[WA] busted. consequences/advice?

Hi everyone.

I need someone to tell me what to expect and possible get some advice. I'm asking in this forum instead of Legal Q&A because it's specific to Western Australia. If the moderators think it would be more approriate in that forum then feel free to move it.

A few nights ago I was busted for posession of Cannabis. I was pulled over at around 2am after leaving a friends house. They asked if I had anything in the car and I told them I had some pot in the glove box. The cop found it and asked the usual details. At a guess I'd say I had around 10-12 grams. I also had spare baggies but the didn't seem to want to make a big deal out of it and I told them it was for personal use and that I only bagged it up to monitor my own consumption, which they seemed happy with. They then told me in around six days I would recieve a call to pick up a summons from a particular cop shop. They actually said they appreciated me being honest with them and that would be in my favour (obviously).

Now the only time I have ever been in trouble with the police is a couple of years back when I recieved a cannabis caution (1 count of posession cannabis, 1 count of paraphanelia).

The thing is, they thought I was involved in something that had happened round the corner of where I'd just been. When they found out I wasnt I think they just wanted to charge me for posession and get it over with.

So what should I expect? Will I go to court? Will I just be fined or could it be something more serious? If you need more information to answer my question, just ask.

Probably a drug diversion program.

As the Police told you to attend a station to collect a summons, that means they are sending you to court for posses prohibited drug (cannabis).

You will be ineligible for a cannabis infringement as you have already received a cannabis caution. You are only eligible for one caution or infringement before they send you to court.

In WA there is no such thing as a ‘drug diversion program’ for cannabis. This is for other drugs.

You have a couple of options. As you have a clean record (cannabis caution will not be there) you don’t have to attend court in person. You can sign the summons and plead guilty by post. There are advantages and disadvantages of this. The Magistrate may not issue you with a spent conviction if no one (ie you or legal representative) are there to ask for one. In this circumstance this is what you want.

Or you can simply attend court and plead guilty or not guilty in person. I would hazard a guess the fine from court would be somewhere around the $300 mark but only the Magistrate can tell you.

Good luck with it.

I'd like to commend you (from what I can ascertain) for dealing with the situation very maturely.

I've no doubt this will help you in receiving a lower punishment.

Sorry, not being familiar with WA laws I can't really help you with what that could be, but I'm happy for your post to remain here so that other WA blers can help you out.

Good luck

Thanks for the replies. I dont want a criminal record so i guess the best thing to do would be to go to court with some kind of legal aid and ask for a spent conviction while pleading guilty?

plead not guilty, the police prosecutor will probably rock up and say the evidence has gone missing

Hi DoctorShop.

I agree with Smithy in that if you attend court by proxy the magistrate is NOT going to issue you a spent conviction just because you may be nice guy - i know it is expensive but i seriously recommend getting a lawyer represent you

Im not convinced that 2nd time possession necessarily carry a conviction these days (??) i thought the new legislation clear that up (below 28g) but i could be wrong i've never deal with it personally

VT's court do's and don'ts:
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* DO make it clear that you only sought legal representation because you are unfamiliar with the law and have no criminal record
* DO make it clear that you are willing and able to pay any fine
* DO dress properly (tuck in your shirt)
* DO have your lawyer expressly ask for a spent conviction at the end (never hope)

* DONT speak if you arent spoken to (definately dont make any speeches)
* DONT take the option of not attending in person
* DONT be late or belligerant to anybody in the court

Usual rule of thumbs, can't type much sorry. Doing a quick read before we leave for dinner, 5 minutes ago So I have rushed this, sorry if it's a repost of anyone's else posts but I'm in a rush! So here are a couple quick bullet points I can think of and quickly type!

Start a drug rehab/counseling course NOW. It really looks good to show (pretend ) that you made a big error and letting god + the government showing you where you went wrong and you are repenting your evil old ways

Hire an expensive (as much as you can afford) defense lawyer. Court is like a game to these people so you WILL need to pay somehow. Either it is from your pocket, i.e the lawyer you shelled out good money for, or the fine you receive (or a combination of both) or possibly jail or suspended jail time if it is legally possible for what you amount you had.

Wear something SMART/NEAT (in their eyes) as for this game (as mentioned, court is just a game for the legal peeps 8) ) you need to pretend/show that you really don't want the maximum possible sentence/fine for this and doing your best to make amends for it.

Whatever you do, MIGHT not count for fuck all because the magistrate had a bad night and/or hates scum bags like you (in his/her eyes) and they want to punish scum bags like you and you deserve it! It sucks but not much you can do besides appeal which costs MORE money. One of my mates on here, won't say his name as I haven't asked him and he is getting ready, we're off to dinner together with my girlfriend (his is at a friends place) but he was busted underage drinking and roughed up by the police pretty bad. Bad enough to get stitches. It was the good cop/bad cop thing where the bad cop kicked the shit out of him and the good cop drove him back home (15-20 kms?) after it and talking like a summons most likely won't happen because "of the incident" that happened that night.

