AA /NA meetings make me nuts

I am a heroin addict. I have been to jail and rehab because of this in past. Now with Suboxone i am maintaining and still doing dope as well . I have been going to NA meetings long time and have had some clean time in past but I still go now even when im using and i refuse to let anyone know im not clean . Maybe its my pride i dont know. I just see no point in hearing them preach to me . I know usings bad and i know i should get clean but i love dope too much . Now I dont know why i still go to meetings when im not ready to be honest or get clean . I think i just go because i have nothing better to do honestly . Anyway i usually end up sitting there thinking how annoying all these people are and how all the program stuff is BS . i dont know if this is "just my addiction talking to me " as theyd say but i do believe it is possible to maintain an addiction and that its not always "jails institutions and death " any opinons ?

I've stopped going to NA meetings out of sheer frustration. Everybody else there had months or even years of clean time, while I was still struggling from day to day. Plus I'd be constantly lectured and preached to - they didn't even like me being on anti-depressants! I know NA works wonders for some people, and I've got nothing against it, but I don't think it's for me. I feel totally out of place at those meetings.

Sweet P said:

I've stopped going to NA meetings out of sheer frustration. Everybody else there had months or even years of clean time, while I was still struggling from day to day. Plus I'd be constantly lectured and preached to - they didn't even like me being on anti-depressants! I know NA works wonders for some people, and I've got nothing against it, but I don't think it's for me. I feel totally out of place at those meetings.

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bump! I feel like every NA group I've been too, it was like a mini highschool cafeteria situation. All these people know each other, they act like it's social hour. I'm literally fucking barely making it through the hour before I'm ready to grab my belt and run for the car to get fixed. I finally stopped after i went on suboxen .. let my group know they gave me shit about being on "suboxycottin" - never will forget it. Sad people need to try to bring others down, luckily I have very thick skin.

I feel like they are trying to brainwash me , i feel like they are fake , then in back of my mind i keep thinking "what if im the one who is wrong and im just in denial "

well bro - it's obvious you are struggling with where you are at with your addiction. Nothing is going to be cut and dry at this point in your life, how many groups have you gone too? In another thread I mentioned how hit or miss NA groups have been to me - I'd suggest you try a few more, and then really look into intensive therapy 1on1 - whether you are more comfy with a man or women if you go in and are open and honest, a good therapist will be able to put together some answers for you bro. Just focus on one thing at a time, get the route worked on, then start with the rest. Again wish you the best, keep the fight man.

jake 99- only you know yourself. you are the only one who can understand how your addiction functions. the most important thing i found for myself is respecting my addictions. they slow my progression, stop it and sometimes even regress me to previous versions of myself i've tried to forget.

these are addictions that i respect- smoking cigs, iv'ing coke and alcohol, oh and sex. none of these are currently active nor i plan on letting them be that way. sex im saving for that special someone now and the rest of those substances, fuck em.

meth is the one that i have decided to stop now. quit saturday night at midnight. picked up my white key chain today. i didnt feel any pride receiving it but rather remembrance of why i was there. all the bad shit is what that key chain means to me.

those didactic addicts with "x years" of sobreity can seem and are full of it. but you should still listen to them cause there are some nuggets of wisdom in the heaps of bullshit they spew. and yeah they sure do preach alot.


this is the most important thing in life that i have found recently. find your spirituality yourself and be ready to listen when it comes. dont be like me and make it find you and then still try to further prove it exists. run when you know you get the memo, even if you feel paranoid or crazy.

what do u mean run

One of the reasons AA and I don't go well together (and yes, I tried it) was that I got too emotionally invested in the stories people told. I had never heard such tales of misfortune and heartbreak in my life. I came home from one meeting crying my eyes out because of some of the things I heard about the suffering.

I felt like I was taking on all of their guilt (and alkies, we are full of guilt) at once and it just shocked me into the knowledge that I could find a way to handle my problems with alcohol without having to expose myself to things that upset me to the point of sobbing. I still have a lot of work to do, but approaching it as a matter of harm reduction rather than an all-or-nothing proposition has helped me use alcohol less often and more responsibly.

