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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Girl in need of help, ignored.

W

westilina

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 17, 2001
Messages
54
Today my best friend called me in tears because she had just witnessed a girl dying. At a busy shopping mall in Fairfield (Sydney), a girl in her late teens to early twenties suffered a seizure and was ignored by all passers-by except my friend. After being refused help from a nearby doctor’s surgery, my friend then sought help from the mall’s security guard on behalf of the victim. The victim was convulsing, foaming at the mouth and her skin had turned blue. The guard proceeded to shock the victim with an electronic weapon before dragging her, semi-conscious, out of the shopping complex. When my friend saw the guard return without the victim, she tried to locate her outside the mall but was unable to find the girl. At no time was an ambulance called.
Somewhere in the streets of Fairfield, a girl lay in agony, suffering from a potentially fatal seizure. The cause of the seizure is unknown, and it is also irrelevant. A girl needed help and no one wanted to know about it. A mother or father somewhere will receive a phone call telling them that their daughter was either hospitalised (unlikely given the public apathy) or dead. How can people be so heartless? Just another overdose? Possibly. But what a person does in their spare time hardly justifies being looked upon and treated as an animal, shocked with an electronic device and pushed away. Swept under the rug to die, out of sight of the civilised world. A dog would have been given more attention. Had my friend foreseen the action taken by the mall’s security, she would have called the ambulance herself. Unfortunately, she had too much faith in strangers.
Public indifference makes me want to cry (which I did, while on the phone to my best friend). If you ever see a situation where someone needs help, please help them instead of judging them.
 
If this seriously happened, I hope you notified authorities and/or medical services yourself. What the guard did was disgusting if it happened the way you described it.
 
My friend did, and she is intending to follow up on the issue with the police and the mall involved.
[ 02 August 2002: Message edited by: westilina ]
 
This sounds like a shocking story westilina, I'm sad to hear of something like this occurring. Without wanting to appear callous, can I just check what relevance this has to Australian Drug Discussion? I mean - obviously this issue should be talked about, but should I put it in Social/Health Q&A or somewhere else more appropriate?
What would you like me to do?
BigTrancer :)
 
Strikes me as a (tragic but) interesting discussion point for Social - what would others have done in that situation?
 
So sorry to hear :(
If i had seen this happen i'd have called an ambo asap on my mobile and then i guess i'd put my jumper or jacket underneath their head & try to provide as much comfort as possible.
Not the best situation to be in, nor the easiest to handle.
 
This reminds me of a similar story that hit the papers a while back.
Neighbours actress Madeleine West was hit by a bus and knocked unconscious on the sidewalk in Kings Cross. Bystanders eventually came to her aid not before someone had picked her pockets clean however.
What's the world coming to?
 
The guard proceeded to shock the victim with an electronic weapon before dragging her, semi-conscious, out of the shopping complex
that disgusts me, how could someone do that... i really hope your friend follows it up and this guard is brought to justice.
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We live in an apathetic world run by greed where a few bank notes are valued more than human life. Its a disagrace and I to are horrified that not one person (other than your friend) showed any humanity or compassion to this person in distress.
[ 03 August 2002: Message edited by: Mr giggles* ]
 
I wonder the validity of this really. I have never had contact with ANY person who would not have helped a person in the situation mentioned. This story seems extremely far out to the point of being absurd. I doubt that community would survive if they related to each other in the way you mentioned. For some reason the story goes against the most fundemental survival instincts we have for ourselves and fellow humans.
It just boggles the mind really. Can anyone here visualise it? I just can't!
Can anyone validate this story?
 