Well fast forward 9 months, he is court, the family laywer said just to get a legal aid dude because it was a run of the mill minor case. Well, without him even being allowed to speak in court, he was sentenced to 6 months suspended jail , $3000 fine and it was made out he jumped the cop(s?) and tried to assault them! It was almost a certain life wrecking conviction for his future work (as he was at uni that time). Anyway after all that, appealed and it came out he was in the right, the police got a slap on the wrist and the fine with conviction was turned into $3000 for the poor box and no conviction. Suspended sentence dropped. He did all the right things in the first 2 court hearing EXCEPT in the first one, he got fined and suspended sentence simply because (so 'contacts' told his dad who knows a lot of people) he didn't spend the $$$ on a lawyer so he had to be punished and taught a lesson that money has to be spent due to learning a lesson. Either the hard or soft way 8)

Well, passed enough time, the said person is here and we're ready to go! Best of luck matey. So, "play the game" as many stories from him and other friends have all come to this same conclusion. I'm luckily enough not to have ever face the other side of the police/court and hopefully never have to. I don't do anything naughty anymore so I hope nothing gets made up! Well, we are off now. Let's hope court produces not

I feel the above advice is somewhat excessive for your situation.

Reality - You were caught with 10 or 12 grams of Marijuana of which you have not been done for supply but posession. You have already told the police it's yours. Fair enough, you've been done with a minimal offence of possession.

It's a very minimal offence and to say to enroll in drug counselling and hire an overy-pricey lawyer will only stress you out and put you out of pocket, big time!

My most recent experience.:

I was convicted of -

Possession of Prohibited Substance
Supply of Prohibited Substance
Assault a police officer.
Resist arrest.

I did hire a pricey lawyer, 12K in the end, only because I needed to beat the supply charge, which I did in the end, due to lack of evidence.

I ended up with a $1000.00 fine and a warning not to be seen in court again anytime soon. Supply was dropped, all others stayed.

My recommendation is 3 good character references, and in your case, maybe only legal aid, as if you confess guilty, you will be dealt your punishment and moved on the same day. If you try and say your innocent, then the saga begins.

You would only hire a pricey lawyer is you are considering contesting the charges and fighting them, which in your case, since you admitted to the police you had the pot and it was yours, you'd be silly to do so.

I think some people who have never been done before think that instantly you need to hire some big time lawyer, spend heaps of money, and do all these things which in reality, is not really needed.

You don't hire a lawyer when you get a speed fine do you? no, because it doesnt warranty it, possession of that much marijuana, with no supply charge is a simple possession charge and nothing more.

Stay cool, be good, yes, dress up, be honest, do what you think you should do to impress a magistrate. Which is dont be a fuckwit and act like your above the law.

Accept the handle you will be dealt and be careful next time

Josh.

Don't get a pricey lawyer, it's just a waste of your money man. The cops aren't gonna go to town on you cos you co-operated and weren't a dickhead, hence no need for an expensive lawyer.

A legal aid rep will do fine, shit you could really just go there yourself, the prosecution will mostly ask for a fine of around $500. I'm pretty sure (I could be wrong) that in WA pot doesn't carry a criminal record anymore if it's deemed personal use.

The only thing going against you is the extra baggies, cops aren't dumb and they've heard it all before. This is the only contentious issue I can see.

I don't know if you get it from the cops or not, but you're entitled to see the prosecutions briefing notes, which may give you some indication of what they're planning to charge you with. If they go for a possesion with intent charge, this changes the game drastically and you may need that lawyer after all...

Hope all goes well mate.

Shal 12k .. do you mean $12000... thats a lot of money.. When I was younger I had the unfortunate experience of needing a QC as the charges that were laid on me couldn't be heard in the Magistrates court and had to be heard in the County Court (Vic).. and he only(!!) cost $4000 for one day. Man you must have had some kick arse lawyer.

A legal aid lawyer should do you fine. Just make sure they are a decent one. Even though legal aid is good they have some pretty shoddy lawyers who really cant be fucked or care what the end result is.

I think the way you handled it was mature and that will work in your favour. I know to some it may seem like a petty conviction/thing to be busted for. But in the end you were still busted so now you just have to deal with it. Keep your nose clean for a while and if you get convicted make sure you speak to your lawyer before hand about what the punishment could possibly be. For possession its probly just a fine or community service.

To most police they arent bothered with minor possession charges unless they want to drag it out to get to 'other people'

Good luck man

Well guys I still haven't recieved a phone call to pick up the summons yet. Just playing the waiting game. What can you do...

Thanks for all the support and information I have recieved in this post. I will keep you guys posted. This information will be useful if anyone else is ever in a similiar situation.

