• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Benzos Is the quality of phenazepam "research samples" declining?

socio

socio

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
342
EDIT: In the interestes of avoiding blackouts, jail, overdose, and other harm, please read my post below, in which I have reconsidered my opinion on this mattter.

Sorry to (sort of) double-post (buried a similar question at end of "phenazepam" thread), and to raise yet another on this drug, but I have what seems to me an important question, considering the danger-profile of this drug, and one other BLer who seems to corroborate my impression:

For those who have ordered recently, and especially over time, if there are enough of us out there: have you noticed that the current "research samples" are of much lesser potency?

I ask because I notice needing more, myself, massively more so. Even after a week-long no-benzo holiday. Today, 10mg (volumetric; 1mg=0.1cc ISO) over the course of 7 hours = mild lethargy/daytime sedation, decent anti-anxiety, but not quite what I hoped.

No noticeable amnesia (yet), no loss of motor or mental control that I can detect. Definitely there are benzo effects, but definitely at low threshold doses. (Not that I need euphoria, but I did used to feel some of that, too.) Plus, I seem to be spelling okay.

This is NOT the same dosing schedule -- by far -- that I was on three months ago with the exact same order from the exact same supplier. (Where it was 2mg/24 hours at first.) Maybe it's just me? Tolerance is up somewhat since I started with it all a few months back (though 4mg clonazepam by itself still had me feeling very good almost all day long before I took a week off from all benzos and then resumed with phenazepam). Or is it that it's just not a surprising new chemical to my brain receptors anymore so I don't get that euphoria of novelty?

I don't want to risk taking a product that is of variable potency, especially one whose effects can be so dramatic and destructive. Nor do I want to slander the producers/vendors if it's simply a matter of my own psychopharmacology.

Any other thoughts/experiences appreciated...

EDIT: UPDATE: Topped out the day at about 16-18 mgs total, and (45min after last dose) a feeling of moderate-to-mild euphoric buzz and minor impairment (amnesia seems unlikely). Seems to me the distributors may have gotten scared by early reports and started cutting product by up to 80%, but who knows, maybe just sometimes, maybe not at all.... Maybe I'll wake up content and happier than i was all day today, as some reports have it, but that's optimistic! More likely: feeling mild contentment, relaxed in the a.m.; less likely: mild amnesia. We'll see. But a pure starting sample should've had me floored long ago at these dosages...

PMs on the topic welcome, along with any comments.
 
Last edited:
this is a very long acting benzo, its possible that the tolerance lasts long aswell. how long have you been using phenazepam, and how much/how frequently?
 
yea, ive heard of people quitting for more than a year and still having a tolerance
 
i havnt ordered that particular RC, but i do know that sometimes, Rcs are cut by the supplier or its just a bad batch.
 
thanks everybody! To answer:

I've used it on-and-off for the last 2-3 months. First, a 100mg sample. [Had a 2-4mg/day xanax habit then.] This I felt was potent, starting at 1mg a day, trying 4-5mg, but settled my dose at about 2-3 mg a day to manage anxiety without the amensia/lethargy.

Then a 500mg sample, which immediately seemed to require much higher doses, like the next day: 5-10mg doses, more than once a day. I tapered off of it, and on my last day, tried 4mg of clonazepam and found it positively euphoric. I felt then that the 500mg aka 1/2g shipment was "cut," lower purity. (Still worth price.)

I finished that, then stuck to moderate doses of regular benzos about 5 days a week (2-4mgs of clonaz or alpraz, or maybe 40-60/day of diazepam or zolpidem/Ambien).

Then I took a one week holiday without ANY benzos whatsoever. Mind you, at the time I STARTED the break, I still got a pretty good "fuzzy-happy-active-confident" feeling all day from 4mgs of clonaze and maybe 1mg Xan or 10 valium.

Took the week clean, just for shits n giggles. Then, yesterday, started my new (3rd) order of phenazlle. Today: totalled 16mg, I believe, over the course of 6-8 hours. Now I'm about where I'd wanna be -- feeling like I took 3mgs of clonazepam or 2mgs of alprazolam.

