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DexterMeth
20-02-2005, 04:48
This is going to be pretty subjective, but those with experience in this...What do you find to be the single best OTC opiod potentiator?

I have access to a few prescription potentiators that i take in combo from time to time, but those are running low and would like to know what everyone uses that is OTC.

Aside from this, my favorite potentiator cocktale is: DXM, dimematap, Benadryl, Dramamine, Phenergan, Meclinzine HCL, and Immodium AD.

Don't know of the safety of doing this, but i'm always careful not to take too much of any of them. It sure does increase the effect of opiods if you only have a little amount though.

jebba q
20-02-2005, 07:19
Man, why the fuck would you take Immodium?!! that's for when you DON'T HAVE OPIATES and you don't want to spray shit every time you have to fart.... don't tell me you've never heard of fucking tagamet? maybe it's best....

DexterMeth
20-02-2005, 10:31
the active chem in immodium AD is a known opiate potentiator. I don't take it for any other reason. I know, it will make me more constipated. The active chem is almost an opiate itself. It's very similar to opiates or something like that, but lacks something that would make it anything closer.

Tagament. Never heard of it. Are you from the states?

jebba q
20-02-2005, 11:12
yup i live in california and Tagamet is otc everywhere in the USA as far as I know. search on BL about it and there's a ton of info. I think it works just as well as grapefruit juice; it's the same ingredient that makes your liver process the opiates slower thus making your pills last longer.
i really didn't think immodium is a potentiator. it was created by scientists trying to make a fentynal analogue so it IS similar in chemistry to an opiate but definitely not one. I think most people would agree with me on that, but whatever works for you. but you should really get some tagamet or grapefruit man and take/drink 30-60 minutes before your dose and you'll be high longer, but it wont make you higher

DexterMeth
20-02-2005, 11:40
no, you are right about the immodium. I'm pretty damn sure it's a potentiator though. And i forgot to mention grapefruit juice. I always use it. Tagamet sounds like something right up my alley. Though it doesn't sound like a potentiator...(I.E. making the effect more potent/stronger). By how you described it, seems more like an OTC opiod duration extender. Sounds like something i should always take with my opiates though. That's for the info.

ChronicPyro
20-02-2005, 18:04
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DexterMeth
The active chem is almost an opiate itself. It's very similar to opiates or something like that, but lacks something that would make it anything closer.

It's an opiod that can't cross the blood brain barrier but obviously still affects the opiod recepters in the digestive system.

BingeBoy
20-02-2005, 18:52
I think I read on that Cold water extraction webpage that loperamide ( the stuff in immodium correct me if im wrong) is a potentiatior , it's an opiate but doesn't cross the blood brain barrier or nearly not,so for most people it only affects opiate receptors in your body and not in your brain , i think however there is a very small group of people who are sensitive to it and might get some kind of buzz.

but I'm not sure of it , gotta find the page url.

sonic
20-02-2005, 19:43
Don't forget grapefruit juice, it has the same effect as tagament (enzyme blocker).

EDIT: Actually both tagament and grapefruit juice aren't exactly opiate potentiators. All they do is prevent your body from metabolizing the opiate so it stays in your system longer.

Also, these enzyme blockers won't work for codeine because codeine needs to be metabolized so it will turn into morphine.

This subject is covered in depth at: www.coldwaterworld.com

spini4
20-02-2005, 20:07
Try DL-Phenylalanine thats what i use... I recently had done a experiment to test it out because of more recent posts which asked but never awnserd to if it worked and it in fact does work but to an extent its not gonna blow you away it will just prolong the experiance made me nod a bit more than i usually do too.

Coolio
20-02-2005, 20:24
Benadryl is the best OTC potentiator of opiates.

fastandbulbous
20-02-2005, 20:47
Also, these enzyme blockers won't work for codeine because codeine needs to be metabolized so it will turn into morphine

They will, grapefruit juice contains a flavanoid that is an inhibitor of CYP3A4, that's the cytochrome P450 responsible for removing the N-methyl group from codeine, dihydrocodeine, morphine etc; so inhibiting this enzyme slows the metabolism of those drugs to inactive metabolic products. The enzyme that removes the O-methyl group from codeine, dihydrocodeine etc is CYP2D6.

