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Bupe weening off suboxone with oxy?

ThE B MaN said:
Oh, and to the guy who said theyve been on subby for 3 weeks, I wouldnt worry too much, 3 weeks is nothing and your wd's shouldnt be too horrible being on the subs for such a short amount of time.

In my opinion though, I would try to ween off them quickly, considering you havent been on them very long to begin with. Taking months to ween off a 3 week habit is just prolonging your usage unnecessarily, and is going to end up making you wd even more from prolonged usage.

I say use an agressive ween off plan, but at the end try to get your dosage down as low as humanly possible. Id drop down to .50 immediately, suboxone is active at very low doses, so it should keep you out of wd's no problem, and then .25 mg's or so for the last few days, to where you dont feel it at all. Then if the wd's are too much for you to bear, try taking a small dose of tramadol twice a day to help for the first week or two. Keep in mind that I am in no way an expert and am just giving my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

I actually wish I had done the tramadol thing from the getgo, cus I imagine it is true that taking oxy to ween off of subs is a risk, because you could get mentally addicted again to the full agonist high of the oxy. Tramadol you wont have that problem. Luckily I am strong of mind enough to not let the oxy do me in like that, and I dont plan on ever going back to it. Good luck.
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Thanks B Man for the reassurance I got from your post. I've been on subs (24mg/day) for a little over a month and I'm scared shitless. I'm also scared for my (now) pregnant wife. I've quit subs cold after a very quick taper, 24-16-16-8-8 and now nothing for 30 hours so far. I don't notice too much yet, but I feel the familiar agitation with what is coming.

Should I stay at zero or should I take 2mg tonight then possibly skip a day and then 2mg, etc.? From what I've read, 30 days isn't too big a deal but I was a heavy H user before this. I'm not worried about using that again or any other opiod, and I've got loads of sub left. Anyone tried skipping days as a taper immediately after being on such a high does?

Also, I'd like to smack (!) my doctor around awhile. He wanted me on 32mgs daily for 6 months! When I asked him about coming off that he was like "it will only take a week". Not from what I've read here.
 
I agree with Dinkus.

The reason most of us get put on suboxone to begin with is because we are opiate addicts. In theory weening off suboxone with oxy sounds reasonable, but if it were me I would have a hard time, and for some could lead into a full blown opiate addiction again.
 
I am new to this sight, so hello everyone. I recently was on suboxone for about 3 months,, but had to go go back on pain pillsdue to surgery in another couple of weeks. Hope to go back onsuboxone very soon after, wonderful drug. It is good to know this forum exists, you dont fee" so all alone.
 
Personally, if I went from taking subs, which is basically giving you 0 euphoria aside from a possible mood life to a euphoric full agonist would immediately flip the addiction switch from off to on. Just be careful to only use the minimum needed to stay well. You can always redose, so dose as low as possible and if you're still sick, take a little more. For what you're doing, it's always going to be better to under dose than to dose more than necessary because you can always take more.
 
Pretty pointless idea.. If anything you will have WORST w/ds from he oxy if you use for a few days..

Honestly man you shouldve tapered lowest possible and just dealt with sub wd/s..

Id say your chances of staying clean is not good if you actually hope to successfully "taper" with oxy's.....


Sub WD sucks... and first of all the real WD doesnt even really start till like day 2-3 with subs cause of the long half life...
 
weaning off subs with oxy's is like weaning off a porn addiction with hookers.

i think you need to just leave oxy's out of the picture here...you were on the right track with tapering your sub dose. there is no magical way to get off opiates, there's going to be a period of feeling uncomfortable that unfortunately is almost unavoidable. i think you just need to take some time off from life, deal with your WD's, and just get through it however best you can. you were doing the right thing with the subs. going back to O's, in my opinion, is taking a step in the wrong direction.


