be blurry and situationally variable as illustrated by borderline exemplars--this is just how words (and likely concepts in general) work. :p

ebola
I'm sure he has and knows a hell of a lot more on the subject than me. Instead of directing this post to Bilz0r directly I just wanted to point out that vitamins not defined structurally, but functionally, so other readers would get the idea about this.

And yes, those terms blur, since micronutrients do not only refer to dietary minerals (dietary "elements"), but also include vitamins with more complex structures, while all essential (and non-essential) nutrients can be supplemented. None of these molecules are supplements by definition though since they only become such when we actually supplement them.
 
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I'll just note that Bilz0r said this 9 years ago and has completed a biochem doctorate in the interim, so he might have moved on from and changed his position in this particular semantic debate; yes, the distinctions and points of overlap between "vitamin", "micronutrient", "supplement", and "drug" will be blurry and situationally variable as illustrated by borderline exemplars--this is just how words (and likely concepts in general) work. :p

ebola
I'm sure he has and knows a hell of a lot more on the subject than me. Instead of directing this post to Bilz0r directly I just wanted to point out that vitamins not defined structurally, but functionally, so other readers would get the idea about this. In the end though those are just words which (in this case!) discrimination doesn't really aid in understanding how these compounds act in an organism. Especially our understanding of the term vitamin has sort of changed throughout time, since a lot of substances that were formerly considered vitamins aren't anymore.
 
Especially our understanding of the term vitamin has sort of changed throughout time, since a lot of substances that were formerly considered vitamins aren't anymore.

Really lol? I didn't realize that, what are some historic ex-vitamins?
 
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