In short, I just couldn't handle the emotional impact of what I heard at the meetings, it caused me anxiety and increased my depression, and although I wanted to help and be helped - that wasn't the way I would be able to go about it.

Jake - not all 12 steppers believe in abstaining from psych meds when they are needed medically, which subs clearly are for you. They say "take what you want and leave the rest" - I say "fuck the haters, it's a matter between you and your doctor".

Good luck however you decide to proceed with your sobriety.

its so hard to be honest at meetings when you dont want them to know you have relapssed

i know what u mean jake.. i'm still in rehab and i've relapesd.. i thought that it would be ok to shoot dilaudids because it wont show up on drug tests, and never go back to my doc heroin.
all they do here is shove as much of the 12 steps in my brain as much as they can, i hardly speak with my counselor. I don't think I even have seen him since the day I got here.
In matter afact, I've been so low here the past few days that he came down to my room and ask me wtf i was doing, i'm really dope sick, just told him i am under a lot of stress . my room is a fucking mess.
the 12 steps discourage me because of the god idea, i'm good at admiting defeat, and making a list. i just cant hit my knees.

12 step programs are often dogmatic, preachy, anti-psychiatry, prejudiced, closed-minded and cult-like but unfortunately there aren't many viable alternatives out there. A lot of people who have gone through treatment need to keep their gaze focused on sobriety and have some form of support and/or accountability or relapse is virtually inevitable for most.

I'm studying to be an addictions counselor and as such, us students are constantly bombarded with solicitations to suck off or pimp the 12 steps. As evidenced in my first sentence, I am not a fan of those programs at all, but there IS some value in them and there aren't programs out there with the availability, funding and other resources that groups like AA and NA have.

Lastly, don't let the jesus jumpers fool you into thinking there is only one acceptable conception of god available in the 12 steps. The linguistic framing was originally bothersome to me as well but that's all it is, 1 framing so frame it how it works for you. A friend of mine likes to say that spirituality is when your values and behaviors are in harmony and if that were the case, you wouldn't be seeking help. If you could do this alone (without a "higher power") then by all means do so. If like most who get in too deep, you need help then make that higher power whatever works for you. A lot of atheists in AA refer to god as the "group of drunks" in AA because absent a formal belief in god, they can still benefit from the support from others who have experienced something similar to what they have. They make THAT their higher power.

Unfortunately I don't have solid advice for you, I see a lot of benefit in sticking with these programs if you will truly commit to sobriety and look to change your life, but its also fucked up and cult-like so I don't blame you for wanting something else. You need to truly look inside and figure out if you want to get sober and what that will take for you personally.

There are some good people at Meetings, its just that its always "all or nothing " with them and i dont believe it is either you get high and your going to die or go to rehab or you stay clean ..............I believe there is some level of controlling addictions................(especially with suboxone lol)

^we're presently having a discussion in that same idea in the alcoholism thread, why don't you check out what's been said and throw in your views?

There is a phrase in the Big Book..."Contempt prior to investigation."


Addicts are very stubborn people and we will believe anything that allows us to keep using.


Almost every addict has a preconceived notion about the 12-steppers. If you walk into a meeting expecting to find Jesus-freaks, chances are you will find one and that person and the only thing you will take from the meeting is that "I was right; this place sucks."

There is another saying in the rooms "Take the meat and throw away the bone." Take what makes sense and works for you and leave what doesn't.

I wish i was a N.a. guy who stayed clean .................i have lost all self control it seems

jake99 said:

I wish i was a N.a. guy who stayed clean .................i have lost all self control it seems

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No you haven't bro! You tell yourself this, but I know from your posts that you have not. Fact: you still are here, trying to work this out. If you had lost control you would be out RIGHT now, making sure of nothing else but that demon on your shoulder. While it's apparent so many things are bringing you down - you still are approaching it well, by looking for help that WORKS! And forget what others have done brother, this is not about the N.A members with 20 years clean, right now this is about you (not bashing NA or sobriety!). You need to keep your focus on what areas you can keep moving forward in, listen to the people here on BL that have years of experience dealing with similar problems. Hang in man, if you want to vent shoot me a PM and I'll give you my contact info if things are real tough. You are not alone my dude.

