preloading for MDMA - what the?

pleloading for MDMA - what the?

Me and a mate decided to give preloading a try last weekend- but the results weren't quite what we expected...

about 14 hours prior to going out,we had:
-1000mg vitamin c
-500mg magnesium
then 3 hrs prior:
-1000mg vitamin c
-500mg Magnesium
-1 or 2 5htp tablet (can't remember)

anyway that night about 45min-1hr after dropping the rest of the group were goin off (there was about 7 of us- all took green mitz's, all from the same batch), but me and my mate just weren't feeling it as hard as usual... dropped a 2nd and 3rd time (2 1/2 hr intervals) and we were well and truly having a good time... but it just bothered be as to why it took so long to kick in. (it was a VERY noticable difference - i could feel the effects but only really vaguely until dropping the 2nd time).

So the next morning on our way to the next venue i was having a chat with someone and they were sayin "naa don't take vitamin c, they use that stuff on ppl when they OD", also said that it kills the effects of MDMA etc... She really made it seem like it was common knowledge among users. Since then i've heard a couple of other acquaintances give advice along the same line!

Just curious to see what you guys know on the subject
Thanks!

5HTP same day as a pill allways made me think my pill was a dud, i allways preload with 5htp through the week but not after wednesday night = a much better peak. Im not sure how vit c would do the same i take 1000 mgs every day.

This is off the top of my head, but because I have not referenced it, just consider it hearsay.

As far as I know the vitamin C thing is a myth and aside from that antioxidants are supposed to help protect your brain from neurotoxic effects. I have heard of people giving someone who is on LSD and having a bad trip some vitamin C to stop the bad trip, but this is just a placebo and only acts in that effect.

I think set and setting may have played the biggest part in the experience you had. You were probably expecting something fantastic because you had pre-loaded, and due to thinking about the effects rather than just relaxing and letting it all happen you may have not noticed what was going on. It's amasing how over-powering psychology can be, I've seen people trashed off their heads tell me "I'm not feeling it", mainly because they are searching for the effects rather than just letting it happen.

I have heard similar things to what muthrd said about pre-loading with 5-htp so close to dropping. I think if you look in the FAQ it might have something about it. I dont think pre-loading is such a great thing really other than some magnesium for your muscles, but post-loading with some vitamin C a banana and a warm cup of tea is a good idea in my opinion.

Also just remember that you will hear a lot of bullshit about what some things can do to other things (i.e. the vitamin C and MDMA thing), so it is a good idea to look up the information, be informed and tell others things that are the truth (telling them that you read it in a reputable source also helps).

Good luck next time!

I agree with most of whats been said. Don't take 5-HTP within the 24 hours before the pill, you just don't get that intense peak.

With the Vitamin C i can't find anytihng to suggest it would cause the pill to be less strong. Personally i take 1000mg about an hour before hand and another 1000mg about 12 hours later and have never had a problem. Theres no need to go overboard with the vitamins, they can only do so much.

The most valuable method to protect against neurotoxicity is to take antioxidants. It is now known that hypothermia increases neurotoxic damage and free radicals are the culprit causing the oxidative stress but the exact process is still unknown. I would consider antioxidants the most important precautionary measure in a preloading schedule.

If you have had at least a two week break I would suggest using 5-HTP in the postload only, and this is the opinion of many people here (there is a thread about it somewhere).

I'm going to have to disagree. From my understanding the whole Vitamin C thing is based on the idea that amphetamines are secreted more quickly from acidic environments. I also have no evidence for this but I read it on Bluelight somewhere so it must be true.

Also, my own personal experience is that when you take Vitamin C tablets, it's effective in your body for a few hours before it's flushed out through urine. This of course doesn't apply to the time-release version and is the same regardless of whether you have 250mg, 500mg or whatever.

During those few hours, I've found that it's impossible to have an intense peak.

I discovered this in the first place when I started taking Vitamin C when I was out simply to boost my immune system and ward off cold/flu/tonsilitus which I used to catch all the time from being out all night on pills.

After a short while experimenting, I found that taking any before or during the night would seriously diminish my peak so I now only take it after I've finished having pills.

I'll also take some if the ride is getting a bit too much and I want off.

Of course this is all personal conjecture, but I swear by it so it's real to me.

Interseting...

-Yeah I didnt mention that I also had a gaviscon shortly beforehand (read around here somewhere it makes your stomach less acidic therefore allowing the mdma to absorb through the stomach instead of being digested).

- (on the topic of vit c:

hoptis said:

I'll also take some if the ride is getting a bit too much and I want off.

