Should Kratom Use Be Legal?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=should-kratom-be-legal

The leaves of the herb kratom (Mitragyna speciosa), a native of Southeast Asia in the coffee family, are used to relieve pain and improve mood as an opiate substitute and stimulant. The herb is also combined with cough syrup to make a popular beverage in Thailand called “4x100.” Because of its psychoactive properties, however, kratom is illegal in Thailand, Australia, Myanmar (Burma) and Malaysia. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration lists kratom as a “drug of concern” because of its abuse potential, stating it has no legitimate medical use. The state of Indiana has banned kratom consumption outright.

Now, looking to control its population’s growing dependence on methamphetamines, Thailand is attempting to legalize kratom, which it had originally banned 70 years ago.

At the same time, researchers are studying kratom’s ability to help wean addicts from much stronger drugs, such as heroin and cocaine. Studies show that a compound found in the plant could even serve as the basis for an alternative to methadone in treating addictions to opioids. The moves are just the latest step in kratom’s strange journey from home-brewed stimulant to illegal painkiller to, possibly, a withdrawal-free treatment for opioid abuse.

With kratom’s legal status under review in Thailand and U.S. researchers delving into the substance’s potential to help drug addicts, Scientific American spoke with Edward Boyer, a professor of emergency medicine and director of medical toxicology at the University of Massachusetts Medical School. Boyer has worked with Chris McCurdy, a University of Mississippi professor of medicinal chemistry and pharmacology, and others for the past several years to better understand whether kratom use should be stigmatized or celebrated.

[An edited transcript of the interview follows.]

I haven't seen this before and its a good read.

Is the cough syrup they mix it with dxm? I would think itd be codeine and prometh but just curious. I think dxm and kratom would be nice. Never tried it for some reason

I don't see any reason kratom should qualify for a controlled substance. I personally find the stuff to be very weak.

But then again I think percocet, marijuana, and vicdoin should be over the counter.

highhooked said:

Is the cough syrup they mix it with dxm? I would think itd be codeine and prometh but just curious. I think dxm and kratom would be nice. Never tried it for some reason

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I don't know about that 4x100 its sounds like a bunch of bullshit but maybe someone else knows. Did you read the part about the government surpressing kratom research?

This is my favorite part:

"What barriers have you run into when trying to study kratom?
I tried to get an NIH grant to study kratom specifically. When I went to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, they said they’d never heard of that drug. When I went to the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, they said this is a drug of abuse, and we don’t fund drug of abuse research. They want drugs that are used therapeutically. [A team led by McCurdy, who confirms that it is difficult to get funding to study kratom, did manage to secure a three-year grant from the NIH Centers of Biomedical Research Excellence to investigate the herb’s opioid-like effects.]

So the study of this type of substance falls to academics or pharma companies. Drug companies are the ones who can isolate a particular compound, do chemistry on it, study and modify the structure, figure out its activity relationships, and then create modified molecules for testing. Then you have eventually file for a new drug application with the FDA in order to conduct clinical trials. Based on my experiences, the likelihood of that happening is reasonably small.

Why wouldn’t large pharmaceutical companies try to make a blockbuster drug from kratom?
At least one pharma company [Smith, Kline & French, now part of GlaxoSmithKline] was looking at it in the 1960s, but something didn’t work for them. Either it wasn’t a strong enough analgesic or the solubility was bad or they didn’t have a drug delivery system for it. To the state of the art pharmaceutical business thinking in 1960s, this compound was not sufficient to be brought to market. Of course, now that we have a country with many addicted people dying of respiratory depression, having a drug that can effectively treat your pain with no respiratory depression, I think that’s pretty cool. It might be worth a second look for pharma companies."

from shit i've read online kratom is a safer way to detox than methadone or suboxone, and i've used it and found very little reason or compulsion to stay high on it compared to other opioids (shitty high) so i'm gonna have to say no it shouldn't be illegal. i don't think ANY drug should be illegal (or at least a criminal issue) but kratom moreso than almost anything else. shit's close to harmless IMO.

Yeah, besides addiction kratom is mostly harmless. Besides maybe seizures at super high (almost too high doses to reasonably consume). And I'm not even sure that's possible I'm just guessing on kratom's relationship with tramadol.

