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Recovery im so fucking tired, my mental fortitude is wearing thin

toolittletoolate

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Mar 3, 2017
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9
Well damn I'm bummed out, I was so tired last night and I finished my whole first post and hit submit and apparently it didnt submit it (or save it wtf)

Anyhow, I'm here to start a recovery journal. My homes the last few years have been shroomery/growery/reddit but this seemed like the perfect spot to start a journal I can keep up with.

I guess I'll start with a little about myself. 28M, been using drugs more or less on a daily basis since I was 15-16. It started with polysubstance abuse and then when I hit 19-20 it changed to primarily opiates and some benzos sprinkled in. Lots of ODs I'm sure you can imagine. That led to a forced 2 year stint of clean time (best time of my life). However when I got out it didn't take me long at all to get up to the neck in it again. I lasted a little over a year and then headed down to South FL for rehab. While I was in FL I met the absolute love of my life and moved to NC to live with her.

When I moved I did the (maybe one) smart thing and never looked for any connects here. But I did have an itch. For something, anything. I started drinking for a few weeks and then realized alcohol is no good either. So I ordered some kratom. I figured if I was going to use something on a daily basis, then I better use then cheapest and safest thing possible. Fast forward two years and thats where I'm at today. I have taken massive doses of kratom (15-20g 3-4x/day for an average of 50-60g/day). So yeah, thats where I am at. Also I got a car 6 months ago. And since I'm only around 3 hours away from where I grew up I've been going home every month or so and getting high on heroin. Thinking it's not a big deal because it's so sporadic... but we all know thats where it starts.

And then there is my GF, my sweet GF. Truly an amazing person and then best thing that has ever happened to me. She is an ex addict (one of those hardcore addicts who just stops one day, I seriously don't understand it) and from the very beginning she told me that she couldn't be around anyone that was using drugs. She was not thrilled, but OK with the Kratom. But as soon as I started to make those trips home 6 months ago she would always catch me. As she used to be an ex addict she knows all the tricks and spots that shit from a mile away. I might have taken heroin 7-8+ hours ago and not feel anything at all anymore, but it's like she smells it on me. Anyway, every time she's caught me it's distanced us further and further. And this last time may have been the breaking point.

To be clear I am not doing this for her though, I am doing it for me. But I would be absolutely devastated if I lost her because I wasn't able to control the stupid fucking urges in my head. So I am going to try and fight this time.

I only have 4 days of heroin in my system so those WDs should be more then manageable, I obviously am riding on 2+ years of kratom but I've had 'quit weeks' here and there so I know I can get through the acute stage of kratom pretty easily. I have a bit of suboxone if I really need it (like for work, which I can't take off), etizolam (as needed, probably for work), clonidine, gabapentin, really good vitamins/minerals, black seed oil, etc. So I am pretty set there. But like I said above, I'm king of WD. I have gone through so many acute WDs in my life it doesn't phase me a whole lot anymore.

What I am absolutely terrified about is the mental part after, the PAWS. I quit kratom for 7-8 days back in December and got through the first 5-6 pretty easily. And then the PAWS hit. Extreme depression/anhedonia and worst of all the anxiety. It's bad enough at home dealing with it, but I have a very nice job. I bartend at a fancy place, and am expected to be a certain level of 'bright' and social. So last time this really fucked with my work, and I was getting super anxious around coworkers etc.

It's part of the reason I'm quitting anyway because long term kratom use makes you (me at least, and many people over on r/quittingkratom) very anxious. Many of the problems you took it for initially, it ends up causing you after a long term addiction.

Anyway I'm sorry that was so long winded. I wanted to give you guys a little backstory so you know a little about what I was going through.

I threw all my kratom away yesterday, and when I woke up I was looking for a charger and found another bag hidden. I woke up feeling sweaty and shitty so obviously I took some. So unfortunately this wont count as day one, however I turned that bag over to my GF to destroy so I really won't have anymore now.