i tried going cold turkey from a 3 year, 200 mg/day oxy habit. i wanted to be done with it extremely bad, and (with a little help from loperamide) roughed it through the worst of the 7 day WD (sweaty, chills, back/leg pain etc). i was prepared so i got through it. what i found almost more difficult, was once the real bad WD symptoms faded, the empty/bored/depressed feeling i had for about a month afterwards. i thought that once the WD was done, I'd somehow get "back to normal", but i learned it's a much higher mountain to climb. i was having a real hard time getting through the day, even though most of the physical symptoms had subsided. i went on suboxone for about 9 months and slowly tapered to nearly nothing, and trust me, coming off the subs (for me anyway) was much easier than oxy's. you need to take time and decrease your tolerance and allow your body to restore itself to a somewhat normal state.

so basically, my advice to you and anyone trying to get off dope...get on subs and DO NOT rush yourself off of it. slowly taper over months, even years. the whole time your body is downregulating receptors and slowly getting back to normal. hardly news to many, but i wish i had this knowledge about a year ago when i first attempted kicking my habit.

quitting is a long process, and unless you really want it, there's a good chance it WILL NOT happen. i think you're in the right state of mind, and i think the oxy's have a good chance of putting you a good deal backwards in your recovery. i wish you the best.
 
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i understand what your trying to do but after the week you will make your w.d alot worse, but probably last shorter by a lil. Take busloads of loperamide, its really a miracle. I just came off a 6 year heroin( i.v 1 year)/ suboxone( 2years)/ (3 years)oxy/opana habit and what helped was going to a detox/rehab and taking loperamide, seroquel at night to sleep, vistaril (hydroxzine), clonidine(lowers blood pressure), phenergan (promethazine), ibuprofen. this combination saved my ass and it actually put me to sleep in w.d which was amazing ! if u have access to benzos use them, just dont use them more than a couple days in a row. Smoking weed will also help with the boredom, appetite, and depression. U can do this man, stay strong! dont take the oxys, your just prolonging your withdrawals as others have said. I know its hard but try to exercise and eat alot of sugar, they both release endorphins. good luck to you bro, keep it up and dont ever give up, waking up without being dopesick everyday its a fucking miracle and a half. it was worth the pain 100 percent. Im happier sober than i've ever been in my life.

if u must take an opiate go with the weaksauce, not oxy which has worth w.d than i.v heroin IMO. If u can get tramadol or codeine that would work, low doses as possible of course....
 
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quick question. I have been following your posts, JB , Capt. H etc. for almost a year not to blow smoke but you really help alot of people on this board. it's actually very cool how i see it play out. Anyway ..i am going to taper down off bupe as low as i can, hopefully 0.25 range. if i were to than jump on a light sao, hydro or maybe ultram perhaps? and than wean off how long do you purport that I taper ? or i guess my question is .. going from low dose bupe to sao. how quickly should i get OFF the sao for the least possible pain. I have withdrawn many times in the past so i know better than to presume i can get off scot free... no chance .. just trying to ease the process ya know? i still need to be functional. w/ the question out of the way like i said earlier it is really cool typing BLas i feel you are a rock star of sorts :) here at bluelight and i am proud that after 10 months of following your advice and wisdom i worked up the courage to write you .. any advice would be appreciated. peace SP
 
SatchelPee said:
Anyway ..i am going to taper down off bupe as low as i can, hopefully 0.25 range. if i were to than jump on a light sao, hydro or maybe ultram perhaps? and than wean off how long do you purport that I taper ?
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I am wondering the same thing. I have been on Subutex for 6 months and take about 8mg's a day, plugged. I have tried tapering and actually got down to 4mg's sublingual for awhile, but I've relapsed a couple of times and now I am back to 8mg's. If I only take 4mg's in the morning, I start to feel light w/d symptoms by midday.

Anyways, I am thinking of trying to wean myself off the subs by using Norco 10/325's. However, according to the narcotic equivalence calculator found here: http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html
I would have to take 100-200mgs of hydro to match 8mgs of bupe 8o!

Surely I would not have to take that much to stave off w/d's. Anyone have any experience with using hydro to wean off of bupe? Also, what is the general consensus on splitting your dose vs taking it all at once?
 
same

ive in a similiar situation. been taking bupe at a semi low dose of 1-2 mg per day for approx. 3 months. source is dry and now im looking at either c/t or have my wife give me 5mg oxy every few hours b/c thats all she'll do. it was a taper plan i had told her about previously. anyone think it would help or just delay the inevitable?
 
i was an oxy addict for 2 years prior to the bupe but dont have the desire to chase the high anymore.
 