Yeah im gonna PM you thanks

Shit...this is a topic that I feel 100%....

NA works great for a certain kind of ppl IME.

1-the people who need to have somebody hold their hand the whole way along the road...These folks is afraid of TRUE honesty-The realization that the whole wide world is out there, and its completely open to them-ALL up to them....That them, and only them , can make it be or not be any way they want it to...And that terifies alot of ppl. to realize that its all on them, and its all up to them, that theey control it and nobody else. that shit makes them want to take cover and run and hide back in a corner somewhere. If they got NA to lead them along, and tell them wat to do, it is easier for them. They dont WANt the control. To them, the idea that you are powerless and dont control ur addiction, that u got a disease, etc, that is music to their ears. And when they hear that NA shit, its really a "plan"--Becuz lets be real...IF you follow EVERYTHING they say...to the letter...You WILL get clean. But its becuz u fill every moment of ur time with "recovery", meeting, etc, and its pretty much like u use NA as your 'rules." If you follow the rules, u use the guide book, and jus do everything they say, u get clean, Bam, easy.

Some folks really need that, and them cant handle the responsibility of bein in control of their own destiny. its scary to them and its too much to bear so they need that control over them, someone to tell them wat to do, they need to KNOW , its comforting to them, u feel me? Thats the folks that usually does real good with NA and gets up good clean time, and the ppl that will stick to the "book" hell or high water, and just endlessly preach u that u got to get right with the steps and all that. The real true blue NA heads.

2-I think that the other type and there is more for sure, but this is like the 2 main types I seen, is folks like alot of us, who is just...So TIRED....So sick of it...And we know that we had control at some point but we lost it and we lost and we alone and sick and tired and just DAMN, cant fukn TAKE it no more...

And so even tho we know we smarter than that, we go to NA and say...hey, well . Maybe.....Maybe if i try, i can do this...And we WANT to believe so bad, we really do. We try to believe, we try to do the steps, we try to listen....We want so bad to be clean, to feel that same feelings that the NA devoted old timers will claim they feel, that happiness with life without drugs, all that...But inside, we know it aint right. we cant jus see the contradictions, and look the other way. We try n deny it, we try to keep the faith and say hey i believe this shit, i can do it.

just the same way that fat ppl who really wants to be thin, will try any and every diet product under the sun--even when they KNOW that just takin a magic pill aint gonna make them drop 20lbs in a month (unless its meth, lol),but they buy it anyways, becuz they really just WANT to believe....

And we the same as that--Diet and exercise is the only REAL, proved way to lose weight....And really havin that change of heart, inside, mentally, that point that u just break and HONESTLY, INSIDE urself u really WANT to be clean, not becuz u have to or should or nothing else but that it actually "clicks" inside u, and u furiously , ragingly LUST after bein clean like u did for dope. And until u get that change of heart where its a honest, real , deep seated knowing inside urself, and u honest to god truly want to be clean, and bein clean is your wildest fantasy, the happiest life you could imagine for yourself--you aint gonna succeed.

So, while we wait for that kind of epifany, we think OK well maybe we can try this NA bizness. maybe this can do it for us.

And we go along with it for a while, we really try we really do. we put alot into it, but its like we know that we fakin it inside. when all the folks there get all that back slappin hugging clappin congratulations shit, we just aint feelin it. We feel like we missin somethin, like everybody else believes in this NA Santa claus shit and we the only ones who know it aint real or somethin.