It's just as mainstream as 'bath salts' but none of the fallout. I wouldn't be surprised if kratom flew under the radar like salvia. Banned some places but never a full federal ban. I don't know but I hope it remains legal.

the one state that happens to ban it has to be mine

Boupstarnm said:

Yeah, besides addiction kratom is mostly harmless. Besides maybe seizures at super high (almost too high doses to reasonably consume). And I'm not even sure that's possible I'm just guessing on kratom's relationship with tramadol.

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Have never heard of Kratom causing a seizure....and what on earth is kratom's relationship with tramadol ? Both from planet earth?

It is currently banned in 2 states (TN and IN) and over 18 in another (LA). Louisianas approach was shockingly rational, compared to the usual knee jerk outright prohibition. The states that have (and others attempting to do the same) ridiculously inept bills, often listing mitragynine and 7-OH mitragynine with and amongst either cannabinoids or cathinones, of which they are neither. I think a 1 minute minimum utilizing google should be a prerequisite for writing, sponsoring, or voting on a bill....that's really not too much to ask, is it?

For prohibitionists including kratom on some fake weed bill is probably best way to go. Now one cared about 2-ce so they banned it in the bath salts mega bill. No one cares about Kratom so ban it with the anti fake weed bill because that will get passed. No one cared enough about 2-ce to fight the horrible bath salts ban because so salts were so "evil", no is going to defend kratom either if it means sticking up for fake pot. Lumping Kratom and salvia in with fake pot would make easier to ban them IMO.

Yes. I think every plant that grows on earth should be legal. I also think it's ridiculous that people accept that politicians can make something that grows on the earth illegal.

I am very much in love with this plant. I saw my local natural healer who has a store front downtown. He doesnt sell kratom but when I asked about it he said it is as great of a drug/medicine as cannabis is. It is as if the things that cannabis doesnt help are helped by kratom. My girlfriend is detoxing from methadone and it is really helping. She was in a car accident that will probably result in years more of pain killer use. Due to the lesser side effects. The fact that it is dirt cheap, that she can own as much of it as she wants, that it helps regulate her (and my) bowels. It is a great stress and anxiety reliever.

My back has been FUCKED lately. Kratom helps everyday until I can see a professional about it. The addiction people speak of is apparently more of a craving than a physical withdrawal. I have heard the addiction can be as strong as a good coffee habit (which I am not scoffing at) but versus what oxy or hydromorphone can do to a person this is much better. If we take a new strain we get constipated for a day or two. If we keep using that strain it goes away.

It has helped me to not binge eat and snack throughout the day. I normally will not eat kratom in the mornings but I will have breakfast and by 2pm I can eat the kratom and have lunch shortly after. Incase of the need of a few more capsules I will hold out on dinner until around 6pm. Sometimes eat a few more caps then. It keeps me regular and clear headed. I also feel it may have some antibiotic properties because I work in a call centre and everyone around me is sick but me.

I would be devistated if kratom became illegal in Canada.

Of course it should...

^Be careful using anecdotal evidence, as people's experiences differ, and you may find that after a long time of (especially high dose) kratom, you will indeed have opiate style withdrawals. It's silly to compare it to dilaudid, but the sick can really be there for some. This is the reason I'd like to see education (as usual)... erowid has some horror stories about it, and I've personally felt w/d syndrome from it during a long course of detox and retox (heh) from opiates. Obviously if you've had a habit you should be much more careful.

I think it should definitely be legal, the methadone alternative sounds promising and it is really just a mild opiod. Let's face it, it's not going to make people eat each other's faces etc. it has a relatively low profile so it will most likely be the odd teenager and users of forums like these who know how to use things responsibly that are using it, primarily i think all drugs should be legal, but to keep a legal alternative i think is also an effective way of keeping people off drugs such as H.

Scheduling kratom would be a truly idiotic move, but of course it's more than likely to happen. Just look at cannabis for a parallel. It's an opiate agonist ie a prime target. Its helped people get clean from opiates; thats competition for methadone and suboxone - and pharmaceutical companies aren't above lobbying to ban any type of beneficial substance they can't patent and brand.

I'm staying one step ahead of them; buying up as much kratom as possible before the idiocy takes over, and an effective and harmless plant is turned into a hard drug.

If its banned, I think the culprit is gonna be the grasping headshops, attempting to sell kratom as a "legal heroin".

