Bupe weening off suboxone with oxy?

Hi, after several years of daily suboxone use that I started for a previous opiate addiction, I am finally ready to call it quits. I am only in the 2nd day of no suboxone and it has already been quite tough. I have been trying to substitute the suboxone for 40-60mg's of oxy per day, because my original thoughts were that if I can use it during the first week of being off suboxone, that it may help with the acute wd's, however now im not so sure that it works that way.

Can anyone tell me if this strategy helps with the acute suboxone withdrawals and that if I were to stop the oxy after one week would the suboxone withdrawals be much more dealable? Im starting to read that suboxone withdrawals last a VERY long time, so im a bit worried that this isnt going to work.... any advice is appreciated.

Honestly that would practically undo what you've been trying to do with the suboxone. At what dosage did you jump off at? Bupe w/d isn't all that bad, I'd say tough it out for a little while longer. If you're already on your 2nd day then you're almost home free.

I think you need to give us alot more information before we can accurately give you an answer as ALOT of what happens to you and alot of what you feel when you are going through the transition from sub's to no subs is dependant upon MANY factors, including what dose of suboxone you were on for the majority of your maintanence, did you taper down before you quit, how long did you taper, at what dose did you jump off of?....all of those are critical questions that will help someone understand your situation better and consequently answer your questions better.
I can tell you that the longer you taper, and the lower your dose is when you jump off(lower than 0.5mg's hopefully) the less pain you will go through when trying to quit subs alltogether, even if you are using oxy as an aid.

You can do it, just use the absolute minimum amount of oxy, and only to relieve the w/d. Suboxone w/d generally lasts around 2 weeks, so in that 2 weeks you're basically going to switch your addiction to the lowest dose of OC that you can. From there, taper the last little bit and it will be much better than enduring two weeks or so of Suboxone withdrawal.

PS- There is probably bupe still built up in your system and that is what would require you to take 60mg doses of oxy or whatever. You need to shoot for a much lower number than that, and that may be easier once all of the bupe is off of your receptors...

ok, sorry for the lack of info, I was kind of in a hurry when posting that. But ok, I had a 4 or 5 year opiate addiction, and got on suboxone, and ive been on suboxone for about 3 years give or take a lil, and id say my average dose over that time would be 1 - 1.5mg insuffilated, twice a day. One in the morning and one in the evening time. I stayed pretty close to that dose for most of those 3 years.

I didnt start at quite that high of a dose, but over time I unknowingly/unthinkingly replaced one addiction with another, and found myself relying on my subby to get through my days, as without it I would feel very depressed and just generally like shit. Not to mention the fact that ive been battling depression most of my life which im sure doesnt help matters.

Anyway, torward the end I did try to taper, although I didnt have much subby to do a proper taper. I started tapering when I had about 2 subs left, and during the last week of it I was able to taper down a good bit, down to about 2/3rds of my usual morning dose, and got my evening dose down to 1/4th the norm. And on the very last day I did just one single dose of about 1/2 what I normally do.

Tried to plan ahead and maybe substitute the subs for a low dosage of something else to help keep the wd's at bay - enter the new crap op's into the picture

So the next day - 60mg, felt nice, and of course kept the wd's away. I was actually a bit mad at myself because I thought to myself that I could have stayed at a lower dose and been able to save more for later. I want to quit bad enough that I just want to take enough to get thru the tough part, not to get high.

Thing is that night when the oxy started to wear off, I felt wd's creeping up on me, I was able to fall asleep but kept waking up over and over and over all thruout the night, had some VERY bad shaky legs going on, couldnt keep still, and was sweating pretty bad. Woke up again and got up, and was in a full out sweatfest and felt like I was in a icebox.

I was thinking damn... I really want to try to stick to one oxy dose a day, but it doesnt seem to be cutting it. 2nd day, only took 40mg's, worked fine, but had to dose again with 20mg's to keep the bad feeling from coming on again.

And I dont know why, but it seems that my stomach acid's have always been very strong, and knowing this from prior experience I figured the op's wouldnt be so bad, and I was right. They are nearly as strong for me as a ir dose of the same amount, and only last about double the length of time an ir dose would.