BilZ0r has a good post about opiate metabolism here (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184919&r=6)

ka3ajm
20-02-2005, 20:57
Immodium was tested in monkeys who were given morphine and there withdrawal symptoms went away when administered Immodium.

Something like that.... I dont know the full history of this. Maybe Im not phrasing it right.... something had to with monkeys and testing them with immodium.

I read it in this book called "Opium for the Masses" and Immodium was listed among the opiates. And they said they put it there because it was tested in monkeys who were experiencing withdrawals and were given Immodium.

sonic
20-02-2005, 21:03
Originally posted by fastandbulbous
They will, grapefruit juice contains a flavanoid that is an inhibitor of CYP3A4, that's the cytochrome P450 responsible for removing the N-methyl group from codeine, dihydrocodeine, morphine etc; so inhibiting this enzyme slows the metabolism of those drugs to inactive metabolic products. The enzyme that removes the O-methyl group from codeine, dihydrocodeine etc is CYP2D6.

BilZ0r has a good post about opiate metabolism here (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184919&r=6)

Ok, so what you're saying is that grapefruit juice blocks the enzyme that breaks down codeine into an inactive product, but it doesn't block the enzyme that converts the codeine into morphine? What about tagament?
Sorry for the dumb questions, but I need to learn somehow.

fastandbulbous
20-02-2005, 22:10
I'm not sure about cimetidine, but I'll have a look (I've got lots of it, but I don't like some of its side effects, so I'll only use it if I get out of control reflux).

Grapefruit juice works really well though; I'd always been a bit sceptical about how much effect it could have, but yesterday I drank 750ml of grapefruit juice, then had 60mg of dihydrocodeine about 40 mins afterward. It was amazing - it felt like I'd had one or two Diconal (I had some prescribed, many years ago).

Needless to say, I'm now a convert (it's healthy as well - the grapefruit juice I mean, not the inhibiting N-demethylation of dihydrocodeine!)

Not only does it inhibit the brakdown of dihydrocodeine to nordihydrocodeine, but it inhibits the breakdown of dihydromorphine (from O-demethylation of dihydrocodeine) to nordihydromorphine

Now all I need to find is something that induces 2D6, and most of the dihydrocodeine swallowed will end up as dihydromorphine :) :)

DexterMeth
21-02-2005, 02:06
wow, thanks for the responses. Very informative in regards to grapefruit and immmodium.

batailleseyes
22-02-2005, 04:32
You can also look into Proglumide (Milid) and quinine. I am currently experimenting with Proglumide, but the effects have been less than spectacular... it works very well for others (or so I've read).

tastethewaste
24-02-2005, 03:10
wow, i just tried the grapefruit juice thing for the first time today, had some good results.
so at around 2:45 i railed 40mg of oxycontin. then i drove over to our local 7-11 and picked up a bottle of grapefruit juice ( just the small one, like 16oz or what ever). i then proceeded to chew up another 10mg of oxy and chased it with the whole bottle of juice. at this point i was already starting to feel the effects of the first dose of oxy. by the time i got home i was defiantly starting to get some nice euphoric feelings, i found this a bit odd because it usually takes around 60mg to get slight euphoria due to tolerance.

so i go up to my room to relax and do a little studying for school and such, then the nods hit. actually they hit really hard, like the way they did back when i would take 30-40mg with little to no tolerance, it actually worried me a little bit, but not enough for me not to enjoy it. this ended up last for a good 3 hours or so, to the point that i almost passed out a couple times. needless to say i was quite impressed by this reaction (except it made studying near impossible)

it is now 7.05 and i am still feeling quite good. i highly recommend the grapefruit juice and opiate combo. but would also suggest being very careful

DexterMeth
24-02-2005, 03:22
and make sure you drink the grapefruite juice a little before you take your opiods.