Originally posted by Leprechaun:
Can anyone here visualise it?
Yep. Easily.
Ask anyone who knows someone with epilepsy what people are like when they have a seizure.
Then ask them if anyone normally helps.
Then ask them how many people just stare.
It makes you sad...
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...phew...that left me in a state of shock...and then I thought hey, aren't those stun gun devices illegal in Australia? I know you can't buy them, and as far as I’m aware there aren’t permits available for ownership or purchasing.
I could be wrong, but if the story did occur as told and stun guns are illegal, then these actions alone involve very serious offences.
Some less than satisfactory reasons as to why no-body was willing to help could be related to liability - Insurance etc. Perhaps the Dr’s surgery just wasn’t equipped for emergencies and admitting/ treating a patient without their consent or request could be more than tricky.
Maybe these seem very valid reasons to some people - how much you’d stand to lose in such situations? Yet if apathy is the real reason nobody assisted, it’s perhaps not so surprising, even if appears so inhuman. People are scared to help. Scared they may do the wrong thing, scared of unforeseen consequences, scared of having their routine life bumped into the unknown. It’s a form of the required adjusted human nature, necessary to survive the “Brazil” we now live in – Define the boarders of acceptable risk and stay well within. I guess it just reminds you how thankful we should be of emergency and welfare volunteers who give their time up to compensate a hundred fold for this common human frailty.
Jakoz, I know what you mean. If you’ve never seen anyone fit before, it can be a very freaky experience. And without knowing what to do, any attempted assistance could seriously endanger you, the sufferer, and any bystanders.
I witnessed a terrible incident at high school where a bunch of heavy dudes provoked an epileptic kid until he fitted. His response was extreme and he injured several of the big bullies before badly hurting himself on a bike stand. None of us knew what to do as his strength seemed incredible. The best we could hope to do was help when he stopped convulsing. In speaking to old school mates’ years later, I realized that this incident was indelibly stamped in all our minds.
In respect to the general population, epilepsy is a poorly understood disorder, and yet is relatively common. There are also several forms involving different areas of the brain. Some Basic CPR and emergency assistance courses cover awareness and early interventions involving seizures. Definitely worth doing if stories such as this make you think about how you would/could have handled the situation.
 
Tragic if it happened, but it sounds like an urban myth to me... ?
A friend of mine has seizures from time to time, it hasn't been attributed to epilepsy, matter of fact, the doctors don't know what causes them and brings them on. BUT, everytime he has had a seizure, he has been embarressed by the number of people that come to his aid to help in any way they can, not at the lack of people and the stun guns. Admittedly he doesn't give the appearance of an overdose victim, nor is he particualarly prone to wandering around shopping centres on his own, but he's never found himself completely without help.
Personally, i have stopped several times to help, my gf is a nurse, she's revived someone who was unconscious in a toilet block from an overdose one night out and we've stopped at a couple of road accidents to help, but we definately haven't been the only ones there. Although the attitude to the drug overdose from the police and ambo's was a little bit less than sympathetic.
While a shocking story, i tend to put a little bit more faith in humanity. A news-story or an account of any legal and police action would be nice to verify.
Increase the peace.
 
can you say "Kitty Genovese"? hows about "diffusion of responisbility"?
rent-a-cops do not have "electronic weapons"
while me asbestos suit holds out, i will venture this smell a bit o' bull.
 