Guys - I'm really going to need your support through this. And I hate admitting that because I hate asking for things. But I know this is going to be really hard on me and I know that I've never outside of a forced 2 years spent any meaningful time 100% drug free in my life. I don't know what it's like, and I don't know how to get there. I know it will be good, but I know the road to get there is going to be very hard.

I've been standing here for too long watching people, places, dreams and ambitions move by. It's time to move.
 
Hey, tooLittle...welcome to BL and to SL (sober living) in particular! I think you'll find a lot of folks here who can identify well with what you're going through and probably some who can offer advice whenever you want it. I for one am on month 4 off of a 4-year heroin habit. It's still brutal, staying off the dope, but I'm sure you know that! If I can answer questions or help in any way, please don't hesitate to ask. That's what we do here on SL.

Meanwhile, I'm glad you decided to start a journal. I started one a couple months ago and have found it really helpful.

Best luck.
Sim
 
Welcome brother!!

You're in the right place for support. Great group of folks here. And we all GET IT. You sound like you know what you guys do. Set a goal and just stick to it.

For example, mine was stay sober until my daughter's birthday which was 6 weeks. I told myself I would not touch opiotes before then.. I find setting small goals helps me.

Hey, if sobriety don't work out... Drugs will always be there. So I might add well give it a fair shake, right. I hope you do to.

You sound like you're doing quite well though. Keep fighting.
 
In terms of kratom, you should essentially look as it as just another opioid. That is essentially what it is, with an acute withdrawal almost identical to other similar opioids like codeine or pseudo-opioids like tramadol (for all intensive purposes kratom is tramadol in terms of withdrawal and dependency). So coming off of it is not something to be taken lightly. It might not be the big bad heroin, but that doesn't mean it is a different beast entirely either.

Have you considered using either buprenorphine or methadone for an extended detox (basically six months) to get some sober time under your belt OP and time away from opioid type substance use? Your return to opioid types substance use, and in particular heroin use, despite your efforts to maintain abstinence from opioids indicates you would benefit from the stability and support pharmacotherapy can provide in the form of ORT.

Outside of the comfort meds you have for your detox, what kind of support do you have IRL? It sounds like your partner is supportive, but only to a degree (to the degree it won't interfere with her own recovery, which would be a very common stance for couples who are both in recovery). And in any case, it is very rare that the only support one needs is a single loved one.

Do you have a doctor and/or therapist you can work with on this stuff?
 
Oh I'm all too aware about Kratom's WD. Like I said in my initial post - the Acute stage isn't what I'm most worried about. Though the years I've done that with Oxy, Heroin, and Kratom all multiple times. It's obviously not an ideal situation, but usually I am so strong in my resolve I get through it. When the Anxiety/Anhedonia from PAWS starts, and I'm physically feeling better that's when I start to forget why I started and my resolve weakens. Which is why it is that stage that I am most worried about. I have never quit anything for more then a week outside of Jail/Drug court since I was 15-16. I don't know how. But I want it. And I am going to work hard at it.

I have not considered using bupe or methadone for long periods of time. It is just not looking like something I'm going to do. Especially methadone, I've seen people come off of that. I am not trying to talk bad about it at all, I know it works for a lot of people, but it is not the route I am looking to do. I only have been using heroin a weekend or so a month, I feel like going on a daily opioid would be a set back. I am trying to make long term habits to quell my sporadic heroin use and chronic kratom use, not come down off of a large habit.

My partner is very supportive actually. At this very moment we are in a spat because of my most recent heroin binge earlier this week. However when we are on good terms, she is very supportive. She knows where I am at and what I'm going through and is always there for me. But besides that, no I don't have much IRL support. My best friend a few states away that is clean from heroin now I can always call and he gives it to be straight. But besides that not many people. Over time Kratom started giving me a lot of Anxiety, and having a lot of anxiety and moving to a new state where you don't know anyone makes making friends hard. I know two people around where I live that are sober, one of them I work with and we talk a good bit. So I will probably let him know where I'm at as he has offered to be there if I needed someone to talk to in the past.