^That's a good plan IMO, especially since you can't get more than that... There is no need to feel the full brunt of w/d IMO, take it in steps and it will go much more smoothly. 5mg oxy isn't a huge amount, you may have to stockpile two at first to get any appreciable relief and then get down to one ASAP. Spreading out your doses more and more over time will be helpful as well.
 
we'll see how it goes in the next few days. so far i'm actually suprised that it even helps at a dose that small but its a hell of a lot better than just c/t
 
yeah the amt of subs u were taking is gonna make the oxy not even work unless u give it about 4 days......if u do manage to feel the oxy u r going up hill with the whole process. i would just reduce your doses of suboxone until ure on a tiny dose and the try to go CT with help of some otc's.
 
You're better off tapering off with subs, you can break them into pieces as small as you need, I'm a little confused as to why you want to use oxy for this. Between different people reacting to different opiates in different ways and sketchy conversion rates, just stick to your subs.
 
yes the tramadol is IME the best way to taper off bupe. That's what I just did. Minimal RLS and insomnia were the only two problems. I used some valium/xanax for that and supplements. Also exercise and eat a lot to build up your body.

Using a short acting opiate is IME by far the best way to stop suboxone. There is just absolutely no reason to go on tapering for a year by crumbs. You can jump from something like 4mg sub to tramadol for 10-14 days and then treat the rest of symptoms w/o opiates.

It's the easiest way.

I just feel that the oxy is a little over the top thou. I'd use the weakest opiate you can get which is tramadol.

But then also watch out for PAWS. That's what might get you to go back to subs. Subs have some antidepressant properties just like tramadol and once u stop that u get PAWS.

Maybe try seeing a shrink to maximize your chance of getting through that first one or two months cuz those will be the hardest. I have an appointment tomorrow. Prolly will go on something for a month or two so I can feel like doing stuff and not go back to subs.

Oh and I have several experiences of my and others first hand on getting off suboxone so I think I have some weight here over people who think its wrong what he's doing but have less or no experience.

And I'm myself off opiates right now.

So when I tried doing the taper, it was really hard. I would go up and down and again and over again. So I stopped at like 2mg. First 4-5 days very alright. But after that the next 3 unbearable. RLS from hell was by far the worst symptom. Mentally I was good, light was lighter, sounds were better, birds chirping was awesome and all that stuff. But from the RLS I would spend hours in the tub and walk miles and it seemed to never end or get better. So I went back to subs.

Then after some time on subs I decided to try tramadol. And it worked. 100-200mg per day. Less as you go on. 50 for the last few days. 14 top days total I'd say. 10 might be enough. Then minimal RLS and some insomnia and uncomfort during sleep for like a week and that's it. You can use symptomatic meds if needed but might not even be necessary.

I really was amazed at how easy it was.

And I'm a weakling when it comes to w/d and saw others struggle through the taper and w/d and do it. So it can be done either way but some ways are just easier. No question about it in my mind.
 
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that is a awesome withdraw acct ziggy. what kind of opiates were you on when you switched to subs and how much??? then what dose did u use of subs to taper off the original opiate? how long did it take you reducing subs to get to a point that was low enough to jump off subs and go on tramadol. i assume u had to wait till the sub was out of your system some what. i deff might combine this with some other techniques after my surgery when i get off these blasted pleasure pills..
 
boyshoots2thrill said:
i was going to post something similar to this earlier. ive been on suboxone for about 3 weeks now and i want off. its costing me a shit load and i just want to be completely opiate free.

i take 2mg daily and today is my 2nd day only taking 1mg. i was thinking of continuing to take 1mg for the next 2 days then maybe .50mg x 2 days and see how bad the WDs are from that...i have ten 10mg methadones and was wondering how i should use these when the sub WDs hit. or should i even use them at all?

thanks guys
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Please do not take methadone to ease w.d's from bupe' !! That is totally backwards
 
A little off subject here...I have a feeling a reformulated version of buprenorphine is going to take the place of most daily seratonin medications in the not to distant future...
 
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