I wanted to leave this open for the original poster to make comment regarding further information about the person's siezure, so we'd know if information came to light regarding prior drug ingestion, or otherwise. Also, to give the original poster right of reply to add more qualifying information or back up the story with further details as they became available.
Thread Reopened.
EDIT: I received the series of emails below, about this issue. [NB: I have edited names but no other editing has been carried out. BT]
From Westilina:
Big Trancer,
I am sorry for not responding sooner, I have limited internet access and time. Below is a letter from the witness. Her name is M and she is my best friend. She sent this account of Friday's incident to me and asked me to proof read it. However I did not want to alter it in any way, so as not to make it a secondary source, like my original post. I believe that the incident was very relevant to harm minimisation eg, helping people in a life threatening situation, and allowing people to post suggestions on how to go about helping someone in this situation. I would like you to consider reopening the thread. I am very concerned about this issue.
...
Thankyou for your time. I appreciate it.
Westilina.
From first-hand witness, M
To Big Trancer
I'm writing regarding a letter posted by my best friend westilina on the 2rd of aug. I lived in fairfield all my life, even though the place doesn't have the best reputation, i always belive it was a decent place with decent people. However i was shown a different side of the people of fairfield.
I know the areas arounds here have a huge herion problem, and a smacked out junkie is not a rare site. I don't approve of herion use, living around here i seen more the ones person's life distoryed by herion addictions. But these are people with a drug problem, there addiction are no different to a gambling or drinking addiction, they are people that need help and understanding from the community.
Last friday I was in a busy fairfield shopping centre off the main street. i walked passed a bench were there was a girl in her twenty's. It was pretty clear from this girl's appearences she was a herion user. Her eyes were close and her head hanging back, her whole neck had swelled to the size of her head, and it looked like her thoat was convulsing and small amounts of foam was collecting around the corners of her mouth. She was making a really horraible gluping nosies and her face was starting to go a pale blue-ish colure.
It seemed people had no problem slowing down and staring at this girl, some people even had the nerve to stop and watch for a few mins like she was some kind of freakshow. Not a single one of these people did anything at help her ,not a single one of them did anything to stop this women from dying from an overdose in the middle of a shopping centre. Had it been a dogs dying there and not a junkie i think more people stopped to help.
I had no mob on me,so i went to the doc's surgery in the shopping centre i told them to call an ambulance, instead they sent me to the centre's management. Their i explained the situtation to mangement and he sent security guard with me to see the women. He tried shaking her and there was no response or change to her state.
He went back to mangement, and so did i. There i reminded those two asshole that while they wasted time a living person was dying, i asked agin that they call the ambulance. The manegement guy went on to tell me the ambulance's gets the shit if it's a fake overdose, i guess u need to die these days for it to be a real overdose. Next thing i know the security guard walking back to her, what i saw next is competly aginst the law and totally morally wronge. This wanker uses a electronic weapon on her.
This poor women's whole body jumped she fall in to a fetal position and began dry reaching. At this point the guard picked her up from the sholders and guided her out, she couldn't even walk with out support. the police station is around the corner from the centre and i thought he was taking her there. He came back shortly and there no way he would have had time to go to the police station, i realised he just kicked her out of the centre.
i went to look for her because i was scared she was overdosing in the gutter somewhere. i was really really worried this poor girl was dying. The fact that she is an herion user doesn't change the fact that she is a living beathing person. This wasn't just a junkie having an overdosing this was a young women who may have had friends and family that loved her dying in a public place with no one showing an compassion. i felt responable for not calling the ambulance myself and going to that fucked up unhummian management office.
i looked for her but could not find her. i was really worried about the safty of this women, thats when i called westilina. Later that day she wrote to your forum to express her disguss. I know it sounds unbelivable, before this i would have never ever have thought people could be so cruel and heartless. But they can and i was there to witness it.
I can happily say i contacted fairfield police , i asked if any overdose where found, and they hadn't found any females of that discrption, i hope with all my heart this women is still alive and maybe can get some help for herself . And to all the people who just walked pass u sould hang your heads in shame knowing you letf another human being to suffer.
The whole thing was reported to the police they weren't quiet surprise or even overly concerned with the women health. But at least they know about the dickhead graud and his use of an ellegal weapon, and i hope action will be taken aginst him. He sould at least loss his job considering someone almost lost their life.
I think people need to know when things like this happen. Drug use is such a common thing in our society ,people from all walks of life, people of different ages have expermented or use drugs of some sort. Unforturnlly some of those people have lost control of their drug habbits and are now addicts. These addicts are not animals, they normal people with a problem.
Who are we to pass judgement, what makes someone who pops e's every weekend or smokes the occusion bong a better person them some one that regulily does herion, or even someone who doesn't touch drugs. Drugs are a reality in our world, and as long as people do them addicts will exist. But what we all need to keep in mind is the fact that we are all human beings, we all are born,we breath, we feel pain and we all die, no person deseaves to be lift to die by there fellow man, no matter what substances they put in their body. And i think this is a very relevent topic for your formum.
Thanks, M
[ 05 August 2002: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]
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That's a really, really sad situation :(
I find it quite hard to visualise - society sinking to that kind of low... It's almost as if people don't care if it isn't someone they know. Although, some people might get scared seeing someone in the state you've described, for people who've never seen something like that it'd be a very confronting moment. Regardless, not calling an ambulance is really careless, in fact I think it's unjustifiable. If I was there, once I'd called an ambulance, I'd proceed to harass any onlookers with the thought of it being them on that bench, and other thoughtless fools staring on & doing nothing about their situation.
Thank fuck someone had some simple human decency left in them, respect to 'M'. Thanks for sharing the story guys.
:)
 
