Keep E Illegal!!

E should and will be kept illegal. This is because
1) it IS a killer (hyper-thermia, excess water etc) Many people have died from PURE E, never mind the BS that passes for it...
And even tho its much less of a killer than alcohol/tobacco, the lawmakers understand these drugs... its only kids having fun...
2) drugs = evil in the majorities' opinion, esp things like heroin, coke etc, no amount of rationalisation will change this... its an emotional thing.
Imagine if there was a parliamentary candidate who had killed some people. You wouldn't vote for him, even if he was the greatest guy... its the same thing for E
3) drugs *are* harmful, just look at the e-tards (eg "i take 7 pills at a time , why doesnt it hit me as hard anymore???" read this in a posting recently) Some people are more susceptible than others to seriously lose the plot for long periods of time. They are risking damage, if not physical then spiritual. How wise is it to have the greatest time in your life every weekend for 2 years before you are 20??? Does that make you likely to be a well adjusted human???
I just think that the drugs are there and easy to get enough already, why publicize it.... surely it would be better to educate people who are already using it and explain the dangers of taking e every weekend etc...Maybe if people were a bit more responsible for themselves it would gwt better publicity!!
Face it, the public will never accept that people take drugs. Even maryjane is viewed with much suspicion due to the years of misinformation. The tide may well be turning but it will take a long time, if ever, befor harder drugs are even understood by the mainstream.
Most will not understand why we choose to take a pill instead of "get pissed, maaate!!"
anyway, just my $0.02, pleasenoflames!!! Sketch

Ummmm...........NO. This is because
1. Your missing the picture. Many people may have died off a pure E, but how many have died cause they had a Bad E? Hyper-thermia, excess water are not a factor if you have the right information. Illegality of E means not all people have the right information. Only kids having fun? Alcohol/tobbacoo is an anti-depressant (l think thats what u call it), it stops people from going out and about, thinking about life, about how to change. Do you beer is the working mans drink cause it tastes nice? No! Its cause its cheap and helps u get through life. Its not just kids drinking! Look at all the topics concerning change that have popped up on BL. They are due to the drugs man, because us ravers are outside of the Box. You ever wondered why at school u have boring repetitive work? Its cause once u get out u goto a boring repetitive job. Control man, its all about controlling minds. PR isn’t a big business for nothing. The US didn’t study Hitlers propaganda campaign cause it was bored.
2) drugs = evil? Propaganda? If you take a moment to research drugs and our History, you will notice that drugs have been shaping us and our society for thousands of years. Read up on ancient religions/traditions/civilizations and try to count all the references to shrooms u come across (too many). Even if you read stuff about the drug war, that isn’t written by the gov’t l mean, you will find that the drugwar has been going since long before christ even. Today it continues to go on, not only cause it helps control the population but also cause it makes money. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but when the gov’t looks at us, it looks at statistics. And they have models of what would happen if certain decisions were approved. Such as, what would public opinion be if we spent 2billion on a propaganda campaign against the drug war? See, the thing is. They wont put adds in the paper that say ‘this is a drug war attempt at propaganda.’ They will simply see that certain research gets funded, and others fail too and the many other backdoor deals no doubt. And then! One day two years later some ‘researcher’ cries out “Drugs are bad!” Like no way! At least they aren’t saying, “drugs are the work of satan burn all the heretics!!” anymore. Furthermore,
most of the designer drugs, and the really hard drugs, were not even on the market when the American DW begun. And because of the drug war, their sales have exploded cause they bring in the money. Legal drugs would mean no coke, heroine. Why? Cause people on those usually have social problems. They go down the chain of drugs to them in order to escape reality. What would u rather? Having those people given cheap and clean amounts each week to quench their need, or having them trapped in an eternal loop where only the Black market profits and their lives are put at risk every time they shootup or steal in order to get drug money. Oh, and before you answer think of the people who r injected by the dealer, without their consent, in order to get them on the payroll. For them to get treatment its usually a waiting period of around 6 months! LEGAL DRUGS would mean NO BLACK MARKET. Look mate, 70% of people in VIC jails are their cause of drug crime. That’s a lot of lives stuffed up and a huge burden on tax payers/police. I for one would prefer money made off drugs going to the research ect rather then the drug king pins.
3) drugs *are* harmful you say? Ok, lets just say that drugs r made legal, hypothetically. Well, suddenly the community is given access to cheap/clean drugs below street cost. What happens? Black market disappears. Not bad eh? Now lets say that scientists now carry out the research they wont to do but couldn’t before cause drugs were illegal. Oh, suddenly we know the best way to take them and what to take them with in order to minimize risk and damage. Not only that, but if you look at what happened when alcohol was legalised, overall drug use would go down. Hypothetically speaking there wouldn’t be as many E-tards. With a few simple tests, science could tell us how much each persons body could take, how many we should take per month to reduce damage and many other hints and tips. Oh where oh where have the E-Tards gone? Oh where oh where could they be? (sorry)
I agree with you on two points, 1. Theres misinformation. 2. Better understanding is the key. Both these things would improve if drugs were legalised! People would no longer see drugs as what povo’s do out in the streets and alleys. They will see it for what it is: a glimpse into the spiritual that has been occurring since man first stumbled over that funny looking herb growing amongst those rocks.
Don’t worry mate, no flame here, just expressing my opinion.
Tip: Next time u argue for the drug laws, don’t use problems that occur cause of the laws/misinformations as a reason why the laws should stay.
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We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem

Look this is my view of it. If legal we would
have a cleaner product none of thease speed bombs or all that other crap that is put in them u would know it was MDMA not these other things.
And all people could be educated about it not just us.
my mum would not know one thing about it only what thay tell u on tv and half of that is crap.
but that only what i think.
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"TO FAIL TO PREPARE IS TO PREPARE TO FAIL"

Also if e was legal, we could talk about it in a rational way, discuss the best context to use it, regard it and users without referring to morality and shame, and most importantly, we could do research on it, so we could all maximize our experiences.
All we have as references on a national basis are "just say no" from our government, and "drink more, get fucked up" from the marketing departments of booze companies.
Of course we're screwing ourselves over. I still have regular e users scoffing at the herbs and supplements i use.
Basically, once we can talk about it in a mature, responsible, intelligent climate, we can be so much better with it. Until then, it'll remain "pop more, feel better", except for those who search and know.

{sarcasm font}yes, lets keep it illegal, because as we all know, when we make things illegal they just completely dissapear and stop being a problem for anyone...{/sarcasm font}
even the anti-drug czars of america are openly admitting that prohibition doesn't work and that we need to look at alternatives.
i think i'll repeat that in bold just in case you missed it.
prohibition doesn't work so we need to look for alternatives
if it stays illegal then all of us have to go to jail. it will end up like america, where the bulk of their prison population is made up of people serving time for drugs offences. sadly most of these are for marijuana...
is this what you want?
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"i think i'll stick to drugs to get me thru the long, dark night of late-capitalism..."
Irvine Welsh

I think the issue is simple at the current point in time. All people have replied very intelligently, the main problem is this:
Envision a world where people consumed E the way that they consumed alcohol.
People are the problem. The way society, and culture thinks is impatient, self gratifing, and non-altruistic. This does not mean we don't things for others or our friends. But the media and people have been built in this society to be capitalistic and materialistic. As much as I hate admit it I too am a product of this, that why I know when I have a lot of drugs around me, I need to find the priorities in my life and put the idea of drugs and parties aside, and concentrate more on things like my family and exams at the moment, then after that I can relax and feel empowered by the fact that I was patient and have respect for MDMA. I wonder if many other people feel the same way?
Read some of the spiritual stuff by Huxley/Mckenna/Leary/Shulgin/Ghandi and other spiritual leaders, and I am sure you will find a note that they all touch on, and that is that the world is changing faster, perhaps too fast, maybe we should slow down and bit and take a look around and accept the things around us. Unfortunatly it is hard to accept drugs when a police officer searches you and you are carrying some, knowing you could go to Jail. The question is, do you deserve to go to jail in the society that you live in... Are we prepared to take that risk... I am...
PLUR

ok...in a way i agree with sketche...
first of all just think of ourselves after a big hard nite out...we can get pretty damn messy. now imagine if the better part of the population got like this on monday mornings around the world, including young kidds (13,14,15 etc).
as much as we love it and think it's safe we have to face an important reality: ECSTACT IS DANGEROUS. it's as simple as that. what i personally would like to see is some more research being done by the government to minimalise dangers of E. the way i see it legalisation would not be necessary for this.
that was just my opinion on E. i won't even talk about legalising acid or harder drugs. it's just stupid. all these things are illegal and they are illegal for a good reason: they are dangerous. people that want to experience despite the dangers will do so even if they are illegal. however if we make these same drugs available to all it would initially diminish the number of users, but in time, just like alcohol it would become a very big part of a very big number of people's lives.
legalising it would also prompt people to look for harder things (which would inevitably be illegal) simply because of the belief that there must be something better out there that is still safe and not yet approved by the government. this new drug people would turn to could be heroin or an entirely new chemical. then in 50 or a hundred years from now heroin would be legalised and then something else and then something else...if we keep E illegal at least we can keep the number of users low and slow down its increase...
i mean sure i want everyone to try this wonder drug, but ask yourselves: IS EVERYONE READY TO TAKE E? CAN EVERYONE TAKE IT'S EFFECTS/AFTEREFFECTS??? i don't think so.
princehamlet