I do have a psychiatrist that I went to a few times a year ago to help get off of Etizolam, and a few months later Kratom (that obviously didn't stick). That is where I get my current supply of Clonidine and Gabapentin from. However my current insurance doesn't kick in until April 1 because of some weird bullshit that I wont get into now.

Thank you for all the responses and support guys.
 
That's a drag about your insurance. It will be really helpful to have someone to help support you with the proper medication as you deal with the side effects of kratom withdrawal - particularly the depression and anhedonia as you mentioned. Have you considered working with a therapist of some flavor - or some kind of support group?
 
Yeah I had a bunch of insurance issues this year, the whole system is fucked. And it looks like I may even lose it soon. But that is a post for another day.

Obviously you aren't a doctor (I don't think?) so I am not looking for medical advice, but what are some medications that you have seen work for people for the Anxiety/Anhedonia/Depression from PAWS?

I went to one Therapist here but I didn't like him. There is little to no information online about Therapists, such as reviews, specialties or demeanors. So it's just shooting fish in a barrel. I would love to find a Therapist locally that I could really unload my baggage to. I don't know much about support groups to be honest. I am not against the idea, but the only ones I'm really familiar with is 12 step and that is not something I'm interested in. I am vaguely familiar with SMART but I've heard a lot of conflicting information on it.
 
Nope, I'm not a licensed medical professional, just a long term drug user with a lot of experience in the field. I did work as a street nurse for a little bit, but that hardly counts as far as what you're asking.

It's really tough with treating mood disorders post opioid and gabaergic use. TBH what seemed to work the best for me has been a combination of substance use (particularly entheogens and NMDA antagonists like DXM, ketamine and Iboga) and mindfulness based stress reduction practices.

The lifestyle changes and behavioral techniques (mindfulness based practices are of most value IME) seem to be one huge piece of the puzzle in overcoming mood disregulation in early recovery, but medications (antidepressants for instance), entheogens and NMDA antagonist provided me with the push I needed to really get going cementing healthy lifestyle changes and habits.

Working with a doctor and therapist, really working to get as much professional therapeutic support as you can, will make a big difference in early recovery. Of course it comes down to what you do, and no one can do recovery for you. Plus how you find recovery to shape up will look a little different for you than anyone else. But the more support you can get, pharmacological, social and behavioral the easier of a time you'll have at it all.

I agree it is really hard to find a good therapist. It took me a long time, probably 9/10 times they did less to help and more to hurt. But it is worth the effort, because once you find someone worth working with it can be a really amazing support. I take the approach that, if they aren't the right fit, and it is usually pretty obvious given our own personal styles, fuck em. Move on to the next. In terms of finding quality therapists, finding professionals who I agree with in terms of their treatment perspective and respect professionally in terms of their credentials and having them make referrals to therapists they think I'd get along with was what ended up working in terms of finding one to work with.

That all said, I no longer work with a therapist (although it is more for financial reasons than anything, I would have liked to continue but it's just not affordable) :\
 
So I guess this is officially day one. I feel OK so far but it's only been 2 days since I last took H and 18 hours for kratom. Walking into work now.

I have this very weird pressure in what feels to be my heart. Almost like someone has their hand around it and is squeezing. I talked to my Doctor about it in November and he didn't have much to tell me. He said what I was describing sounds like what people say a heart attack feels like, but he is positive there is no way I would have one at my age. Told me to take aleve in case it is a muscular/skeletal issue, and took some Xrays and thats about it. It comes and goes (went away mostly for a few months but it's back now) and it's definitely been bothering me the last two days. I refilled my prescription of clonidine though and that usually helps a little bit.


In any case, heading into work, so heres to a good day one I guess.
 
First day no Kratom was a success, and I think the heroin is mostly out of my system by now. I took some suboxone and etizolam for work, but will cut that out shortly. Plan on doing 2mg/day suboxone 1mg in the AM and 1mid day on Sunday and Monday, and then handing the rest over to my GF. Etizolam is nice to have but I am also going to try and cut that out for the most part unless there is a time I really need it. Going to make the switch over to black seed oil, ashwaganda, gabapentin and clonidine.

