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[MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 4

ah okay that does suck

she may have had a rare allergy though, or had an underlying condition, or been on other medications that had a strange interaction, etc etc

the fact remains that the large majority of people suffer no health problems from smoking synthetic blends

anyone trying the stuff for their first time should start with one small hit and see how they react. there's nothing in the article about how much she smoked, but many first time users dose synthetic blends like they dose mid-grade marijuana.... and that is typically way too much for a synthetic blend.

definitely a tragedy, but you can dig up news articles like that for just about any other drug. in a world with 7 billion people in it there are going to be some statistical anomalies like that.

also from the article:

It was linked to 11,406 drug-related emergency department visits in 2010, a study by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found. Most were aged 12 to 17.

this is why we need better regulation (not bans). just like many other substances, it apparently affects developing minds/bodies more than it affects adults.
 
ah okay that does suck

she may have had a rare allergy though, or had an underlying condition, or been on other medications that had a strange interaction, etc etc

the fact remains that the large majority of people suffer no health problems from smoking synthetic blends

anyone trying the stuff for their first time should start with one small hit and see how they react. there's nothing in the article about how much she smoked, but many first time users dose synthetic blends like they dose mid-grade marijuana.... and that is typically way too much for a synthetic blend.

definitely a tragedy, but you can dig up news articles like that for just about any other drug. in a world with 7 billion people in it there are going to be some statistical anomalies like that.

also from the article:



this is why we need better regulation (not bans). just like many other substances, it apparently affects developing minds/bodies more than it affects adults.
Don't be apologetic, there's clearly something wrong here. The OD on synths is frightening as hell, and does strange things to the brain. I am a witness to that myself, thank the divine overlord my brain was not sensitive.

No one has these problems from cannabis, and it provides all of the effects in a superior fashion. Now I'm not saying synths be banned, I'm saying cannabis be legalized. People can use synths if they want, they can take that risk. For everyone who wants to experience the high with no risk, there's cannabis.
 
Don't be apologetic, there's clearly something wrong here. The OD on synths is frightening as hell, and does strange things to the brain. I am a witness to that myself, thank the divine overlord my brain was not sensitive.

No one has these problems from cannabis, and it provides all of the effects in a superior fashion. Now I'm not saying synths be banned, I'm saying cannabis be legalized. People can use synths if they want, they can take that risk. For everyone who wants to experience the high with no risk, there's cannabis.

i agree with all the above

in addition to legalization of cannabis, we need more information to be put out there about responsible use of synthetics (and of all drugs). synthetic blends are often designed to be one-hit-quit stuff, but because of current laws manufacturers aren't allowed to put dosage recommendations on their packages.

i've talked to a lot of people both online and "IRL" that have had bad experiences on synthetics, and 95%+ of the time its been due to dosing too high.

but yes ultimately the best solution here would be to legalize cannabis sp,
 
Do you guys smoke synthetics because your area is dry of weed? Price difference justifies the high difference? Because theyre legal and weed still isnt many places? Are any of them more enjoyable than real weed?

I bought a few grams of that original Spice back in the day when I couldnt find any cheap weed, but the high duration meant you had to smoke much more often and burn through it much quicker than weed. I remember thinking "Man I shoulda just bought a gram of that expensive shit." It also became worthless after the tolerance settled in, which wa sfairly quickly, because you had to smoke so much of the shit.

I am intrigued by this synthetic though mentioned a few pages back that mimics the effects of LSD more closely than weed though...
 
Aren't the marinol capsules usually 10mg, and aren't the majority of synthetic cannabinoids much more potent?

yup, that's his point

synthetic cannabinoids are more potent than the majority of all drugs (of any class)

10mg is a big dose of some synthetic cannabinoids, yet 10mg is nearly inactive for many other drugs

part of the reason why people tend to overdose on synthetic cannabinoids
 
yup, that's his point

synthetic cannabinoids are more potent than the majority of all drugs (of any class)

10mg is a big dose of some synthetic cannabinoids, yet 10mg is nearly inactive for many other drugs

part of the reason why people tend to overdose on synthetic cannabinoids

The way I ODed was by upping my dose a bunch, to the point where there was a dangerous level in the bowl. In small hits there was no problems, the problems arose when I decided to take a good ole big weed hit. I don't remember anything after that, except waking up and vomiting and losing memory of almost everything even the date.

The substance I refer to is UR-144. I've never had a drug mess with my mind like this. I ODed on clonazepam and that was benign (27.5 mg the first time I used clonazepam in my life) compared to this. UR-144 OD is not psychedelic, or pleasurable. It is an unexplainably horrible event which I would wish on no one.
 