I think the issue is simple at the current point in time. All people have replied very intelligently, the main problem is this:
Envision a world where people consumed E the way that they consumed alcohol.
People are the problem. The way society, and culture thinks is impatient, self gratifing, and non-altruistic. This does not mean we don't things for others or our friends. But the media and people have been built in this society to be capitalistic and materialistic. As much as I hate admit it I too am a product of this, that why I know when I have a lot of drugs around me, I need to find the priorities in my life and put the idea of drugs and parties aside, and concentrate more on things like my family and exams at the moment, then after that I can relax and feel empowered by the fact that I was patient and have respect for MDMA. I wonder if many other people feel the same way?
Read some of the spiritual stuff by Huxley/Mckenna/Leary/Shulgin/Ghandi and other spiritual leaders, and I am sure you will find a note that they all touch on, and that is that the world is changing faster, perhaps too fast, maybe we should slow down and bit and take a look around and accept the things around us. Unfortunatly it is hard to accept drugs when a police officer searches you and you are carrying some, knowing you could go to Jail. The question is, do you deserve to go to jail in the society that you live in... are we prepared to take that risk... I am...
PLUR

LEP/HAM: l can see where you get your ideas from but both of you are wrong. People are part physical, but also part spiritual being. Those spiritual leaders knew this, thats why their teachings all hit the same fundemental notes. Drugs can help us realise our spiritual side, just as well as meditation and similar practices, if not better. Before modern sociery, people used plant drugs such as salvia, mull, peyote, shrooms, and many others. They lives in harmony with their environment and with themselves. Its not to say that they didnt have wars ect, they did, but they didnt rape their environment like we do.
The problem isnt drugs, the problem is modern sociery. It used materialistic propaganda in order to stimulate its work force and maximize the economy. For some reason it believes that as long as the budget is in the black, everything will be ok. The way its set up, its not able to allow people to think for themselves, or re-prioritise their lives. A world with drugs will be a lot different then one without, that is why those in power want to keep drug use down to a minimum. But the fact is, things need to change, we are not be able to maintain current standards. Theres just too much polution going out into the environment and too many resources being wasted.
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We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem

k2436: i am not trying to promote or suggest a world without drugs...FAR BE IT FROM IT... i know i for one would have a very hard time doing without them all (not to say i am addicted in anyway but i do enjoy drugs a lot)...i am simply saying that maybe people who chose not to take drugs (because they are scared, disguisted, or think drugs are immoral) maybe couldn't mentally or physically handle drugs. i am only trying to say that they are not for everyone and by making them (drugs, but mainly ecstasy) legal the message of "ecstasy is for everyone" would definitely come accross. and i am of a strong opinion that ECSTASY IS NOT FOR EVERYONE...it is a powerful drug.
princehamlet

I just think we have to be realistic about the future.... if drugs were legal, would everyone get f*ked up all the time? would society break down? those in favour of legalisation of course will say no, of course not... but imagine if e was $2, wouldnt it be so easy just to get wasted all the time?? i just think that possibly decriminalisation might work, but legalisation would be dangerous. Also there is the issue of the number of people who wouldnt be able to handle it... the idea of *some* people on e is just scary. Imagine your dad or something??!!!

k2436: "Illegality of E means not all people have the right information."
^^^
Information aint legal my friend

Two quick points just from my perspective.
If you're going to say stuff like people have died from e alone never mind the adulterants in bad pills, quote authoritative references. That way the rest of us can read up on the sources that shaped your viewpoint and see where you're coming from.
Cigarettes and alcohol are legal. People smoke and drink all the time, even though it's bad for them. Smokers and drinkers seem to go on with their lives oblivious to other smokers and drinkers because the actual consumption becomes such a habit it is a non-issue for them. Ecstacy is illegal. People take pills all the time, even though it's bad for them. People taking ecstacy often give each other, even strangers, hugs and share a big secret grin that says "I feel wicked, and you look like you do too, isn't this GREAT?". I know the two classes of drugs are completely different in their effects and health implications, however it it just an observation I have made.
BigTrancer
[This message has been edited by BigTrancer (edited 18 June 2000).]

I think another problem with the legalisation of e is one which is not brought up much.
Most people think that this would lead to e being much safer and much cleaner etc - we would know what we were getting.
However, I dont think this is necessarily true. If was legal, then it would mean that every man and his dog could try to make e.
This could lead to exactly the same problem we have now, but possibly on a much larger scale.
Fair enough - with government regulations and stuff this may not happen, I just think it is worthy of thought. WHAT IF everyone could make e. WHAT IF misinformed people bought this potentially dangerous e?
The fact is, in the world of drugs there are too many unknowns, and THAT is what is dangerous.
Dont get me wrong here. I'm not saying that it should not be legalised etc - I hate the fact that every time I take a pill I have to be careful that I dont get busted and taken to jail! I just think that there are many factors we should consider when discussing these issues.

