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Dissociatives The Little & Dandy MK-801 Thread

kinetic said:
I read in a paper on the toxicity of ketamine that mk-801 has never been approved for study in humans, so if I could get a link to the studies you were talking about Bilzor I'd appreciate it.
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Well seeing as the were closed house studies, and especailly seeing as they were failures, Merck (thats how made it), tried to remove all references to it. You won't find any info on the trials on their site, and they never published the findings, but two relatively authoritive sites are which show that there were trials are:

http://www.windhover.com/contents/monthly/exex/e_2003900045.htm which states:
Johnson & Johnson’s Prosynap (lubeluzole), Merck & Co.’s Neurogard, better known as MK-801, and Upjohn Inc.’s Freedox, an anti-lipid oxidase, all proved either ineffective or toxic well along in clinical trials.
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and American Society of Consultant Pharmacists http://www.ascp.com/public/pubs/tcp/1997/apr/newdrugs.html

You see a reference to Dizocilpine as drugs in clinical trials

ALSO:

Originally posted by *TM-321*
What are the medical benefits of an nmda agonist then? Anestesia? Surely there are opiates that are much more effective and less lethal.
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A phenomina know as "Wind up pain", and in other neuropathic pains. As potential neuroprotectants...
 
you guys seem to be missing the really important point, if it's active in such small doses you could lay it on BLOTTER SHEETS :rolleyes:
 
kitchkinet said:
you guys seem to be missing the really important point, if it's active in such small doses you could lay it on BLOTTER SHEETS :rolleyes:
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But the difference between LSD and MK-801 is you can take 100 times the recreational dose of LSD, and although you might freak the fuck out, you shouldn't die.
 
thanks for the info Bilzor, I wonder why they tried so hard to keep their trials a secret.
 
Well drug companies don't publish positve results because then researchers would go "um, how come you excluded all the people who pulled out becasue of side effects from your conclusion", because thats what drug companies do, and then that would discredit their research which they need to get FDA approval.

Drug companies don't publish negative results, or even feep them on their web site, because then investors might go "oh, sometimes this company fails". In reality 90-95% of all researched drugs fail to get to the market. But you'll never see that fact on a drug company website.
 
I might be wrong but if my memory serves me zopiclone was the drug being developed by imclone that they thought wasn't going to be approved for testing so Martha Stewart dumped the stock, I know that drug WAS approved for testing about a month ago, not sure if it was zopiclone or not. The :rolleyes: meant I was kidding about the blotter thing.
 
prolonged PCP use creates little vaculoles in nerve cells.
In layman's terms that's little holes in your brain. Not my cup of tea. Why anyone would want a stronger dissociative that has a name like an assault rifle, I have no clue. Ketamine is the strongest Dissociative I'll touch thank you very much.
 
*sigh*
Originally posted by Bishop
prolonged PCP use creates little vaculoles in nerve cells
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  • Hasn't been shown in humans or primates
  • Hasn't been shown at recreational doses
  • The rules state "Be Factual - Don't make a factual claim unless you can back it up with references and scientific studies"
 
These vacuoles are Olney's lesions, and they have only been seen in rats. Rats metabolism is twice that of primates and humans, and it is due to this that people are protected from Olney's lesions ever occuring (forget the exact mechanism).
 
Dizocilpine - Comments, Feelings, Stories, Speculations

How do people feel about MK 801? Has anyone had the opportunity to try this substance or know of someone who has? I'd be interested in learning of how its effects compare to more traditional NMDA antagonists, like ketamine and DXM.
 
Here is a bit of clinical info>
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=17169478&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=17014267&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15795010

Standark wiki entry>
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MK-801&redirect=no

Other good info>
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/257/2/727
http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&...is.ac.uk/synaptic/info/pharmacology/NMDA.html

This medline info is the best I have found so far>
http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&...rchMedline.do?queryText=Dizocilpine%20Maleate

Experiences>
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Dizocilpine.shtml


Take the info for what you will and keep in mind it is known to cause short term structural changes in the brain. Long term effects are not yet known.
 
nanobrain said:
JB118 it makes you fly...in outer space.
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But it's one of the anticholinergics (one of the piperidyl benzilates) - thay all make you do something like that.

MK-801 is a bloody nightmare, nothing like the warm friendly world of ketamine. Just lots of confusion and feeling like it's Groundhog Day (the film) as it goes on for a fuckin' eternity.

Apparently you need dopamine & noradrenaline along with just a hint of opiate (that's why there's a 2-chloro group on the aromatic ring) to achieve that ketamine blend. MK-801 might be the right sort of NMDA antagonist, but it needs other qualities as well to make it work.

Funnily enough, replacing the 2-chloro group with a 3-methoxy group increses mu agonism and doubles the potency over ketamine in producing NMDA antagonism in one go. MK-801 falls sadlky short on those qualities.
 
fastandbulbous said:
Apparently you need dopamine & noradrenaline along with just a hint of opiate (that's why there's a 2-chloro group on the aromatic ring) to achieve that ketamine blend.
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I agree with you on the catecholamine release being important (though the molecular mechanisms are unknown); however, what is the evidence that opiate agonism plays a significant part in mediating the psychotropic actions of ketamine?
 
I read somewhere about the reason for the 2-chloro group being to increase analgesic activity and as the arylcyclohyxylamines show weak agonism at the mu receptor I put 2 and 2 together. Add to that the fact that 3-substituted phenylcyclohexylamines are mu agonists varying between codiene & morphine in their receptor binding it seems a logical deduction

Seems being the operative word as it covers a multitude of cock-ups!
 
MK-801: Stories, experiences?

Those of you who know MK-801, also known as dizocilpine, probably know it from William White's essay on Olney's Lesions, in which its administration in high doses to lab rats produced vacuoles in certain regions of their brains. Upon wikipediaing this substance, I found this paragraph on its recreational use:

"Dizocilpine may be effective as a recreational drug, and may have an active dose in the 50-100μg range. Little is known in this context about its effects, dosage, and risks. Dizocilpine's high potency makes its dosage more difficult to accurately control when compared to other similar drugs. As a result, the chances of overdosing are high. Users tend to report that the experience is not as enjoyable as other dissociative drugs, and it is often accompanied by strong auditory hallucinations. Also, dizocilpine is much longer-lasting than similar dissociative drugs such as ketamine and phencyclidine (PCP), and causes far worse amnesia and residual deficits in thinking, which have hindered its acceptance as a recreational drug.[citation needed]"


Has anyone ever encountered this drug or know someone who's taken this drug? It sounds far too neurotoxic to try, IMO, but I'd be interested in hearing some experiences or at least stories about this substance.
 
Erowid has a few trip reports that make it seem less than pleasant. One of the reports was from someone who used it for a month and it really fucked with him health wise, and if I recall correctly, he started pissing blood, which is enough for me to avoid mk-801.

I'm really interested in other dissociative anesthetics that have yet to be fully explored like mk-801. We should try to get an "experimental" dissociative anesthetic thread going, but I tend to think there is more danger associated with these drugs than say other psychedelic RC's. I mean, there has to be more out there than just nitrous, pcp, ketamine, and dxm.

One of the more interesting dissociative anesthetics I've been reading about is Xenon, which is supposedly 50% more potent than nitrous. The issue is a very high cost, but there are currently plans to start using it in dental work.
 
A few friends of mine tried it once, and said that it zombified them. They said that it was most similar to DXM out of all dissociatives.
 
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