Benzodiazepines (Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, Valium, etc.) and Ecstasy (mega-merged)

well thank you all for the information. its not for me actually, i've never even seen xanax before. a friend of mine asked about it and i just wanted to make sure it was "safe". i'll let him know

I don't understand why everyone says it kills your roll. I roll with xanax every time I roll! It doesn't decrease jack shit! If anything it's better because it decreases all that stimulant anxiety u get with it! And as long as you don't take more than .5-1mg you'll remember everything fine!

Don't know if i just have a really low tolerance for xanax but i find it impossible to stay awake on even the purple ones.

Had an average pill and thought a xanax might help, chilled me out more, but within an hour and a half max i was asleep. depends on the person though i guess.

I try not to do E unless I have some Xanax for the come down mainly. I need about 2 mg usually, but it evens me out nice and doesn't take anything away form the E. I have taken 2 mg of Xanax over the course of a day and then taken E that night and it was one of my best times lately.

USE IT FOR COMING DOWN!! Its a necessity for myself. I had two MDMA pills last night and when coming down 4mg of xanax and a cold beer does wonders. Smooths out any rough edges. Feeling euphoric.

Need some advice on panic (Experienced E user) Use of Benzos to relax on MDMA.

This might be of interest to those who have experienced panicing and had sudden intense negative experiences on ecstasy.

Back in '99 I had my first pill and was doing ecstasy for a few months before I had a nasty panic attack while tripping. At the time I knew nothing and was totally unable to restrain the panic attack. When going into a vortex of panic on ecstasy without knowing what's happening, it can result in some sort of lasting trauma, if you aren't able to calm down.

This happened to me and I had a hard time with various significant side-effects for about a year adn a half.

I'd decided never to touch the substance again, but one night I was full of downers and somehow managed to take a tablet before falling straight asleep.

I'd somehow, though I don't remember anything, proven to myself I could take ecstasy again and survive.

The following weekend I decided to check it out again, however I was too anxious and had to drop a small dose of benzodiazepams to relax enough to take a pill. (Valium, Rohypnol etc)

It worked fine though I could feel a mild panic like feeling during the onset of the pill.

During the next few months I had mdma/mda once or twice each month or so and every time I did, panic struck with different intensity..

I was starting to become dependant on benzodiazepams (diazepam/valium, flunitrazepam/rohypnol, clonazepam) etc to be able to handle ecstasy at all. These substances relaxes me enough to easily gain control of panic.

I tried to drop a 180mg MDMA tablet one night, without preloading with rohypnol or valium and this left me in a state of confusion so strong I spent about 20 minutes struggling not to go into a uncontrollable panic state.. And yes, you can maintain control, it feels like trying to fight nausia, except the nausia is mental.

What i refer to as "panic" is this extreme feeling of stress and disorientation. Nothing like coming up and having your vision blurred and shaking etc, but literally a burning sensation inside your head, tingling in my face and a really unpleasant lightheadedness/feeling of being weightless. Most of all it's this intense feeling of -almost- losing control, of sliding into this semi conscious hell of disorientation and fear. It feels both physical and psychological.

However when it passes (and I presume the panic is related to the substances starting to work) I feel like i used to back in the days, I'm enjoying all the desired effects and the feeling of panic rarely returns. If it returns, its weaker then on the first tablet and often surfaces when another tablet is starting to take effect.

Thing is, having to use flunitrazepam to be able to use ecstasy is not ideal.. Having to use CNS depressants to use CNS stimulants is just not right. The combination often makes my behaviour pretty irrational as well.

It has been two years since I've had ecstasy now, but I got a feeling I want to try it out again soon.

Does anyone have any first-hand experience with the panic and anxiety when coming up or tripping on E?

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle it/avoid it?

Does anyone have a meaning on whether the panic is purely psychological or if it surfaces as a result of some chemical interaction alone?

I know I can handle it most of the time, but it has been a long time, I'm not positive I can control it any longer, although it might not strike again.

I know I can drop 3-4 mg's of flunitrazepam and the potential panic will be minimal and easy to control, but I'd rather stay crystal clear and experience a clean feeling of ecstasy..

I really do need advice from someone who understands my situation.

And yes, I have thought of never touching it again. Please bypass advice suggesting that. I know alot about how MDMA works and my decision of keeping it in my life, however rare, is final



Thanks in advance, help much appreciated!