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^ yeah thats pretty much wat i was told aswell

-Thanks for the info on the HTP aswell every1! might just stick to postloading with that 1 from now on... too expensive to have them every day

-Also on the magnesium (by the way it really does work no jaw ache at all!!) ... BUT is there a possibility by relaxing your muscles it could also reduce the amount of eye wobbles?? Coz i really enjoy the eye wobbles

Yeah I didnt mention that I also had a gaviscon shortly beforehand (read around here somewhere it makes your stomach less acidic therefore allowing the mdma to absorb through the stomach instead of being digested).

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Unlikely. Very very few drugs get absorbed effectively in the stomach, because of the large investment of mucous. And even with gaviscon, the pH of your stomach is going to be very acidic. The absorption is going to have in the small intestines one way or the other.

As people have said preloading with 5-HTP can reduce the potency of rolls.

From my understanding the whole Vitamin C thing is based on the idea that amphetamines are secreted more quickly from acidic environments. I also have no evidence for this but I read it on Bluelight somewhere so it must be true

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While that is true, your urine is allready pretty acidic whether or not you take vitamin C... but if you are concerned about that, you can get vitamine C in the form of Magnesium Ascorbate, that way you get your Magnesium and vitamin C at the same time.

As people have said preloading with 5-HTP can reduce the potency of rolls.

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I have to disagree from my experience preloading with 5-HTP 2-3 hours before the MDMA consume makes my roll more intense, tryed it lots of times different ways and came to conclusion that 200 - 400 mg 5-HTP 2 hrs before the roll has the best effects on me.

after al the years of trying out different pre/post loading with different things, i would have to swear by l-tyrosine and alpha lipoic acid

these days things just get so much funkier (off less) with this kinda regiment,

oh and eat,light exercise and sleep are still winners tho

I think you will find it is the B group vitamins (spesifically B6 and B12 from memory) which tend to dull the MDMA experience. Cant remember for the life of me where that information came from, but in my case at least it seems to be the truth.

i haven't noticed anything different, i still take my berocca in the preload & post load (and during load) and if anything i feel far more alert and charged. The peak is no different and i feel so much more cleaner and better.

Best of all i don't feel as bad the next day, and the week after i feel so much better.

Mind you i still don't need to take much MDMA - usually half a pill for an entire session.

chugs said:

i haven't noticed anything different,

##The peak is no different and i feel so much more cleaner and better.

##Best of all i don't feel as bad the next day, and the week after i feel so much better.

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hmmmm.................. i think the result on the flip side shows how its working, pre and post loading is not really about trying to increase your peak its all about the getting your body back to normal after an experience.

and it looks like its working from these statements

I have noticed on the 2 occasions i took vitamin c the day of rolling, i barely peaked at all - one was with pills i'd had before and knew were really good, the second was with friends who'd had the same pill and they were really wasted and i didnt get much out of it at all. in my opinion, i doubt it was coincidence, so i know i'm never going to do it again!!

Here's one that doesn't seem to get mentioned very much nowadays...

grapefruit juice

I can't reference it right now unfortunately, and i am not too sure on its effects on neurotoxicity. But what it does do, if taken for several days before the experience, is slow the breakdown of MDMA by way of competitive enzyme inhibition in the liver. This can lead to a longer effect and/or more effect from the same dose.
You could infer from this, however, that as far as your brain is concerned you have effectively taken a higher dose, hence unlike the philosophy of post loading when we try to reduce the damage and after effects, this could in theory make them worse.
(more drug effect = more after effects. makes sense)

but for those looking to get more from the same dose, it is worth a try.

The enzyme that grapefriut juice inhibits has very little to do with MDMA metabolism. Still, tastes nice.

^ What if you have a 2D6 deficiency? Wouldn't the 3A4 route to MDA then be expected to come into play?

Nah probably not, other enzymes would take up the strain well before 3A4 would. CYP2D6 only takes the load of about 50-30% of the MDMA. CYP1A2 probably plays a roughly equal load, and 2B6 also chips in there. [1, 2].

Infact I'm starting to become increasingly suspcious of the idea that CYP3A4 mediates MDMA --> MDA... Infact, I suspect that CYP2D6 and CYP2B6 play a bigger role in that reaction... but we'll have to wait and see.

^lol getting a little over my head there

The 5HTP preload question seems to be open for debate - must be different from person to person... personally i think im leaning to the side of NOT preloading shortly before.. thought its interesting to wonder how something thats a direct precursor to seretonin and metabolizes within an hour (according to the 5HTP FAQ Here) could possibly make a roll less intense?

PS: im still a little curious as to knowing whether magnesium plays a part in reducing eye wobbles? any ideas?

[EDIT: grammar]

How does 5-HTP boost some peoples rolls and not others? I have about a million theories. And I don't know whether any of them are right. But the fact remains, some people 5-HTP boosts their rolls, some report the opposite.

I have heard reports of magnesium reducing eye wobbles.