Sadly, the majority of society just don't give a fuck about an overdose victim. What really makes me sick however is a couple of responses here, like "sounds like an urban myth" and "a news story would be nice to verify"
Try opening your minds a little, anything is possible. And just because stun guns are illegal, I know at least 3 ppl who own one. So just because you and your friends haven't seen or heard of anything like this in your world, doesn't mean it's not possible.
Well now here's my story about the apathy of the general public: I was with a friend who had overdosed in broad daylight with quite a lot of ppl around, I"m freaking out cos i've never been in that situation before and don't have a phone, so I start screaming for someone to help me. Then a car pulls up and asks me for directions to Smith Street and doesn't even ask me if I need help even though it's glaringly obvious. Thankfully the needle exchange was a couple of doors down and the staff came to my assistance.
So there you go.
Phew, glad i got that off my chest.
 
Hi, thanks everyone for caring enough to reply. Obviously, this situation upset me.
I just wanted to show my disgust of society, and hopefully make fellow bluelighters aware that situations might arise where their help is required, and that a person's life is worth a few minutes (or whatever)of their time.
Thankyou to Bluelight for reopening the thread.
Westilins.
 
What really makes me sick however is a couple of responses here, like "sounds like an urban myth" and "a news story would be nice to verify"
Try opening your minds a little, anything is possible. And just because stun guns are illegal, I know at least 3 ppl who own one. So just because you and your friends haven't seen or heard of anything like this in your world, doesn't mean it's not possible.
Something you come across written on a public message board about drug use, on the internet of all places, and you expect people not to take it with a massive grain of salt?? Shit, i hardly believe half the stories i read in the newspaper, and they have to have a little more credibility than internet accounts of stun gun weilding security guards, overdose deaths in broad daylight and "friend of a friend" happenings.
Nearly all the people telling stories about drug scene hapennings or incidents are spouting urban legends, misinformation or just plain made up fiction, why should on here be any different?
"Anything is possible" - as is that the whole thing was made-up.
How can it be "close-minded" to not believe stories you have no way of testing the veracity of? It seems to me to be akin to the people who don't support a left-leaning political agenda and their "racist, heartless, close-minded nazi" attitudes that they get accused of.
Like i said above - personally i put a little bit more stock in humanity, and from *my* experience things like that seem totally out of my realm of happenings, so i made comment. Most of the people i know and associate with would have stopped, or at the very least called an ambulance for them.
I guess like the old saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyones got them, and most of them stink". I'm sure mine reek.
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"Don't just call me pessimist, try and read between the lines." - MJK
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I'm going to take the unpopular view here and say that the reason nobody helped is because they didn't want to put themselves at any risk. It's an animal instinct to look out for yourself first - sometimes humans forget that we're actually animals too...
If I saw what was happening and saw that there was a security guard there, I'd probably walk away as well. I'm not trying to be overly callous or cruel, but threads like this are renowned for people getting up on their high-horse and preaching shit about how much humanity sucks, usually without stopping and thinking about what they themselves would have really done in the same situation. I'll admit that I wouldn't have the first clue what to do to "stop her from overdosing", as has been suggested everyone should have done. Maybe if everyone there had bought their magic wands on the day something could have been done.
Don't get me wrong, it would have been great for everyone to have helped. And if there was someone there with medical training that didn't do anything then that would be pretty crap. But I put it to you that everyone ignored her because they didn't have any idea what to do and they were scared themselves. Does this make the innocent bystander who turned away evil and a blight on humanity?
If anyone out there has ever helped someone in need, then this post is not directed at you, so don't take it as an attack. In fact I salute you. This post however is directed at the people that would have done exactly the same thing as the passers-by in the situation above, and then have the nerve to accuse them of being scum.
 
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