Stuff also seems to clear from my system at the absolute quickest of averages - I seem to be able to get full effects from full agonists after less than 24 hours after stopping subby dosages. I guess everyones different, but in all of my life's escapades, it does seem like I got lucky there. Also, out of all other opiates, I seem to be hypersensitive to codeine - I know it seems like bs, but it literally feels like I get somewhere between a 33-50% morphine return within my system from codeine. Its nuts, ive never heard of anyone else getting those type of effects from it.

So thats it, thats the story. Sorry its so long but I wanted to give as much info as possible. By the way, im just an average cat that just wants to get clean finally.... is any of this stuff that I shouldnt be talking about on here?

And I just want to know what to expect from my situation, and how long I should try to stretch the oxy out to beat the bad part of the wd's, yet not doing it long enough to get re addicted to the oxy. I imagine its a fine line...

This doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Im new to the forum and have succesfully withdrawn from both Oxy and Sub on separate occasions. If you are lookin for something to make the WD go away research Kratom. That would be a much better opiate to transfer your addiction to and then try and kick as it's WD are MUCH milder than sub.

I will however admit that because of subs longer half-life (36 hours) than OC (9 hours), sub WD is harder and lasts longer than OC WD.

Keep in mind though, the whole point of sub is that it's so much easier to taper off of precisely because of it's lengthy half-life and lack of euphoria. OC on the other hand is so hard to self taper that Sub had to be invented.

Good luck.

Using oxy to stop subs is like almost like using dope to stop subs...might seem to make sense to you at the moment but it really is not smart because it has almost a zero percent chance of working

here is a good saying...insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

why did u use suboxone? because you couldn't stop oxy...now you can't stop suboxone so you want to stop it with oxy...and the circle continues...when you w/d from suboxone you feel so shitty that you want to take subs...when you w/d from subs you feel so shitty that you want to take oxy...

so what do you do? most logical to me would be to find something that might take the w/d away but that you could possibly handle the w/d from

You can try to use oxy but most likely you will end up having to use subs again after that week on oxy because oxy causes even stronger w/d than subs, they just last longer but they are not any weaker but in fact much more intense. I lasted til day 8 on subs and it wasn't getting any better.

The only time that I stopped opiates from a considerable amount of time was when used tramadol after using subs. I used the tramadol for 2-3 weeks about the lenght of the worst of sub w/d and then I used valium for a week, then I stopped. I was extremely suprised about how manageable the w/d was. Some weak RLS and not sleeping well were my only symptoms which the valium helped with. It really is the only was I would again attempt opiate w/d. The reasons I am on opiates again is due to pain which did not go away after an extended time off opiates. Also know that after the acute w/d stops there is PAWS. Some people use SSRIs for that to increase your chances of success cuz it is a really hard time to get through. Once you can go a few months w/o opiates you'll be in thee clear.

Z Y G G Y said:

Using oxy to stop subs is like almost like using dope to stop subs...might seem to make sense to you at the moment but it really is not smart because it has almost a zero percent chance of working

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That actually isnt true. Alot of addiction specialist doctors use full agonists like oxy to help there patient off of subs much more smoothly. They do it al the time.
So, I can guarantee you that it doesnt have"zero percent chance of working"...because, it does work for alot people....i just think that its important to be on a low dose of subs throughout your maintanence(under 2mg's) and stay on the plan for a long time.....long enough to get your mind out of that drug users mindset so that when you do finally quit using the subs, you can easily take oxy to help out the discomfort without having to worry too much about relapsing. You just have to know that you strong enough to resist temptation.
I for one, am so glad I was on suboxone, not only did it drastically lower my opiate tolerance, but it also allowed me to get back into the groove of living a normal life, and I think that has alot to do with the fact that I can stop taking suboxone anytime I want with no withdrawals(that and only taking tiny doses a day) and have no temptations or urges to use again.

All very good advice - I am curious about the tramadol idea... that may be something ill want to try.

and JamesBrown, I am in that boat where I at least feel that I am getting away from the drug users mindset, and I believe I am prepared to do this and stop using for good. I am sick of using subs as a "life satisfier" type drug, it just keeps me satisfied with my current quality of life, which is quite lousy at this time. I want to have the drive again to make improvements to my life, and the subs or any other opiate doesnt allow me to do this. I want to have the drive to do the things I used to love to do again.

