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[Ketamine Subthread] The K-Hole

How does a pain in the intestines really feel?
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Like about as far as you can push pain without going into shock. One of my experiences involved me lying on the floor in the kitchen with only a pair of shorts on, sweating profusely (January in northern England, situated in a draughty kitchen) the pain was so intense and gasping for breath, pleading to whoever is in charge to give me a 30 second break from it (so I could go dissolve some methadone tablets & shove them up my arse - it's the only thing i've ever had that deals with the pain).

All in all I've had it happen 3 times, one of which involved me having to deleriously shout at my wife to not ring an ambulance (normally she's quite 'stuff & nonsense' - like trating huge cuts/gashes in the skin by sticking it back together with surgical tape). She doesn't like the effect ketamine has on me and this did nothing to improve her opinion of it.

Needless to say, if I get carried away with ket, at the first twinge of the pain I now lay off it completely
 
A mindstate where, despite all the weirdness, everything seems & feels real - a proper hallucinogenic state perhaps.
 
Jamshyd said:
I do not enjoy arguing over semantics. I simply think this is important because I have seen several people go overkill on K, chasing that ever-elusive "K-hole". It just seems to me like slang that has gotten out of control... like someone saying they find Pot much more enjoyable than Cannabis!
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but tripping on ket and being in the K-Hole are two different states of being.

like plateaus of salvia, or DXM.


like I can take salvia, and just get some odd spatial distortions,
or i can take enough, and "Salvia-hole", where I completely dissociate from external stimuli, and embark upon a completely abstract and original journey through my own internal creativity.
HOLE.




This thread is funny,
how Jamshyd still insisted on the idea of a K-Hole not existing,
even after so many people reaffirming the generally accepted definition of it.
 
Jamshyd said:
well, it seems like I've failed to convey why I have objections to this word. I tried my best.
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oh no, i understand your problem.

It's the same problem I have with the use of the word God,
except, in that case, the different meanings people will come up with, to ensure they still have the word "God" to cling to, are much, MUCH more ridiculous.




anyway, I do believe in the K-Hole,
except my definition of "the K-Hole" is all the Love in the Universe.
 
It's ALL subjective.

Please try to remember that, my "psychonautic" friends.

It's ALL subjective.

Neurochemistry is a science that still has many "holes" in it, but I don't think these special magical realms that kids make up re psychoactive drug use exist beyond the imagination. That's okay, though. The imagination is FUN!

Enjoy your K-Holes, whatever you decide it means for you. Make some new ones too. The "Weed Wall" - that special limit you reach when you smoke so much bud you can't get any stoneder (yes, I said stoneder). OR the "Sniff Zone" - when you not only puke, but you've drank so much booze the puke actually smells pleasant.

When I first heard the term, I thought people were doing something unspeakable with Special K cereal.

Vote Aldousage, the victory party will include a massive cake you can stuff in your HOLE!
 
^I suppose in an extremely general, and uninteresting way, "it is all subjective." But I don't think denouncing an idea that refers to a fairly consistent phenomena in ketamine experiences because some people use its terminology incorrectly, or because it on a certain level it can be construed as subjective, helps us to understand these elusive states.

For example, there are elegant mathematical qualities of musical tones that people with perfect pitch can recognize experientially without needing an relative comparison note to be played. It isn't simply that "the perfect pitch" is "whatever sounds right to you," nor is it a "magical" quality made up by people who believe in it. Certain regularities in nature have been found to match up with distinct and recognizable qualities in our experience--and certain people have a greater ability to recognize them than others. If people are reporting a distinct state within something as unique and profound as human self-consciousness, we need to utilize all the lexigraphical tools at our disposal in order to flesh out the nature of that state.

Ego death and hyper-spatial perception are other ideas about distinct states of consciousness that are full of ambiguities and misperceptions but are nevertheless extremely important in expanding our understanding of the nature of consciousness.