The way I ODed was by upping my dose a bunch, to the point where there was a dangerous level in the bowl. In small hits there was no problems, the problems arose when I decided to take a good ole big weed hit. I don't remember anything after that, except waking up and vomiting and losing memory of almost everything even the date.

The substance I refer to is UR-144. I've never had a drug mess with my mind like this. I ODed on clonazepam and that was benign (27.5 mg the first time I used clonazepam in my life) compared to this. UR-144 OD is not psychedelic, or pleasurable. It is an unexplainably horrible event which I would wish on no one.

Yeah, it's pretty god awful (or satan awful). But, luckily, it doesn't last as long as losing your mind or ODing on 2C-I-Nbome, or DOB, and it's not nearly as frightening I think. If it lasted for hours I'd be scared shitless.
 
Hi,
I'm new to bluelight, but i'm not sure if this has been tried yet, so I decided to make an account. STS-135 and APICA/SBD-001/2NE1 can be IV'ed of course with a lot lower doses than suggested for the smoked ROA, if dissolved in 1/4 ml. Propylene Glycol for 15 min with a tiny bit of water will make for a nice buzz. Not overwhelming as you would think it would be.
 
Hi,
I'm new to bluelight, but i'm not sure if this has been tried yet, so I decided to make an account. STS-135 and APICA/SBD-001/2NE1 can be IV'ed of course with a lot lower doses than suggested for the smoked ROA, if dissolved in 1/4 ml. Propylene Glycol for 15 min with a tiny bit of water will make for a nice buzz. Not overwhelming as you would think it would be.

Sounds like precisely the thing that would be freaky to IV.. like trying to IV 4-AcO-DMT. no thankaaahhh you. But, to each is own lol. Is propylene glycol a good solvent for other lipophilic drugs? Or are STS-135 and such even lipophilic?
 
Sounds like precisely the thing that would be freaky to IV.. like trying to IV 4-AcO-DMT. no thankaaahhh you. But, to each is own lol. Is propylene glycol a good solvent for other lipophilic drugs? Or are STS-135 and such even lipophilic?


Propylene Glycol is good for benzodiazepines/theo(sp?)diazepines, since they are both lipophilic and not water soluble.
The STS-135 and 2NE1 seem to be lipophilic because insuffulation worked to an extent, but by no means placebo. The breakdown of the cannibinoids in the Propylene Glycol suggest there lipophilic. These cannibinoids are supposedly inactive when used sub-lingually (which can show that it isn't water soluble at all), but can be absorbed in the stomach due to the acids breaking down the lipids.
 
Propylene Glycol is good for benzodiazepines/theo(sp?)diazepines, since they are both lipophilic and not water soluble.
The STS-135 and 2NE1 seem to be lipophilic because insuffulation worked to an extent, but by no means placebo. The breakdown of the cannibinoids in the Propylene Glycol suggest there lipophilic. These cannibinoids are supposedly inactive when used sub-lingually (which can show that it isn't water soluble at all), but can be absorbed in the stomach due to the acids breaking down the lipids.

Makes me wonder exactly what traits a chemical would need to have to be water-soluble. It looks like THC, 2NE1, and STS-135 all have a pentyl chain. Also, it looks like most fats are chains. Maybe this has something to do with it? I'm trying to find a water-soluble 'noid that I can simply mix with water and spray on herbs. All the O-xxxx noids are apparently water-soluble, and have a skeleton similar to THC, but it's near impossible for me to get my hands on any chemicals that bear any resemblance to THC.


And by the way, I'm on probation, so benzo and even thienodiazepines are a no-no. Perhaps something that's not AS lipophilic, like ketamine? Eh, this is cannabinoid discussion though so maybe I should shut up. =D
 
Yeah, it's pretty god awful (or satan awful). But, luckily, it doesn't last as long as losing your mind or ODing on 2C-I-Nbome, or DOB, and it's not nearly as frightening I think. If it lasted for hours I'd be scared shitless.

I'd rather trip balls than go through what I was going through... I felt poisoned.
 
Look up naphthyl moiety

It's probably not worse than smoking cigarettes anyway.

good to see that i am not the only one who can smoke or is smoking 5 plus a week . but really you dont get the smack withdrawls i do getting less now with use but most deffo style of illness i feel is on line with smack

I do get withdrawals, not just on par with codeine even. I try to see to it I always have a gram left to taper with, that way I only get minimal discomfort. Also some sedating anticholinergic to remove excessive sweating/nausea and feeling like I can't sit still and it's not that bad. It's like a hangover from alcohol really, always over the next day.
 
It's probably not worse than smoking cigarettes anyway.

Its not that simple.