I don't think E would be as fun if it was legal......it's kind of fun knowing not everyone does it. Kind of like our own secret society.
I'm not ready to deal with a whole society of E takers if E were made legal.

k2 .....
If someone wants somthing they will acheive it. If you feel your calling is spiritual, you will find your way, if you don't care then it doesn't matter. The majority of the population have categorised their mind into a certain state. Drugs should be like a trip overseas. You have an agent that organises everything for you, you should also have a psychological examination regarding the reasons for exploration, and you should have your journey fairly well layed out. I still that too many people disrespect LSD, and they will get hurt in the process.
I just wanted to state that PEOPLE cannot handle, respect each other, how can they respect eye opening substances??? Some people don't want to learn, some do. It will take time, but one day a solution will manifest itself, and the word illegal/legal will no longer be in our vocabulary. That for the time being, is a VERY long way away.

SketchE has touched on a point that alot of us have not considered, and it's something that pro-marijuana groups have been heading towards - Decriminalisation. In a article I read last week in the Hearld Sun, the goverment is considering decriminalising marijuana to a certain extent. Setting an amount that would be considered personal use. Dope itself would still be illegal but those caught with an "persoanl amount" would not be charged and inflicted with a record for the rest of their lives. Being able to grow a plant for personal use would also lesen the black market and take alot of the criminal aspect away - I think this sounds sweet to the goverernment. There will also be people that will grow more and abuse the system, but I think it would be lestened. I surely would grow my own than visist a dealer.
So how can de-criminalisation help our cause. Well I think this is something we really should discuss. Aiming for legality ia aiming too high too soon. Legalising any drug is political suicide for any government, no matter what the arguments are. I think we need to discuss taking the criminal aspect out of possesing E for personal use (how much is personal use is another point to be discussed). Recognising that people using E are not criminals.
With the criminal aspect taken out of it, the government can concentrate on harm minimisation and education.
Am I just rambling on? Interested to hear your thoughts
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly

haste...'Tis not waste! You make a very, very good point. The difference b/w legalisation and decriminalisation is vast. Trying the big jump from illegal to legal is like trying to stop a huge boulder coming your way with only your hands to help! Way too much momentum!
A first step *should* be to decrim the drug, trying to fight society/gov't with a complete legalisation is a huge step.
Marijuana is decriminalised in the Netherlands, NOT legal though. Is this true?
Or is it legal?

The marajuana law in the Netherlands doesnt actually decriminalise it at all... it just allows the police to use discretion in handling users and dealers, which normally means they cant actively advertise... everyone cites this as a reason why "our country" (in my case NZ)should copy this example... but i think NZ/Aus society is very differnet to those in Europe, maybe we wouldnt be able to handle it?? ehh who knows.

I think the first step regarding this issue, is research into E.
Sure if E becomes legal, we will get more pure and clean drugs. But even pure MDMA has long term side-effects or does it?
It was mentioned above that we legalise E, and research the safest ways of taking it, and how much each person is suited to take. This is like researching safe ways to smoke and drink alcohol in a way. I am not sure all the general public will follow the guidelines, of possibly pre/post loading. As for how much a person is suited for? Who is going to enforce it? "Drink in moderation", just because someone says "you are only suited to take 2 E tablets every 2 weeks" people are going to care even less if it's a legal drug (What harm could there be?). Let's not make the same mistakes that were made with tobacco - A harmful drug, which was made legal, but people still smoke away, even with warnings about the dangers.
Legalising E - It will expose many more people to the drug. Which has it's positive and negative social implications.
Health reasons - Noone really knows exactly how E can effect people in long term, or even short term. Will our new E generation grow into an early-aging alzheimers suffering older generation ?
People complain about alcohol and tobacco being as (or more) dangerous than E. But neither of them effect the brain directly, the brain would have to be our most vital and complex organ. Sure our personalities are determined by lots of factors, but our brain being our central processing unit, making all our decisions for us would easily be our most precious asset.
Moderate use of E in most people has shown no real side effects in people's daily lives, and has proved to be fairly safe. But maybe damage that we don't notice is being done? Why not wait till you're 60 or 70 and had a good run till then, then start poppin' Es like there was no tommorow (if you really gotta be poppin') .. But maybe the long term effects are negligible, we are yet to find out.
I don't think it's worth discussing this topic though, as there are topics which need much more urgent attention. It's a tough battle for us E users, we have to really strive and find out what E is doing to us in the long term. (but I guess thats what all of us bluelighters are here for,, Safe drug use)
cya..
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