I feel for you, and in fact i had EXACTLY the same experience my first time, in fact, it was so intense that i was hospitalised.

I won't go too much into detail, but i basically started to panic when i felt the drug's effects coming on. I was heating up badly, and my heart was racing (i knew these would both happen, but i was thinking about it so much that i was really freaking out.

I tried splashing water but it wasn't working (bear in mind i only did this one time ), and to make matters worse i was already very drunk. This added to dehydration. As you said, i began to feel extremely weightless, as if my arms and legs weighed nothing, and i was having tingling sensations all over. I've never been so scared in my life. Eventually, my friend took me out, and literally got me to hospital JUST in time, which i am still very thankful for. I spent the next night on the drip, feeling like an ass (but a very happy/high one ).

I felt side-effects for a few weeks after this incident. Namely that my heart would feel fast, i wouldn't be able to breathe calmly and properly, and my mind would just feel like it was "zapping". It's very hard to explain, but it would feel as if something inside my head was floating out, but when i concentrated on it, it would simply just shoot back in. I felt scattered, unfocused and couldn't do exercise without feeling really messed up. I also vowed never to take ecstasy again.

However, if nothing else, my curiosity and determination to prove that the drug was safe and i was just careless (i had double dropped on my first time, very strong pills) i did extensive reading on the drug for about a month. It took me about a month and a half to return to normal after the hospital, but eventually i had read enough about it, came on Bluelight and asked some questions about it, and just realised that i was not ready to experience what i did, and certainly not at that strength.

It must be noted that i had a severe panic attack when i smoked weed. This was a few weeks after the incident, and i had only smoked weed about 3 times previously, and i smoked a HELL of a lot. This lead me to think about my heart beating faster (I didn't realise at the time that weed did this) and thus resulted in me thinking that it was kicking the Ecstasy back so to speak (silly i know). I had to go to begalaas' house and sleep, and that wore off.

So anyway, i was bored one night, and me and a friend decided to go to the nightclub that i had the problem at. It is known to be a dodgy place, but i enjoyed the music and the scene, and he wanted to try Ecstasy, and i thought "well i can go along with him, i won't try it but i will watch over him, after all, i came through trouble!". So anyway we head off and get there, and he drops half. Feels nothing after 30 mins and decides to drop the other half. After a while he starts to feel very happy and high, and it gets stronger and stronger in a matter on minutes. And then i saw how much fun he was having (i never had that), so i decided to bite the bullet and drop. I said i was going to the toilet, bought a pill and dropped it. After it kicked in, i had the time of my life. It wasn't a strong pill, and i was nervous before i took it, but the minute that it kicked in i knew how sad it was to be so scared. I was so happy, i danced the night away and had overcome my fear.

So what caused me to overcome it? I had read up on it, knew what to expect, took it easy, took regular breaks, drank enough water but not too much, and just thought that if it gets too much we can leave. There isn't much to it, and therefore i believe that at the end of the day you just need to be careful, and take less than you think you may need. If your friends take one, take half. It's better to not feel too much, believe me! You can always take more after. So yes, my advice is to split the dosing. Take half, then a while later take another half for example.

I can't help you with the whole benzos thing, as i have never taken them (haven't needed to). But other things you could do are have a sober friend there, be in a quiet environment (the club we go to is very hostile, dark, noisy and has techno music, not good for a panic attack trust me!) and just remember that if you have good pills, Ecstasy can be one of the safer drugs. You have done it before and enjoy it. Now i have no fears and do it often, and everytime is as good as the last. Just be careful. Happy Rolling.

Peace

Rich

Sorry, i realised this is more of an account of what happened. There isn't much advice in there, except for the last bit. Mods you can remove any crap that ain't necessary/is irrelevant.

Another thing though. I did begin to have a mini-panic attack when after it thought i was used to E i took a stronger pill, and the come up was extremely intense. What i did was i went outside the club with my friend, went for a walk, sat down and had a chat to get my mind off things. The outside air, controlled breathing and chatting really worked. I went back inside later and had a blast. I still go on walks to this day, as it helps me come up too.

After a while you get used to it being so intense, and even now i sometimes need a few minutes silent, just to keep myself together .

Peace

Thanks. Sounds similar to what I'm going through, for sure.

I've seen first-timers say things like "I'm not sure I can handle this" and seeming sort of panicy, however it always seems to pass when the effect fully sets in. With them it's more like being anxious, I'm experiencing something I would describe as an escalating rush or seizure that I can feel both physically in my head as well as panic/desperation mentally.