One smoking organic tobacco saves themself from about 90% of carcinogenic activity, as opposed to your newports/marlboros. We all know that smoking anything has carcinogenic activity, and not just for the lungs. I'm sure we also have all seen someone who's been smoking for decades. They appear much older than they are - similar to a chronic stimulant abuser. Let's agree that smoking long-term causes a general aging and unhealthful body, exacerbated a lot by adulterants. Evidence is beyond conclusive.

As for the brain, similar to the case of marijuana, the jury is out as to whether tobacco causes or alleviates mental illness, though in this case it would most likely be bi-polar disorder/depression, not psychotic depression/schizophrenia. Here's an interesting one: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/196/6/425.full. I've read that tobacco simulates bi-polar disorder in the quick high and then low, which makes sense; that it does cause some noticeable brain damage in chain-smokers due to the accumulation of excessive carbon monoxide; that it is a risk factor for suicide (probably true); and that it may be neuroprotective overall, which after examining studies on tobacco and nicotine I currently am of the opinion. Tobacco in a relatively unadulterated form has been used by billions of people for thousands of years too. Now, again, to differentiate between organically grown tobacco and the pack of camels you pick up at Citgo, the sheer amount of added nasty chemicals added to the camels probably makes it overall neurotoxic, though the net effect on cognition is still probably beneficial. Nicotine is actually the only chemical I've read has rigorously been shown to improve cognition in healthy individuals. Here's good reading on the topic: http://medicolegal.tripod.com/toxicchemicals.htm.

Detrimental effects of synthetic cannabinoids are present, as the media has certainly let us know. However, they present themselves severely in both a mental and physical sense, even after sporadic or single use, including kidney failure, seizures, cardiotoxicity, severe agitation and anxiety, uncomfortable hallucinations persisting psychosis...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21970775
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21802885
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2012.04078.x/abstract
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6206a1.htm
https://www.novapublishers.com/cata...33380&osCsid=72c65b3e6e04af9dd78d127ed5962638

Of course they've only been around a couple years really, with clinical trials being few or non-existent; the mechanism of action of synthetic cannabinoids also varies widely, so its hard to generalize, but most are full agonists (i.e. they can go way above and beyond what any weed smoking can do, good or bad). Weed also contains chemicals, albeit usually in small amounts, which attentuate the psychosis-inducing potential of THC, so overall 'noids are weed on 'roids.

I would expect, if short-term effects are any indication, that long-term effects of synthetic cannabinoid use would include almost total dissolution of the mind in 95%+ of users, as well as organ failure. This latter effect can be seen in smokers, but more than likely after decades of use. In contrast to 'noids, smoking tobacco long-term, as I indicated above, may preserve cognitive function; some say it can lead to dementia, however given its mechanisms I don't quite see how (more than likely this is just another media/governmental scare tactic). And then there's the question of purity. Synthetic cannabinoid blends, just as most tobacco products, contain unknown chemicals (some of which are probably psychoactive and toxic) and various confounding factors.

The main difference I'm finding is that smoking tobacco in its pure form is moderately physically unhealthy and mentally benign or healthy in the long run, whilst smoking synthetic cannabinoids, even in their pure form, can lead to the rapid disintegration on both levels of health, without warning.

So, no, smoking synthetic cannbinoids may only be called more safe than tobacco smoking as regards addiction, which is disputable itself.

I don't recommend using either of these substances. I already have enough psychotic problems which I attribute to weed, which will go away but with time and habitual actions, and have recently quit smoking. This response kind of triggered me, good thing I don't have money.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
I would expect, if short-term effects are any indication, that long-term effects of synthetic cannabinoid use would include almost total dissolution of the mind

can you go into more detail on this?
 
I don't recommend using either of these substances. I already have enough psychotic problems which I attribute to weed, which will go away but with time and habitual actions, and have recently quit smoking. This response kind of triggered me, good thing I don't have money.

Someone in an earlier version of this thread said the same for synthetic cannabinoids vs. cannabis. I predictably got very agitated.
 
Do any of these noids pose a risk of having a dirty urine test on a standard 10-panel lab test? Obviously coming up dirty is not a risk that can be taken or else this question would not be asked.



Obviously reading the BLUA is an endeavor you have not undertaken as your entire posting is against the user agreement you entered upon joining bluelight.


(Also, concerning your drug test? You're pretty much fucked.)
 
People REALLY need to stop coming in here and posting "Synthetic noids withdrawls are just as bad as benzo or opiate withdrawls."

I stopped smoking yesterday (and today) for the first time in over a year (smoking alot of snyths every day). NO WITHDRAWLS whatsoever....

Stop spreading misinformation.
 
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