We smart enough to not "buy" the shit they preach, but we want so bad to be ABLE to just simplify shit down to the levels of all or nothing black and white that NA works on. Its like wishin u could be dumb becuz sometimes to be ignorant is bliss, and i think alot of us has felt that in the past. So after puttin in the effort, repeating the NA words an thangs, after a while it just falls down...the front crumbles and we realize, How can I really do this? My heart aint in it. i feel like a fool repeatin this shit. I know that i dont REALLY believe the shit Im sayin...But somehow i felt like if i said it enough times it would become true.....

And thats where I see alot of BL'ers at...They say these things that Na tells them, and they so truely wish that they could say them with the same kind of conviction and feeling that the "real" NA ppl feel when they talk. We wish it was really that easy.....that it could all be so simple....But it aint, and we know it,and you sure as hell can learn, but you can never un learn, and i feel like once u get to the level that u realize that certain shit abotu NA is jus sooooo over simplified , it starts to lose its shine and eventually we give up tryin to make it "take" to us and jus realize, fuck it, this aint gonna work for me, i cant force it, i cant MAKE it work, its either gonna be somethin that I really feel and agree with, or not, and i cant choose which one thats gonna be.

I started out really tryin yall, just like i said, i wanted to be able to play the NA game, it seemed like if only i could get in to that mental like that i could make my problems go away, by simplifyin them into these lil boxes of NA phrases and ideas, becuz it lets u identify the problem, and then tells u exactly wat to do, to fix that problem. But, my problems jus didnt fit , and the solutions didnt work, and i keep goin to the meetings even if its just for the people that I talk to sometimes and to hear ppl speak, but real talk lately some of the shit ppl been sayin been gettn me so worked up i am startin to take a real dis like to it. I DO like goin tho, when the ppl is just real about shit and aint all talkin about shit thru the NA light and just talk about LIFE...then i do like just goin to listen n all that...But as far as the PROGRAM of NA and not the particular idea of wat u get at a meeting...THATS mostly wat im talkin about, and if u aint gettin me yet, I aint exaclty seein eye to eye with the program.

And thru gettin clean my self, I learned somethin real valuable..And its so simple, and its a twist on somethin we all heard before which is "You have to really want to get clean to do it." Yea, thats tru. But alot of us really have really wanted to get clean and not been able to...becuz it takes more than a mental idea that u "want" to get clean, and alot of times that "want' comes from all the wrong places, like probation and a need to be clean for piss test, or parents, or rehab threatining you if you dont get clean, or a SO who gonna leave if u dont, or a sense of guilt to ur family or cuz u got a kid on the way and need to be clean for him or her...But it aint just that, theres more to it. And once i went thru it my self it made it pretty clear to me where the answer to gettin ur shit straight lies....it aint exactly rock bottom, or feelin the obligation to get clean and mistaking it for truly wantin to...

its just this...that if deep inside, you dont want to be clean...(and i dont mean "want"...I mean like I said before. Furiously, madly, wildly want it, Need it, Hunger after it, dream about it, not as a sad substitute for your using life, but that you truly honestly feel like it would be a BETTER life, and you would RATHER live that life than using, HONESTLY)...But

If you dont really want to be clean...Goin to NA aint gonna get you clean.

And once you do feel that change inside, and realize that you DO want to be clean....You aint gonna need no mutha fuckin NA to get there.


I aint tryna make this post too long, but I got a whole lot to say about this. I go to meetings , court ordered. and i use to really get somethin out of it and enjoy it. lately not so much. there is so much hypocritical bullshit in there that i just cant take it , and i wiled'd out on them last week when the topic to share on was "honesty" i got real with em and let em know . But for now Ima make this post end here, and make another one seperate so ppl can process it in pieces, i hope there is somethin i can add to the topic...

lacey, nice post
basically put yours and Cane2theLeft's posts together, you guys nailed it imo

The 12 steps and religion are not the answer for a lot of people. Have faith in yourself. You don't need some group to try and guilt trip you to stop. Clearly you have a stronger mind about you, you're not aimlessly brainwashed into thinking what they want. Do what you need to do get to sobriety, and know that people are always willing to do their part to help you. It helps to be more understanding than most of the 12-steppers spewing bullshit. It's hard, but have faith.