I just wish I could speed up this process and be done with it.
 
OP, sounds like a good plan. Just curious--why the short stint on subs? I'm sure you have your reasons, which of course is cool. But if it's helping, I don't think a couple mg/day is likely to give you much trouble when it IS time to stop them (assuming you're not on them tooooooooooooo long). Just a thought.
 
Keep up the great work OP! It is a huge PITA when we are feeling a bit restless with the process, just remember that the slow and steady are the long term winners in this race.
 
OP, sounds like a good plan. Just curious--why the short stint on subs? I'm sure you have your reasons, which of course is cool. But if it's helping, I don't think a couple mg/day is likely to give you much trouble when it IS time to stop them (assuming you're not on them tooooooooooooo long). Just a thought.

Well honestly because I want to make the process as comfortable as possible. I know it is a bit overkill. I had a few subs left over from a recent binder, and figured I could make the process a lot smoother this way. Give time for the Kratom alkaloids to work their way out of my system. I figured if I went on a quick 4-5 day taper with the subs it shouldn't leave me with it's own withdrawal and I'd be done with the acute stages of Kratom/Heroin WD.

It has been 5 days since I last took heroin and 4 since I last took Kratom. I slipped up a little bit today with the Suboxone, but it shouldn't prove to be a big setback. I went from 2mg Friday, to 4 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday, 1 on Monday and I started with .5 today. But I had a meeting at work and got a bit of anxiety so I ended up taking 1.5 today. Going to go back to .5 tomorrow and then shoot for none on Thursday, which is a day that I have off. I haven't taken any Etizolam in the last few days, but it's nice to know I have it there as a backup if needed. Gabapentin has been very nice. I took my first dose of SAM-e today and feel very nice actually. This has been a fairly painless affair so far (obviously mostly due to the Suboxone, we'll see how I feel Thursday and beyond when I stop taking it).

My girlfriend told me I should cut the Subs into tiny pieces, >.25mg and take those for a few days to make it a very soft process. I'll see how I feel, I would prefer to just be done with it all together but I'll need to see how I feel. My job is both Physically and Socially demanding so making sure I am in work form is very important.

Thanks a lot for everyones responses and support. I really appreciate it. I will continue to update as the process moves along. It should get interesting when I stop the Subs.

I am in a very interesting and odd (but good) mindspace today. After reading a few articles on anxiety/not giving a fuck, and some posts here on Bluelight that my brother sent me. Has me thinking about a lot of things, like why I took kratom in the beginning. Why I binge on heroin once a month. Where my anxiety has come from. And things I can do in the future to combat that. It would be a lot to write about and I'm sure you guys don't want to read through all of that, so I may make a post on it later. But I did want to note it on here so when I read through this again in the future I will know where I was at and what was going through my head.

Cheers guys.
 
I am in a very interesting and odd (but good) mindspace today. After reading a few articles on anxiety/not giving a fuck, and some posts here on Bluelight that my brother sent me. Has me thinking about a lot of things, like why I took kratom in the beginning. Why I binge on heroin once a month. Where my anxiety has come from. And things I can do in the future to combat that. It would be a lot to write about and I'm sure you guys don't want to read through all of that, so I may make a post on it later. But I did want to note it on here so when I read through this again in the future I will know where I was at and what was going through my head.

I have found it quite interesting to "study" anxiety. When you are in the thick of it, it is an unquestionable reality; but when you step outside of it and observe the thought process, it is so clearly useless!:\ One thing that I have noticed about people that tend to suffer from anxiety is that they are also people that are very sensitive. Having a sensitive nature is a plus overall even if it can make things somewhat more difficult. I think writing about this stuff can be very helpful. You may start out thinking you are going to write about something and then the writing itself leads you into some uncharted territory and you end up learning a lot about yourself. So, I hope you can stay in this thoughtful mindspace for a while. Recovery is a process of looking within as much as anything.<3
 
OP, though it may not feel like it, it sounds like you're doing great--handling the subs and the etizolam well, and your eyes squarely ahead.