Dirty_Deed
24-02-2005, 03:40
Well I thought I'd just say: Kava extract with opiates works a treat and doesn't feel as messy or seedy as using pharm combos. More clean relaxing, especially opium + kava :)

Peace Out

Jaw Clenching
24-02-2005, 05:45
Originally posted by fastandbulbous
Now all I need to find is something that induces 2D6, and most of the dihydrocodeine swallowed will end up as dihydromorphine :) :)


CYP2D6 Inducers (http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/urmc/AAPCC/tables.html) -

Carbamazepine
Rifampin
Phenobarbital
Ritonavir
Phenytoin

Jaw Clenching
24-02-2005, 05:47
Also, I think DXM is the best OTC opioid potentiator.

Grapefruit juice and Benadryl are good too.

TMoney11111
05-12-2005, 00:58
Well I thought I'd just say: Kava extract with opiates works a treat and doesn't feel as messy or seedy as using pharm combos. More clean relaxing, especially opium + kava :)

Peace Out

Kava is known to be very bad on the liver, so I dont think this would be a good combo.

flashbit3205
05-12-2005, 07:06
immodium ad was originally going to be the most strongest synthetic opiate on the market but it did not pass the BBB and therefore just tied your bowels up.. pharm company slapped the name immodium ad on it and sold it as an OTC med

TMoney11111
05-12-2005, 07:17
Well you learn something every day. It still makes sense that it would potentiate the effects of an opiate, because it is a member of the opioid family, synthetic or not, and combining two opiates is going to produce stronger effects than taking each seperately. There is really only one way to find out. I am going to put this shit to test tommorow. Drink maybe a liter of grapefruit juice, take some antacids so it doesnt fuck my stomach up, take a few Immodium, wait for it all to settle in, and pop the rest of my vicodin.

fastandbulbous
05-12-2005, 08:34
CYP 2D6 Inducers

Carbamazepine
Rifampin
Phenobarbital
Ritonavir
Phenytoin

Can't exactly say that I'd fancy taking any of those drugs to be honest. The two antibiotics/antivirals are definitely out (have you seen their side effects!) and I'd be wary of carbamazepine & phenytoin as well - that just leaves phenobarb which I might possibly try sometime (got a huge excess of it due to having a cat with epilepsy - each month he's prescribed twice what he actually needs to control it, so at the moment I've got about 2g of excess phenobarbitone) - well maybe a small dose (30mg) to see how it goes; I've had phenobarb before and I can't say that I enjoyed it at all - just felt tired

johanneschimpo
05-12-2005, 11:45
TMoney - I wouldn't recommend taking imodium with vicodin, it will only add to the constipation. No good will come from that (other than placebo).

jasoncrest
05-12-2005, 16:00
ANY OTC muscle-relaxant is a good opioid potentiator.
ANY OTC anticholinergic antihistamine is also a good opioid potentiator.

BingeBoy
05-12-2005, 22:13
F&b i read alcohol is a cyp2d6 inducer seems safer than a phenobarb in low dose

Ray K. Hessel
05-12-2005, 22:27
my vote rests on good ol etoh. Dangerous.

TMoney11111
06-12-2005, 01:18
Ok, Immodium AD is DEFINITLY a good opiate enchancer. I took 10 mg about 15 minutes after drinking 30 oz of grapefruit juice, and then took about 15 mg of vicodin 45 minutes later, and then smoked a fatty. Not only did it feel more like taking 20 mg, but the peak also lasted about an hour longer than usual. I definitly suggest trying this, but make sure you take an antacid, like tums, before u drink the grapefruit juice, it can make for an upset stomach because of its acidity levels. (Added)--- By the way, What drugs are "OTC muscle relaxers"? I dont believe I have heard of such a thing. The closest thing that can be bought OTC to a muscle relaxer I have heard of is maybe dramamine,,, dimenhydrinate or dramamine II, which is Meclizine. I have never used Meclizine, but dimenhydrinate caused convulsions for me, and diphenhydramine (benadryl) makes me tired from 25 mg alone. Oh, and i did not experience any discomfort as a result of constipation from 5 pills of Immodium. It actually helped get rid of the tummy ache I had from drinking 30 oz of grapefruit juice.

funkee
08-12-2005, 01:28
Consistent daily use of Piracetam (nootropic) is an amazing potentiator for numerous psychoactives, including opiates.