But that's far less than I would expect on 16mg of phenazepam. Still, for the price, it's worth it. Will order more, I suppose...

but it makes me uneasy:

If I'm right, and the next order shows up *original* strength, and I tried taking my "new" phenaz dose, I'd be in for it hard. So I gotta titrate up every time when ordering.

Maybe just the perils of unknown quantities and dosage schedules and self-monitoring... but it does make me wonder if the vendor(s) have started diluting the stuff to customers, probably not in order to encourage greater purchases (since they charge so little anyway), but simply to avoid having people make any more of those 3-week-blackout-in-an-out-of-state-jail-losing-a-car-turning-gf-into a prostitute-and-waking-up-homeless in Omaha, Where?-types of stories....

Responsible in a sense, maybe, but it would be more responsible to tell us they were doing that, so we could adequately measure our dosages. IF they're doing it...????

So -- Im agnostic. Uncertain whether it's just the vagaries of benzo tolerance or the results of deliberate dilution of a scary dangerous product by scared vendors trying to protect themselves or be a little 'sponsible.

Other reports would help clarify... if it matters. This might explain why people's phenaze reports have sounded a LOT tamer over the past 2-3 months than in previous, say, 18 months.

I dunno... you tell me!

--Socio
 
Last edited:
For the sake of HR, we'll allow this thread to stay open to discuss the dangers of phenazepam, but if ANYONE so much as mentions even a veiled reference hinting at a source, this thread will be closed without second thought and a warning will be issued to the violating post/poster.

This is fair warning now, so don't abuse this.

Also, if anyone sends any of you a PM asking for a source, we would greatly appreciate it if you would let us or one of the Sr. Mods or Administrators know by forwarding us/them the PM so we can deal with it properly. If you like being able to post about subjects like this on BL, then it's your duty to protect it from any potential harm that could be done to it, legal or otherwise, and report serious violations of our Guidelines and Bluelight User Agreement.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
sixpartseven said:
For the sake of HR, we'll allow this thread to stay open to discuss the dangers of phenazepam, but if ANYONE so much as mentions even a veiled reference hinting at the name of a source, this thread will be closed without second thought and a warning will be issued to the violating post/poster.

This is fair warning now, so don't abuse this.

Also, if anyone sends any of you a PM asking for a source, we would greatly appreciate it if you would let us or one of the Sr. Mods or Administrators know by forwarding us/them the PM so we can deal with it properly. If you like being able to post about subjects like this on BL, then it's your duty to protect it from any potential harm that could be done to it, legal or otherwise, and report serious violations of our Guidelines and Bluelight User Agreement.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the fair warning.

I've sometimes been confused by the rules intricacies -- I didn't plan to source here, but I had thought it might be okay (1) when PMing, where I stand corrected and will abstain from doing, and (2) in the sense of learning which suppliers are selling products of variable quality with unknown contaminants. K

Knowing now what you've said, I will avoid pushing those matters.

In fact, I mean to ask only in generalities, not for specific sources.
 
socio said:
Thanks for the fair warning.

I've sometimes been confused by the rules intricacies -- I didn't plan to source here, but I had thought it might be okay (1) when PMing, where I stand corrected and will abstain from doing, and (2) in the sense of learning which suppliers are selling products of variable quality with unknown contaminants. K

Knowing now what you've said, I will avoid pushing those matters.

In fact, I mean to ask only in generalities, not for specific sources.
Click to expand...

(1) The idea behind PMing is no one else can read your PM's but it's still not ideal nor safe, as you don't really know who you're talking to. The second inherent problem with PM's is, how do you know someone isn't just planning on ripping you off for dope money?

We can source for harm reduction products, but most certainly not drugs (even if they're unscheduled).

Also, to your (2), we also don't do that. There's other websites that do this, that will help you decide if a source site is legitimate or not. However we have to avoid doing this.
 
CH & 6/7, gotcha gotcha.

Seriously, just wondered, to stay on point, has your phenazepam, obtained however, gotten weak/become less potent, mg/mg than it was just months ago?