Dondante captured some of these ideas in his post nicely.
Dondante said:
Just because we can't get everyone to agree on a definition does not mean that the definition is meaningless. If that were true, all words would be meaningless seeing as they're nothing more than symbolic representations, which are all unique. Many people probably haven't experienced the K-hole, so they have a conception of it that is not true. Others just have not thought through it enough to settle on a definition. There's a reason someone decided to define that state; it is different enough from any other state that it deserves it's own recognition. ...

... it's not just a continuum of increasingly dissociated experience when you take ketamine. There are two important distinctions to be made along the curve ... the K-hole and anesthesia. Each puts the person on a distinct level of experience. I agree that it's not a clear cut state, but when is anything about conscious experience clear cut and predictable.

I'd say the different plateaus described in DXM experiences are similar. They are quite distinct in their effects due to different receptor binding profiles.
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Aldousage said:
It's ALL subjective.
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I'm tempted to ask: "so what?" This thread is about whether the drug ketamine is able to induce a state of mind that people have named "a K-hole" and whether this state seems to be (fairly) consistent across different people.

I'm not just being snotty here. Had we been discussing "love", "pain" or "satisfaction" all those states of mind could be said to be "ALL subjective", but it really doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Clearly, had we been discussing whether the "K-hole" has some sort of physical reality OUTSIDE the mind of the one doing the drug such an opinion or attempt at "stating as a fact that it's all subjective and without external reality" it would have been completely relevant.
 
I think it depends on the environment. People i've seen that define a k-hole as anything other than leaving your body and not being able to see or move generally use it in social type environments or with too many distractions to get what I would call the true high.

The best way to achieve the out of body k-hole is to turn the lights off and preferably be alone. Get some "backgorund music" like ambient (hbr1.com has good stuff sometimes.) And sit somewhere comfortable in front of your pile of k.

When you feel a buzz just close your eyes and float, if you dosed right itll do the work for you, if not open your eyes for as short a time as possible and get more in your nose.

That's my take anyway.

Peace
 
KHole is when you lie in your bed and the orange purple and grey patterns fill your eyes.....the body becomes nothingness and you fly into mental space...and other fun stuff like that!
 
When i'm in what I consider to be a Khole, all senses are cut off and i'm completely dissociated. My mind is in some crazy place that it has made up and nothing from the "real world" is left. When i'm in this state, other people are unable to communicate with me and it appears that i'm "not there" so to speak.

There is also a level that can be obtained on fairly high doses, where i'm unable to move, but i can still see a blurred version of my body and surroundings, and can still hear and attempt to interpret sounds and such. I could see where people would refer to this as a khole, but I am not nearly as "gone" as with the first description.

Its possible that the first level i described is an anesthetic dose, but I didn't think it was possible to get there through insuffulation and I didn't think memory of the event would be clear.

Everybody is going to have a different experience, but there are some fairly straight cut "levels" that you can hit with ketamine much like there are with dxm, where it appears to be a completely different drug. I think people are just confused as to which of these levels other people are referring to as the hole.
 
For me a k hole is when I can close my eyes and completely enter my inner universe without regard for anything external.
 
K'ed up or K-Hole?

I consider Ketamine to be one of my favourite drugs and i love the experience of the K-hole. Although there is quite a bit of controversy in my friend group about which is better: the sort of drunken feeling which comes from taking bumps and small lines, ot the fully blown K hole. So i was wondering, what does everyone on Bluelight prefer; being slightly K'ed up or in a K-hole?

Thanks,
Devo_ =)
 
It depends on setting I think, I think if you're out at night , especially if you're on drugs like mdma its best to do small bumps spread out :p but when it comes to the end of a long night when you're back at a house its good to just rack up some fat lines and get properly K'd up :)
 
I don't think I've reached K-hole yet, try as I might.

Getting some this weekend, not gonna fuck around... 200mg into the thigh right off the bat.
 
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