Shlong
02-01-2006, 05:30
a friend was telling me that eating something high in fat, like a jelly doughnut, will greatly potentiate oxycodone...any truth to this?

Jamshyd
02-01-2006, 08:09
Perhaps it is a synchronicity, but I thought I'd put this up here in case you end up like me:

I have (on separate occasions for each) tried all of:
Grapefruit Juice,
Cimitidine,
Ranitidine

With both Codeine and Oxycodone.

I found that these "potentiators" do absolutely nothing but RADICALLY increase side-effects, and I mean vomiting several times over an 8-hour period after ingesting 20mg Oxycodone (the dose I would take normally) with grapefruit juice. The side-effects totally overpowered the high. It has been consistent whenever I use these potentiators with those two drugs.

DXM and Ketamine work better for me, and certainly do lower tolerance. However low doses of Ketamine tend to be stimulating and might distract from that illusive nod - keep that in mind.

I also agree with Jasoncrest's recommendation.

EDIT: Oops, forgot that Ketamine is not OTC in most places!

johanneschimpo
02-01-2006, 08:27
Jamshyd - is ketamine OTC ANYWHERE??

Jamshyd
02-01-2006, 18:02
I hear it is OTC in India, Nepal, (some parts of) Mexico and a few other capitalist-leached countries. I do not know as to the accuracy of this account. I am very sure that Ketamine is VERY popular with ambulent doctors in rural central asia (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15821372&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum) where doctors travel and need to carry something versatile. Of course, nothing would be more versatile than Ketamine :).

I used to live in a developing country in the middle east. Ketamine there is unheard of as a recreational drug - unfortunately in Arabic, "narcotic" and "anaesthetic" are the same word, so its futile to ask ;).

bmurphr1
03-01-2006, 00:20
I believe I remember reading somewhere that Loperamide can actually cross the blood-brain barrier with the help of Sinequan/Doxepin. Something about the combination of the two allows amounts of Loperamide to enter the BBB and thus, euphoria. I actually have some Doxepin sitting right beside me now, as well as some Immodium. If I can get enough feedback, I'll try it out and see if it works.

newbeginning
03-01-2006, 23:57
I believe I remember reading somewhere that Loperamide can actually cross the blood-brain barrier with the help of Sinequan/Doxepin. Something about the combination of the two allows amounts of Loperamide to enter the BBB and thus, euphoria. I actually have some Doxepin sitting right beside me now, as well as some Immodium. If I can get enough feedback, I'll try it out and see if it works.

Loperamide is structurally similar to meperidine.

After an extensive search, I couldn't find the page I'm looking for, but there was a test done on subjects using loperamide and quinidine as a potentiator. The results showed respiratory depression. The text went on to warn of the abuse potential. I know that bluelight has a thread with the link. If I can find it, I'll let you know.

Another chemical, which is similar to quinidine, is quinine.

One time, under the influence of 80mg of oxy, I took some loperamide. I definately noticed a difference, but it wasn't positive. It was a dirty feeling. It's hard to describe.

...I found the article, but I don't have the source. It is a quote from a member on BL.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=83089&highlight=loperamide+quinine


BACKGROUND: Although the antidiarrheal loperamide is a potent opiate, it does not produce opioid central nervous system effects at usual doses in patients. On the basis of in vitro studies demonstrating that loperamide is a substrate for the adenosine triphosphate-dependent efflux membrane transporter P-glycoprotein, we postulated that inhibition of P-glycoprotein with quinidine would increase entry of loperamide into the central nervous system with resultant respiratory depression. METHODS: To test this hypothesis, a 16-mg dose of loperamide was administered to eight healthy male volunteers in the presence of either 600 mg quinidine, a known inhibitor of P-glycoprotein, or placebo. Central nervous system effects were measured by evaluation of the respiratory response to carbon dioxide rebreathing as a measure of opiate-induced respiratory depression. RESULTS: Loperamide produced no respiratory depression when administered alone, but respiratory depression occurred when loperamide (16 mg) was given with quinidine at a dose of 600 mg (P < .001). These changes were not explained by increased plasma loperamide concentrations. CONCLUSION: This study therefore demonstrates first the potential for important drug interactions to occur by a new mechanism, namely, inhibition of P-glycoprotein, and second that the lack of respiratory depression produced by loperamide, which allows it to be safely used therapeutically, can be reversed by a drug causing P-glycoprotein inhibition, resulting in serious toxic and abuse potential.

lighterbandit
22-04-2006, 23:20
poppy seeds are technically OTC, and technically the tea from them does contain opiates, so technically.....poppy seeds are the best OTC opiate potentiator! LoL

`bLow?
22-04-2006, 23:21
i guess poppy pods would be the best, them being an opiate and all.