I don't want to know "legit," "better" suppliers, just whether there is actually a noticeable amount of variability leaking into the quality of products (like a 5 or 10-fold variability from batch-to-batch seems possible IMO!)

If NEone has experience (NO SOURCING), please state within a reasonable interval. Otherwise, please close after a fair interval.

Fair nuf?
 
i doubt the [I said not to even make vague references to sources! This includes saying what country they are in because people can determine what source you use based on the country it's in. I will allow the thread to stay open though because this was a minor violation, and I only gave you a soft-warning with no points because of it, instead of an infraction - 6/7] chemists who make it would give a fuck if anyone drove their car into the grand canyon on this stuff lol. decent theory but I doubt it..

You probably just have a decent benzo tolerance and this stuff not doing it for you. There are reports elsewhere of massive tolerance increases from this stuff so it doesn't sound like it wouldn't.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just want to say something to everyone who is just stating that it is "tolerance".

Unless you have personally made several orders of phenazepam and can comment as to whether or not you feel the quality is declining, you probably shouldn't respond to this thread.

If you haven't been placing orders and cannot personally comment on the quality, then you have no real basis to state that you believe it is a tolerance issue. Its entirely possible that its a tolerance issue, but its also possible that different batches are ranging in potency.

I just get the feeling that some people are suggesting its a tolerance issue when they themselves have not even tried the product the OP is discussing.-DG
 
I've ordered phen multiple times and found tolerance raises fast, and towards the end of my use(abuse) it seemed to be opposite of what it should be. Instead of becoming less anxious I found myself in the bathroom at work crying. Of course to any drug user who fancies benzos phenazepam sounds glorious and too good to be true, but I personally will never touch it again. I've been off of it for 2 months and everyday I'm still walking on mental eggshells. Just be careful, it could be tolerance, but ive noticed quality fluctuates from time to time, site to site.
 
socio said:
CH & 6/7, gotcha gotcha.

Seriously, just wondered, to stay on point, has your phenazepam, obtained however, gotten weak/become less potent, mg/mg than it was just months ago?
Click to expand...
TBH I have never tried it, probably never will. I'm sure it's better than clonazepam for me personally but I don't wish to imbibe phenazepam. If I'm looking for a long lasting benzo, I'll go with flurazepam.

I don't want to know "legit," "better" suppliers, just whether there is actually a noticeable amount of variability leaking into the quality of products (like a 5 or 10-fold variability from batch-to-batch seems possible IMO!)

If NEone has experience (NO SOURCING), please state within a reasonable interval. Otherwise, please close after a fair interval.

Fair nuf?
Click to expand...
Yeah man this is a good HR question. If two batches could vary 5 or 10 fold, you could easily have people ODing and blacking out/amnesia/etc fairly easily, and that's not good.

I just have no idea...I wish I did so I could help you all out. Maybe some other BL'ers can help.

ColinGibs said:
i doubt the chemists who make it would give a fuck if anyone drove their car into the grand canyon on this stuff lol. decent theory but I doubt it..
Click to expand...
So how do they get repeat business if all their customers are getting in fatal car accidents?

This is like H dealers not giving a fuck if their customers die - they clearly do, because how else are they going to keep doing what they're doing if their customers die? Often dealers who use themselves are dependent on the business they get.

I am not doubting your theory 100%, but I do have reservations of believing in it.

If you said this about mephedrone or alcohol or tobacco vendors, I would believe you.

You probably just have a decent benzo tolerance and this stuff not doing it for you. There are reports elsewhere of massive tolerance increases from this stuff so it doesn't sound like it wouldn't.
Click to expand...
This is another factor - benzo tolerance. Thanks for pointing that out.

daddysgone said:
Unless you have personally made several orders of phenazepam and can comment as to whether or not you feel the quality is declining, you probably shouldn't respond to this thread.

If you haven't been placing orders and cannot personally comment on the quality, then you have no real basis to state that you believe it is a tolerance issue. Its entirely possible that its a tolerance issue, but its also possible that different batches are ranging in potency.

I just get the feeling that some people are suggesting its a tolerance issue when they themselves have not even tried the product the OP is discussing.-DG
Click to expand...