This is why I seriously want to use the minimum oxy dosage that I have to, simply to ease the wd's. Im not doing it to get a buzz. As long as the oxy doesnt somehow prolong the wd's from the subs, then I have confidence that after a week or two of helper doses, I can quit without wanting to go back. The ONLY thing that will tempt me is if the wd symptoms are bad, it wont be to try and get high again.

I do have a couple questions though. For one, I was looking into alternative things besides anti depressants, as I was on them for a while and didnt see much improvement in my depression.

I bought a bottle of 5-htp and L-tyrosine today, and am hoping to self medicate to try to help with the paws that are sure to follow. Ive also heard that they help with RLS (restless legs). which are one of the things that have been driving me up the WALL for the past couple nights, its really been messing up my sleep. My question is has a combination of 5-htp and l-tyrosine taken 2 to 3 times daily been shown to help with these things?

And second, would small doses of oral morphine help with the wd symptoms? I ask because I remember once before trying to taper off with small doses of morphine and it was the one opiate that seemed to do nothing to help the wd symptoms, I noticed myself withdrawaling just as hard the next day as if I hadnt taken anything at all. Ive read that oral morphine has a hard time passing the bbb (blood brain barrier), so could it not be a good solution for keeping wd's at bay?

And thank you guys so much for the advice thus far, it has been very helpful.

i was going to post something similar to this earlier. ive been on suboxone for about 3 weeks now and i want off. its costing me a shit load and i just want to be completely opiate free.

i take 2mg daily and today is my 2nd day only taking 1mg. i was thinking of continuing to take 1mg for the next 2 days then maybe .50mg x 2 days and see how bad the WDs are from that...i have ten 10mg methadones and was wondering how i should use these when the sub WDs hit. or should i even use them at all?

thanks guys

hydrochron said:

It actually works quite well, Especially if it's not your first time quiting sub. Becuase I know that most people dont want to quit that shit more then once, I mean the withdrawal last 2 weeks.

I was sick for about 7 days, I just remember sweating and feeling so shitty, there's no better feeling then ending all of that in about a second haha. Take oxy for a few days and then stop, and no withdrawal. I think if you do it right you can trick your body like I did.

So everyone that's saying it's a bad plan, probably hasn't done it or doesn't know what there talking about.

This method works great; suboxone withdrawal is terrible, and this is a way to ease it.

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any withdrawal is terrible.

Take oxy for a few days and then stop, and no withdrawal? tricking your body like you did? everyone is different, keep that in that one track mind of yours.

sounds like you don't know what your talking about.

BlueberryfishY said:

any withdrawal is terrible.

Take oxy for a few days and then stop, and no withdrawal? tricking your body like you did? everyone is different, keep that in that one track mind of yours.

sounds like you don't know what your talking about.

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Excuse me but who the fuck are you ?

I only speak from personal experiences. You shouldn't post on this forum if you just go around and guess/speculate. Suboxone withdrawal is fucking horrible and like a watered down version of methadone withdrawal in terms of duration.

So taking a full agonist opiod can actually let you return back to normal alot quicker. Sense the post actute withdrawal from suboxone last months, you can eliminate that using a full agonist.

Again the forum would be better off without dumb asses like your self.8)

This is my first post I have ten years experience with all kinds of opiates.
If i were you, I would ween myself off the subbys as suboxone addiction is far more preferable to methadone/opiate/OC addiction. If you have gone 2 days cold turkey already, you will be needing a reduced amount of suboxone for daily maintenance. imo reducing at the rate of 1 mg/week is hardly noticeable. when you get to 4 mg/day make it 0.5mg/week. when you get to 1 mg/day, reduce by 0.2mg every week. after this you will find that over the counter co-codamol can help with restlessness/sleeping.
My experience is that even after being off opiates for months, just 2-3 days usage can mean that you are right back facing serious withdrawals again. If you have been addicted to something, it hardly takes anything to become addicted again.
Stick with the subbys, anything else is just relapsing.
This is what i would reccommend, but you have probably decided by now whether to start the OCs again!

Regards, Matt.

The problem with tapering bupe is that even if you get to a very low dose, say 0.5mg or less/ day, you are still going to w/d for a long time most likely. This is the whole point of using the shorter acting meds. Bupe and methadone are both good maintenance drugs, but the long duration will prolong withdrawal considerably.

You're doing it wrong OP!