A couple points/questions...

I totally understand your desire to be done with all this shit. But as folks often say about recovery...it's like a marathon, not a sprint. FWIW, my advice is to take it slowly so you can lay the ground work for feeling solid when you finish the comfort meds. Of course, what 'slowly' means is entirely personal and up to you. I'm just suggesting--if you feel like you're rushing, maybe sit back and slow it up a bit.

Second thing--I'd be really curious to hear what your experience with Sam-e is like. I've heard some really good things and some, not so much. I hope you'll keep us posted.

Meanwhile, you're killing it, man. Keep up the hard work.
Sim
 
OP, though it may not feel like it, it sounds like you're doing great--handling the subs and the etizolam well, and your eyes squarely ahead.

A couple points/questions...

I totally understand your desire to be done with all this shit. But as folks often say about recovery...it's like a marathon, not a sprint. FWIW, my advice is to take it slowly so you can lay the ground work for feeling solid when you finish the comfort meds. Of course, what 'slowly' means is entirely personal and up to you. I'm just suggesting--if you feel like you're rushing, maybe sit back and slow it up a bit.

Second thing--I'd be really curious to hear what your experience with Sam-e is like. I've heard some really good things and some, not so much. I hope you'll keep us posted.

Meanwhile, you're killing it, man. Keep up the hard work.
Sim


Thank you. I got my on my proper schedule today - with .5mg of suboxone. I still have 3.5mg left.

And I am starting to come around to the whole 'marathon not a sprint' thing. The way my mind works, I want to be done with subs so I can properly counting days. Because it doesn't feel right now since I'm taking subs and that is basically another opiate. However when I brought this up to my GF she made a good point about not even worrying about the number of days. That counting days is stressful and doesn't really matter. That if I am truly done with it, then I am just 'done' and counting the days simply isn't important any more. And that made a lot of sense. It was hard for me because thinking about the an absolute 'never using opiates again' is such a hard concept for me to grasp right now. It's too much for me to wrap my head around. I mean, if I am being 10000% honest, I don't even know if I WANT to quit for my lifetime. I mean, I know it's what I need to do. I know it's the right thing to do. And most of all, I have been really worried about my older (60year+) self looking back and having regret. So I don't want to do anything else that will make me have any more regret then I already have. So basically, I know it's what I need to do. But it is so hard to think in such absolute terms like 'I will never use opiates again'. I can't think like that. I have to (sorry for AA phrase, I'm not really an AA guy but some sayings stick out) just think about one day at a time. If I keep doing that, maybe forever will come. But right now I can't even imagine never using opiates again.

Anyhow, I think your are right. I am going to continue cutting up the suboxone doses into tinnnyyyyyy pieces. Like .25 tomorrow .125 the day after, and smaller and smaller after. I think it will help with my headspace and cravings. And give me a real slow let down process. Personally, I just want to stop so I can be done everything. But I know it doesn't work like that. So I am starting to think that taking it slow and taking those tiny pieces will help me cope with the mental aspect of things.

My 2 day (so far) experience with SAM-e has been great. However I am on suboxone, fish oil, vitamin D, vitamin K, B vitamin mix, ashwaganda, rhodiola, gabapentin, clonidine, SAM-e, etc. So while I have felt really good it is hard to pinpoint it to the SAM-e. After a few more days I am going to cut a lot of the other guys out so that I can have a better experience of what SAM-e by itself does to me. So hopefully I will have a more comprehensive answer then.

Thanks a lot for your support, it means a lot.

Here is to another day..
 
I know it's a late reply, but you've been doing a hell of a job man. I'm glad to hear your progress so far, and I'm really glad to hear that your overall mindset about using seems to be changing. You're definitely on the right path.
 
Agreed, you are doing great work OP!

Wise words from the herb btw. Definitely worth stick with her, ze's a winner :)
 
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