If people have ingested several hundred MG's of phenazepam, you don't think tolerance might cloud their judgements?

It's one thing if you have several different shipments from different vendors and have only had one or two doses from each supply...but this is not likely to be the case IMO.

x7Mx said:
I've ordered phen multiple times and found tolerance raises fast, and towards the end of my use(abuse) it seemed to be opposite of what it should be. Instead of becoming less anxious I found myself in the bathroom at work crying. Of course to any drug user who fancies benzos phenazepam sounds glorious and too good to be true, but I personally will never touch it again. I've been off of it for 2 months and everyday I'm still walking on mental eggshells. Just be careful, it could be tolerance, but ive noticed quality fluctuates from time to time, site to site.
Click to expand...

This is interesting that you got paradoxical reactions near the end. This is exactly how I respond to clonazepam (crying, anxiety), so it is likely I'll never risk taking phenazepam.

I'm wondering if the PR's were dose related, or tolerance related, or something like that.

Either way I'm glad you discontinued use, I hope you feel better soon.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Cap'n, yeah i quit that and pods at the same time and am now BACK on suboxone and 2mg clonazepam a day. It was rough at first but i think my shit is slowly returning to normal. Well as normal as things can be for me heh. Due to my own experience with phen I like to warn others to be careful with it and use it sparingly. I blew through a gram in about 2 months, bad idea. Never blacked out or anything but in the end i paid the price, and still am. What goes up must come down...er well..what goes down must come up..heh you know what i mean.
 
daddysgone said:
I just want to say something to everyone who is just stating that it is "tolerance"... Unless you have personally made several orders of phenazepam and can comment as to whether or not you feel the quality is declining, you probably shouldn't respond to this thread. ... I just get the feeling that some people are suggesting its a tolerance issue when they themselves have not even tried the product the OP is discussing.-DG
Click to expand...

Thanks, ddysgn! That was kinda my point.


x7Mx said:
I've ordered phen multiple times and found tolerance raises fast, and towards the end of my use(abuse) it seemed to be opposite of what it should be. ... Just be careful, it could be tolerance, but ive noticed quality fluctuates from time to time, site to site.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that x7mx. i've had some paradoxical reactions to benzos, and the scary thing is how unpredictable they are. So good ups for posting.

Captain.Heroin said:
This is another factor - benzo tolerance. Thanks for pointing that out.... If people have ingested several hundred MG's of phenazepam, you don't think tolerance might cloud their judgements?

It's one thing if you have several different shipments from different vendors and have only had one or two doses from each supply...but this is not likely to be the case IMO.
Click to expand...


And, C.H., you're right, too. I think it's just too many variables, too mayn people doing too many different things to nail it down for us all, though I do have my own opinion.

Suppose we're left with a bag of nobody's sure of nothing. I'm still interested in it, since Phen is a great utility drug for me (no euphoria [from what I get] means no temptation to overdo it, long half-life means its functional for daily life with little cognitive impairment, and I think I'm managing ok w/o amnesia or ill-effects). So feel free to PM me about it (and this time i'll follow the rules, I promise, sorry!)

Thanks for all ur contributions, I learn a lot from yous guys n gals.

Case closeded?
 
Update: Tried triple my usual dose (>60mg, presuably "cut" already by producer) and felt minor efftcs. Maybe it's tolerance. But I believe that at least some of what's sold as phenazepam is almost entirelly cut (maybe niacinamide?), but there could be relatively pure vendors, too, which is a real danger. I have a shipment from elsewhere coming (suppposedly, until it gets here), which I will treat as 100% pure to start with...
 
socio said:
Update: Tried triple my usual dose (>60mg, presuably "cut" already by producer) and felt minor efftcs. Maybe it's tolerance. But I believe that at least some of what's sold as phenazepam is almost entirelly cut (maybe niacinamide?), but there could be relatively pure vendors, too, which is a real danger. I have a shipment from elsewhere coming (suppposedly, until it gets here), which I will treat as 100% pure to start with...
Click to expand...

oh wow, well yeah be ultra careful with the new stuff socio! Take it easy and let us know if there's a big difference.
CH
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top