LabMat said:

Stick with the subbys, anything else is just relapsing.
This is what i would reccommend, but you have probably decided by now whether to start the OCs again!

Regards, Matt.

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Thanks for the advice, however if you had read my posts, you can see that I have already started to taper down with the OC's, so yes, I had already decided to do so. And frankly, it seems to be working. I just got done with the OC's yesterday, and the wd's are already quite a bit better than they were at night, which is when I really start to feel them.

I am now doing the tramadol thing, and am going to try that for about a week. So far so good, things are getting easier.

Also, it seems like its a tossup on the way im going with this, one post someone says great idea, next post someone says terrible idea. However, it seems like all the mods and longterm bluelighters agree with my method, and sorry, but im more inclined to trust their word over anyone elses. Not saying theyre absolutely right, but thats the word id trust.

Oh, and to the guy who said theyve been on subby for 3 weeks, I wouldnt worry too much, 3 weeks is nothing and your wd's shouldnt be too horrible being on the subs for such a short amount of time.

In my opinion though, I would try to ween off them quickly, considering you havent been on them very long to begin with. Taking months to ween off a 3 week habit is just prolonging your usage unnecessarily, and is going to end up making you wd even more from prolonged usage.

I say use an agressive ween off plan, but at the end try to get your dosage down as low as humanly possible. Id drop down to .50 immediately, suboxone is active at very low doses, so it should keep you out of wd's no problem, and then .25 mg's or so for the last few days, to where you dont feel it at all. Then if the wd's are too much for you to bear, try taking a small dose of tramadol twice a day to help for the first week or two. Keep in mind that I am in no way an expert and am just giving my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

I actually wish I had done the tramadol thing from the getgo, cus I imagine it is true that taking oxy to ween off of subs is a risk, because you could get mentally addicted again to the full agonist high of the oxy. Tramadol you wont have that problem. Luckily I am strong of mind enough to not let the oxy do me in like that, and I dont plan on ever going back to it. Good luck.

I have been on suboxone for a little over a year because of oxy addiction. Started with 16mgs. Then 8. Felt shitty for a week, but eventually adjusted to that dose. Recently have been taken down to 4mgs a day. Much harder to adjust to that reduction.

Ran out two weeks early as a result of stupidity and side effects. Doctor was very pissed off about me running out, (on the 4th) and post dated the script for the 10th.

I completely understand his reaction. I know that he has to cover his ass and I needed to be put in my place.

That being said, I feel that Drs. should not taper patients 50% at a time. 25% would make it much easier and alleviate some of the problems I have exsperienced.

I went to two walk in clinics with flu like symptoms (wds) and got tramidol, zofran, and strait up asked the second Dr. for vicodin. Got very lucky on that one.

Felt fine first two days. Got a little achy, had a bad headache the next couple days. called out sick the last two days, feeling the worst the final day. Was able to ration all pills as to not run out until final night.

I feel like I was close to the end of the worst of the WD's the next morning and second guessed picking up script. I really want to get off of sub's. Having other meds to take while comming off is very helpfull obviously. Im just not sure how long the detox off of sub's will take in the end.

Don't screw around with this medication. Do not run out and take it as briefly as you possibly can. Good luck!

Tramidol seemed to help much better than the hydro. Go figure? One more thing. I fell that the hardest part of sub wd's is the psycological aspect. It really fucks your head up.

I personally wouldn't try to wean my self off of the subs with a drug like oxycontin. I'm also "weaning" myself off of the oxy, except my doctor has decided to prescribe me my own scripts for the Oxycontin down to only one 20 a day, but she's prescribed me 7 prescriptions in 9 months euqalling out to 242 20 mg pills. I can honestly say that this "weaning" off isnt helping me one bit, but thats because im abusing them and the script is gone in like 2-3 days. Maybe you have a stronger will power than me so it could work with you.

Best bet is to not use any opiates at all but if you must, I agree with using the tramadol or even some tylenol 1's (with codeine) if your in Canada. Also im sure your doctor knows your going through this addiction, ask him if he can prescribe you clonidine. For some people they clonidine is terrible and make there w/d's ALOT worse, but from my own experience they help out quite a bit. I find they really help with the RLS, the excessive sweating and help you sleep a bit.

Just my .02, i know what your going through!