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Dissociatives The Little & Dandy MK-801 Thread

Wow, yeah, this stuff looks like bad news. And the fact that it seems to be available via the standard research chem channels is not encouraging. :(

But, no matter what we say, I'm sure some intrepid psychonaut somewhere is trying MK-801 right now. Hopefully they will survive and post a report here, so we all know what NOT to do.
 
I read in a paper on the toxicity of ketamine that mk-801 has never been approved for study in humans, so if I could get a link to the studies you were talking about Bilzor I'd appreciate it.

In the family of dissociatives the toxicity goes in this order:
ketamine < DXM < PCP < mk-801, and if there is a trend between the toxicity level and the respected chemicals popularity then mk-801 should be pretty much useless.

I'm tired of trying to protect people from mk-801, to me it has way too many risks than any possible positive rewards to even think about working with, but apparently everyone is really digging the idea of this dangerous chemical. so be my guest, take it, and then post a trip report. then maybe we'll know if it's worth the risk.
 
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"and if there is a trend between the toxicity level and the respected chemicals popularity then mk-801 should be pretty much useless."

You may not see too many PCP posts in internet forums, but if you goto any urban or ghetto areas you'll find that PCP is much more popular making it more popular than ketamine statistically(atleast in the US). I like K but PCP is the ultimate in my book, following that trend may mean mk801 could be the next big thing, atleast to me, I will be posting trip reports on it as soon as it arrives to try and set the record straight on this one.
 
In the family of dissociatives the toxicity goes in this order:
ketamine < DXM < PCP < mk-801,
Click to expand...

What toxicity are you talking about?? Olney's lesions?? I believe these have never been shown to occur in humans, or even primates, with any of the the above substances. What data do you have to show that as long as one carefully titrates one's dose that MK-801 would be any more dangerous than PCP in humans?
 
Maybe someone will take it upon themselves to tell us if they end up with a good or bad experience from a human trial of Mk-801.
 
gloggawogga said:
What toxicity are you talking about?? Olney's lesions?? I believe these have never been shown to occur in humans, or even primates, with any of the the above substances.
Click to expand...

I was about to say the same. Here's a quote from the guidelines..

Be Factual - Don't make a factual claim unless you can back it up with references and scientific studies. We don't need more mythology surrounding drugs.
Click to expand...
 
I did read it from a study on ketamine toxicity and I believe it was written by Karl Jansen, I understand that olney's lesions have never been found in primates due to their lower metabolic rate. I'm not just making things up here.
 
I feel like I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I've noticed that there are bluelighters out there who are very reckless and irresponsible, and I feel that many times someone needs to argue the other side. there is surprisingly little information on mk-801, and as far as I can tell, no information regarding use in humans. (if we're going to be griping about factual claims, how about the claim that mk-801 was studied in humans, all of my research has said that mk-801 has never been approved for human research.) All information that I've read on mk-801 points in the direction that it could be toxic and probably not an enjoyable substance, of course I could be very wrong in this regards, and would be very grateful to anyone that would be willing to take the risk and show that the compound has potential. but until then, I feel that people do need to be cautioned before taking the plunge. I understand that there is a huge debate on dissociatives right now pertaining to their toxicity in humans, but I'm sure that many if not all can agree that they are certainly not benign substances and should at least be used in moderation. Given that mk-801 is more toxic and potent in rats than other dissociatives, one can assume that they are probably more damaging than the others within humans. I understand that this is a slightly flawed logic, but at the moment that is all that we have to work with.

I will no longer post my views on experimenting with this substance (in short, don't), but I am interested in this compound. If anyone does indeed know of a study done in humans, it would be greatly appreciated if they could point me in that direction. And those of you researching mk-801, I hope you share any and all information on the compound, as this is indeed a research compound in all senses of the term.
 
sorry to be posting yet again, but I just found this little bit of info on erowid.


Recently, upon indulging my curiosity on what files hyperreal.com/drugs/ had under
"dissociative anaesthetics", I noticed MK-801 (dizocilpine) listed along
with ketamine, pcp, etc. The former is not an anaesthetic, and does not induce the
entheogenic states typical of ketamine.

See, for example Physiol. & Behavior, *54*, 547 (1993), Pharmacology,
Biochemistry & Behavior, *48*, 935, (1994), and
Neuropsychopharmacology *11*, 167, (1994). In all three papers, the lack of
pcp-like anaesthesia with MK-801 is mentioned, and it is further pointed out
that blockade of NMDA receptors alone is not the mechanism of action of
dissociative anaesthetics. Of course it is well known that the latter
strongly affect sigma endorphin receptors, and DA receptors as well. MK-801
is relatively free of these effects, thus listing MK-801 with ketamine is misleading,
to say the least.

If you wish to list other dissociative agents, you should certainly include
tiletamine, the N-ethyl, thienyl analog of ketamine. In admixture with a
benzodiazepine, it is known as Telazol, and is used as an animal
anaesthetic.

Hopefully this information has been of possible utility..
Respectfully, S
 
Well if thats true then why the study in rats? Surely there are less lethal nmda agonists. Why all the interest in mk-801? Theres got to be something to this more than that.

I do however respect your thoughts on caution with this one. Something tells me it could be dangerous. Nonetheless it does seem interesting. I enjoyed K and PCP enough to wonder about it.

EROX you da man. Good luck! I tried the last new one out but I dont feel comfortable enough with disassociatives to be the first here.
 
I believe that they use mk-801 in studies merely because it is such an incredibly potent nmda agonist.
 
What are the medical benefits of an nmda agonist then? Anestesia? Surely there are opiates that are much more effective and less lethal.
 
As far as I know there are no medical benefits. They're only used in research to study the effects of different compounds on the brain I believe.
 
I think a bigger question is, is it likely to have any interesting psychedelic or dissociative effects?

I know we can't say for sure without more "clinical" research, but just based on what similar chemicals do, what can we speculate?
 
it seems that coadministration with scopolamine, diazepam or barbituates reduces or prevents the neurotoxicity. one does have to wonder what a scopolamine/PCP trip would be like...in any case, the dose ratio is 1:20 in this study, meaning one would need micrograms of scopolamine. diazepam prevents 50% of the damage, barbs 100%. this, at least, should be useful. peace

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=13066
 
MK-801 is used in animal studies because it is the most selective NMDA receptor antagonist available. Ketamine has a variety of non-NMDAergic effects, such as dopamine (DA) D2 receptor agonism, monoamine (5-HT, NE) reuptake inhibition, anticholinergic effects and sigma receptor agonism. Phencyclidine (who still uses PCP) has an even more diverse receptor binding profile--it is also a more potent DA receptor agonist and DA releaser than ketamine. D-methorphan is a very weak NMDA receptor antagonist with a number of serotonergic effects, sigma receptor agonism and whole host of other thusfar unknown effects. MK-801 is an NMDA receptor antagonist, pure and simple.

I doubt that it will be psychically interesting, but to each his/her own. Just please, do NOT take more than 250-500 ug, as too much NMDA antagonism causes respiratory depression and death.
 
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