Doctor_Ew420 said:

I am very much in love with this plant. I saw my local natural healer who has a store front downtown. He doesnt sell kratom but when I asked about it he said it is as great of a drug/medicine as cannabis is. It is as if the things that cannabis doesnt help are helped by kratom. My girlfriend is detoxing from methadone and it is really helping. She was in a car accident that will probably result in years more of pain killer use. Due to the lesser side effects. The fact that it is dirt cheap, that she can own as much of it as she wants, that it helps regulate her (and my) bowels. It is a great stress and anxiety reliever.

My back has been FUCKED lately. Kratom helps everyday until I can see a professional about it. The addiction people speak of is apparently more of a craving than a physical withdrawal. I have heard the addiction can be as strong as a good coffee habit (which I am not scoffing at) but versus what oxy or hydromorphone can do to a person this is much better. If we take a new strain we get constipated for a day or two. If we keep using that strain it goes away.

It has helped me to not binge eat and snack throughout the day. I normally will not eat kratom in the mornings but I will have breakfast and by 2pm I can eat the kratom and have lunch shortly after. Incase of the need of a few more capsules I will hold out on dinner until around 6pm. Sometimes eat a few more caps then. It keeps me regular and clear headed. I also feel it may have some antibiotic properties because I work in a call centre and everyone around me is sick but me.

I would be devistated if kratom became illegal in Canada.

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Definately be aware that if you keep using the withdrawals from kratom are FAR stronger than that of coffee. Don't get me wrong kratom withdrawals are nothing compared to a true opioid habit but that "as addictive as a cup of coffee" bullshit is just that...bullshit. I think the KA spreads this around to keep kratom legal and while I'm all for that this misleads users into thinking that they will be fine with habitual use only to realize that the withdrawals are very real. Just a heads up, as for your GF getting off methadone good for her, she's definately chosen the lesser of two evils and her withdrawals should definately be lessened after she becomes dependant on the kratom, if she hasn't already. I also find kratom is a great "regulator", possibly the fiber?

If kratom becomes illegal then lawmakers better prepare for quite a bit of vocal resistance. The great thing about kratom users is that they are a very vocal community and for good reason. Kratom has caused no deaths, withdrawals are minor, has too many health benefits to list (muscle relaxer, pain analgesic, antibacterial, anti-diabetic) the list can go on forever. The only reasoning the government has against kratom stems from greedy ass politicians and big pharma, as if those assholes don't have enough money as it is :/. Reading that the only ones who will have permission for research are the pharmaceutical companies scares me. They can't possibly make a case against it given all the toxic shit they approve like SSRI's and tetracycline antibiotics but if they find they can't profit off it then the alternative to their medications should be banned. I truely hope kratom stays legal on a national level, as far as the state level goes I'm not too worried being that I live in california which rarely bans these type of drugs but still, there are people that truely use this as a medication and if they are cut off then they will have to resort to stronger, more addictive substances which is BS if you ask me. I wish that there would be no research done and it would be left alone. The fact that it's been around for centuries is enough for me. So much for caring about the wellbeing of the common citizen.... just shove pills, alcohol, and tobacco at em because those are deemed legal status despite the millions of deaths attributed to them

TL;DR- mini rant

How long do you have to use kratom for to develop a dependence to it?
I've heard too many reports of addiction to conclude it's more addictive than a cup of coffee, for sure. Could the WD's be compared to an opiate ie codeine, or dihydrocodeine?

Id love to see it be approved by the FDA and have starbucks and bars start using it in their products tbh

Yes, why the hell not? Thing is though, they've already managed to tarnish its image; it's cropped up as a legal high by grasping head stores, and then there's the media scare stories - I've heard this harmless shit been labelled a "legal heroin", for fucks sake...

dopemegently said:

How long do you have to use kratom for to develop a dependence to it?
I've heard too many reports of addiction to conclude it's more addictive than a cup of coffee, for sure. Could the WD's be compared to an opiate ie codeine, or dihydrocodeine?

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I noticed dependance issues after around 30 days of everyday use. The withdrawals can be compard to codeine or dihydro, just replace any sort of GI issues from codeine withdrawals with depression and they're about the same. Thankfully kratom withdrawals have no effect on the stomach, not even a trace of nausea but the rls, depression, anxiety, and inability to take more than 10 steps without being out of energy suck, definately more addicting than even the strongest coffee habit that's for sure.