The one and only time I wasn't able to control the panic (First time I ever experienced panic on ecstasy) it more or less made me suffer for a year and a half or so, after. It happened after a long night of tripping and not the onset/come up.

I might've just dropped another pill and I think I had a few small puffs of marihuana. Can't remember clearly if I had another pill at the time though.

I'm hoping the panic (though it feels like a chemically triggered physical experience) is just a mental/psychological thing..

It feels like the inside of my head is burning and I get so stressed out that I have to ignore everything around and me and focus all my efforts not to let it take control.

Kinda feels like i'm fighting an intense stomach ache, only the ache is centered in my head. The desperation of not having a toilet around or so, only mental. *lol* Or the feeling of having to vomit, intense nausia, just in a mental sense, that would be another thing that could be compared to it.

Appreciate more advice on this subject, if anyone has any experience with rough come ups or panic. I'd even appreciate descriptions on exactly how you experience/feel it. I'm not sure everyone is referring to panic as the same thing.

Thanks again.

I actually suffer from panic attacks and anxiety so I know first hand what it's like to roll with panic disorder. I like to roll so I still do, although I will refuse to roll unless I have my xanax that I am scripted to or some other form of a downer.. I usually take around 1mg xanax at the same time of the dosing of the X and than I keep taking .5mg of xanax throughout the roll.. This basically makes for a anxiety and panic free roll. The xanax doesn't take away ANTHING from the roll at all (do not listen to what people have to say about 'xanax/alcohol kills peoples rolls' because it DOES NOT!)

Good luck, and have fun

This is probably mostly a psychological phenomenon; your brain re-playing the fear of the original panic attack when you find yourself in the same situation again (using MDMA.)

If you want to try a rather unconventional approach to the problem, instead of trying to force the anxiety under control or medicate it, reach out to the drug...welcome the changes to your perception as they come, embrace them as harbingers of something wonderful about to happen instead of as a warning of a danger. Try to be utterly open to and unafraid of the experience. In my experience, trying to mentally overpower a drug-influenced panic attack is more likely to cause trouble than solve it.

pzykiq, what you described sounds alot like what i experienced for about 5 mins on my first roll. it was so intense, i had taken 2 pills, was experiencing the same things you mention all except for burning sensation inside my head.
these sensations first happened while was at the top of my stairs and it felt like i literally floated down them. i was very aware that my hand was sliding down the raling and i wasnt falling. i felt for about 20 seconds that i "just might lose it here." i've always been into theater and was trained to be highly sensitive as to what's going on with myself physically, movement and so forth. so i knew that i wasnt hurt or bleeding, i wasn't broken anywhere, all my airways were clear, so i knew i wasn't in any physical harm.
i knew i was just getting one helluva rush from the drug. so i floated on over to a chair an sat down and rolled hard. my advice is, just be highly aware of what's going on with your body. are you bleeding? broken? can you breathe? these are the most important. if these are all good, chances are, you're not in any harm.
After you've decided that those three things are a-okay, just sit back, breathe slowly till you relax. try sipping water or just moaning kinda like mmmmm... meditating till the panic goes away.
hope your future experiences are all positive ones!

Good advice TheDEA. And congrats on 500 posts.

Anxiety and panic are tricky things, and though undoubtedly there's some sort of neurochemical component, there is clearly a large psychological component too...

Many people report that the thing that gets them over their problem with pills is knowledge -- knowledge that its almost certain you won't die, that you won't fry your brain etc... most of the anxiety people describe on here seems to relate to fears of dying, or something similar. Arm yourself with information which you believe in to combat this, and you may find your problem alleviates to a significant degree...

Smoking weed set it off for me. I was freaking out so much I couldn't even tell anyone. I couldn't talk or move. The only way I can describe it is all the alarm bells in your head warning you of some immenent danger were ringing at maximum volume. It just felt like something was EXTERMELY wrong although I couldn't figure out what it was.

Breathing deeply and splashing cold water on my face got rid of it quickly though.

Sk8punk151: Yep I have used the same strategy and it has worked very well, though I'm somehow confident I would get a cleaner trip without dropping 2-3 mg's of flunitrazepam beforehand. I'm still not able to single out what is different, because the MDMA totally overrides the effect of the downers, though they are still keeping the anxiety down.