I'd just like to add one thing that I'm sure is just common sense to most people. The one thing I can't stress enough is BE POLITE to the police. You don't have to lick their arses but calling them sir and answering thier questions coherently and concisely I found, went along way. Lets just say, that there is a little more to this story that I don't want to get into. And if I hadn't been as well mannered as I was to the police, I would have been in _alot_ more trouble.

DoctorShop said:

The one thing I can't stress enough is BE POLITE to the police.

Click to expand...

That there is the number one piece of advice everyone should ALWAYS remember. Cops are just doing their job, whether you like their job or not. Remember how you act if someone pisses you off in your job...then apply it to your situation.

Cops are people (in general), treat them with respect and they'll return the favour. It can seriously save your arse.

They're not dumb, so don't treat them as such. Clearly if you're a big time hood keep your mouth shut till you get your big time lawyer, but if you're not, do the smart thing and your odds will definitely improve.

DS - I'm going to move this over to drug discussion now, just to see if there is any more adbice to be offered.

Hope it all works out ok for you!

Hello from Perth!

I don't know about other WA uni guilds but ECU Guild offers free legal advice (and sometimes representation) via the firm Friedman Lurie Singh to all Guild members. That's right - FREE!

If you are 25 or under, contact "Youth Legal Aid". They are a totally independent non-government organisation and are a very very valuable service. In 2005 they were nominated for the WA Youth Awards Group Citizenship category.

Character (personal) references will win you big points in court.

Freshen up your CV and think of the whole process like a job interview. You want to make the best impression possible, whether its in person, in words, on paper.

WRITE DOWN EVERY PIECE OF VOLUNTEER OR COMMUNITY WORK YOU HAVE EVER DONE!

Do everything you possibly can to market yourself as a pro-active socially aware upstanding citizen capable of making positive contributions to the community. A pillar of society (yes there is a joke in there!)

Find out if you are eligible for a Spent Conviction. Normally if a job application or government form asks you to declare convictions, it's a legal requirement that you do so. In WA, a Spent Conviction means that you DO have an actual conviction on your record, but you DON'T have to declare it to anyone (not even a Police Clearance Application). This is especially important if you ever plan to interact with under-18s in ANY professional capacity as you now need to have a "Working with Children" ID card from Dept of Community Development. A Spent Conviction also means you don't have to declare your criminal record when applying for public sector positions. You will still probably get a nice chunky fine though.

I have some more details on the new(-ish) cannabis legislation around somewhere but it's late and I'm ready to hit the sack. Please drop me a line by e-mail if you are interested....

Finally, I just wanted to reassure you that going to court isn't nearly as scary as it sounds. It is nothing like the American TV shows. Most courtrooms don't have much carved wood balustrading at all! Bring a trusted friend with you for emotional support, they can sit in the waiting room or in the public gallery whilst you're in there. If you're a real mess they can even drive you to/from the courthouse which is one less stress for you (don't forget tissues if you're feeling sooky).

Best of luck mate...

their version of summons is a cannibis infringment notice.

they pulled this one on me before.

This thread has some great information. Thanks to all the posters.

Zonee, do you mean that instead of a summons to appear in court the Doc may be sent an infringment notice with a set fine on it? That's what I would have thought would happen under the recent (2003?) cannabis law changes. Miss Flea - any comment/information?

I became interested in the character references and found the following website, good information!
http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/InfoAboutLaw/aspx/default.aspx?Page=Going/Characer.xml

[WA] A brief guide only - not to be taken as a statement of law.

From 22 March 2004 police have the discretion to issue a Cannabis Infringement Notice to you if you are aged 18 years and over, and found to be:

• in possession of or using no more than 30 grams of cannabis;
• in possession of pipes or implements for use in smoking cannabis on which there are detectable traces of cannabis;
• growing no more than two cannabis plants at your principal place of residence, provided that no other person is growing other cannabis plants on the same premises.

Cultivation of cannabis plants hydroponically will continue to be prosecutre through the courts - a Cannabis Infringement Notice cannot be issued for cannabis plants that are grown hydroponically.

If you receive a Cannabis Infringement Notice, you must choose between:

• paying a financial penalty within 28 days;
• completing a Cannbis Education Session within 28 days; or
• having the matter heard in court.

If you are found in possession of any amount of cannabis you can still be charged with dealing if there is relevant evidence.

This information is intended as a brief guide only. It is not be taken as a statement of law.

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That's the official line from the [WA] Dept of Health's Drug & Alcohol Office... verbatim...

Mods: if that info isn't already in the cannabis or legal FAQs please feel free to copy if you think it's relevant.

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heh, I don't even smoke pot, but I do support small changes like this in the legislation. DON'T just sign online petitions - DO write (or type!) actual letters and e-mails to your politicians at local, state and federal level.

Politicians are puppets and it's up to YOU to ensure you are one of the many who help pull the strings - making your voice heard on the issues that you feel strongly about is the only way to create real change.

Thanks for the outstanding input you have made to this thread Miss Flea. It is greatly appreciated and I'm sure the OP will be just as impressed.

Top work.