CafeContin
22-04-2006, 23:48
I would have to say benadryl and DXM are my favorite OTC drugs to take with opioids. Although I will substitute any other sedative antihistamine in a pinch.

lighterbandit
22-04-2006, 23:52
poppy pods aren't OTC.

antony
22-04-2006, 23:56
poppy pods aren't OTC.

they can be if you look hard enough.



but fresh grapefruit juice (not ruby red shit) and a nevermind
talk about nodding off.
Ill see ya there

lighterbandit
01-06-2006, 08:37
Why doesn't ruby red work? It tastes a whole hell of a lot better.

My new vote for the best OTC opiate potentiator: Whip Cream Chargers
I know, you wish you'd thought of it.

OCjunky
01-06-2006, 20:10
Small doses of diphenhydramine and DXM produce a more sedated high. So basically just these OTC meds dont really produce any more "euphoria" but will produce a higher tendency to nod out.....

DexterMeth
04-06-2006, 13:39
I've learned a lot about potentiation and the like since I first posted this over a year ago. Whippets are not a potentiator. And to OCjunky, you are correct. Although I'm not fully sure about DXM. I think it may actually be a mild potentiator. As in it actually potentiates the effects of the opiates themselves, whether it makes them last longer, or increases the concentration of the opiate in your blood level or whatever. I have this really good guide on methadone potentiation that walks you through meds from A-Z that tells you what they do and if they potentiate or not, and if they are dangerous or not. Here's the link. I think some of you might find it very informative. This link is posted in at least a couple other threads on here. http://www.atforum.com/mdi_booklet.shtml
I started "The Ultimate Methadone Potentiation thread" or some bs like that not too long ago, and it is there.

jasoncrest
04-06-2006, 20:07
I have this really good guide on methadone potentiation that walks you through meds from A-Z that tells you what they do and if they potentiate or not, and if they are dangerous or not. Here's the link. I think some of you might find it very informative. This link is posted in at least a couple other threads on here. http://www.atforum.com/mdi_booklet.shtml


This .pdf is great, but it doesn't list Loperamide or Quinine...

lighterbandit
26-06-2006, 17:46
Dextermeth, as usual you are correct.(about the whipits). i admit i was high when i made the post. But you can't shoot down my poppy seeds suggestion. i still win.

rashandreflex
26-06-2006, 20:29
You can also look into Proglumide (Milid) and quinine. I am currently experimenting with Proglumide, but the effects have been less than spectacular... it works very well for others (or so I've read).

proglumide is not OTC in the US. i usually use tagamet (cimetidine) or maybe grapefruit juice although as it's been pointed out these aren't potentiators, just 'extenders.' personallly i don't like to get really fucked up (ie, using DXM) or really tired (ie, using diphenhydramine) or really constipated (ie, immodium) so i haven't really found any useful OTC potentiators.

jasoncrest
27-06-2006, 18:55
personallly i don't like to get really fucked up (ie, using DXM) or really tired (ie, using diphenhydramine) or really constipated (ie, immodium) so i haven't really found any useful OTC potentiators.

Try an OTC muscle-relaxant... Muscle-relaxants are very good Opiate potentiators, they don't cause constipation, they don't fuck you up, and very often don't add much sedation to Opiates...
They just make the high more relaxing...

OCjunky
28-06-2006, 04:38
Try an OTC muscle-relaxant... Muscle-relaxants are very good Opiate potentiators, they don't cause constipation, they don't fuck you up, and very often don't add much sedation to Opiates...
They just make the high more relaxing...

What are some OTC muscle relaxers?

I dont think we have it in the US.