TheDEA.org: I definitely regard the phenomenon as mostly a psychological one as well, but as VelocideX says there's also a neurochemical component. When I don't preload with anything the panic attacks are violent and even worse depending on how much I drop at a time. You're makin a really solid arguement here about fighting the drug. I've been thinking many times, what would happen if I managed to chill and not fear the panic attack, stop fighting it and just completely relax. However I don't think I'm tough enough to try this. I go into the highest alert level once it happens and struggle until it is gone. Fighting a psychological symptom sounds rather stupid let alone, the only thing that would make sense really would be to calm down and not face it/stress it. Interesting approach, still not sure I could handle it though.

I also feel knowledge is alpha omega, the first time it happened I couldn't take control and I was left in a frenzy of disorientation/utter fear and confusion, in the end I'd given up and sort of embraced the thought of dying. I thought I was gonna die from intercranial pressure increasing due to bleeding. It was a real mess.
This assumption came from me reading misinformative propaganda flyers about ecstasy causing intercranial bleedings.. Said nothing about the link with overheating/dehydration etc.. Of course this was all imagination and false information taking a nasty turn on me.

Then after reading maybe 4000 pages on panic and the actual effect of ecstasy I came to know more about it. I still feared it, but when I ended up doing ecstasy again by accident the knowledge I'd gotten helped me rationalize the whole experience of panic..

TheHIGHroller: Yeah those techniques og breathing slowly and deeply and splashing cold water has basically helped me maintain control when put to the test, several times..

Very accurate description of what I felt myself.. Couldn't have explained it any better really.

Sprinkling cold water onto your body to take your mind off the psychological mess and onto physical sensitivity.. It is really effective.. Also flushing cold water onto your head, chills you down and somehow makes it feel like you are slowing down the pace/intensity of the anxiety symptoms. I also fear that taking just a few puffs of weed set it off with me as well. I've always been really sensitive to cannabis.

I guess I'm able to handle the panic, though I might still need the downers to take the edge off it.

I've been put to the test several times psychologically on ecstasy, busting my girlfriend cheating, witnessed someone get their arm halfway chopped off with a long blade, been threatened to lay down on the floor with my hands on the back with a gun to my head etc. These situations I can handle.. The panic surfacing from nowhere however takes me to the very limit.

What scares me is how devastating and huge these building panic rushes feel. The fact that they feel physical as well as psychological.. Also the fact that I think it's gonna get real ugly if you surrender and go into complete panic.. No way back at that point, you'll be left sliding in and out of the state while all positive effects are gone.

Happened once, but I'm never gonna let myself go through that again.

Though there are still unanswered questions, I feel I'm ready for this again. It's been two years and I'm gonna enjoy it like it was my first. Can't wait, just need to wait for the right opportunity..

Thanks alot people, all this different input really helps me understand and prepare better for these situations.. Much, much appreciated.

Re: Need some advice on panic (Experienced E user) Use of Benzos to relax on MDMA.

pzykiq said:

What i refer to as "panic" is this extreme feeling of stress and disorientation. Nothing like coming up and having your vision blurred and shaking etc, but literally a burning sensation inside your head, tingling in my face and a really unpleasant lightheadedness/feeling of being weightless.

Click to expand...

Just as the pill kicks in, my head always gets hot & I feel mild anxiety. All I do is breathe & tell myself to calm down, & get ready for the ride . After this eventually passes (10-20 seconds) it's all good.

Experiencing the same thing practically every time I drop. It lasts a bit longer tho, Usually on and off for about 5-10 minutes. Depends on how much I've taken at once.

Thanks alot man. Very nice description of how it feels. Also comforting to hear people first experience this after taking ecstasy for a long time.

When I was getting back into rolling in 2002 I learned alot about how to manage the panic. However it's been a while and I want to make sure I don't end up repeating 99.

Got so much more responsibility these days so I'm unable to just exit the real world to recover, like I did back then when I was 18.

Thanks again, really appreciate the input.

Do Klonopin/Xanax decrease MDMA potency?

I'm interested if benzodiazepines taken before E, especially Klonopin and Xanax do decrease E potency ? I tried looking through search engine but didn't find any info (maybe I just haven't found posts concerning this specific topic).

I usually take ativan half way through to keep heart rate low, I don't notice a effect unless i take like 5 of them, then it just makes you tired and slow. but touching somebody else still feels great!