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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Keep E Illegal!!

Voodoo Chile: Good point. I think E and other drugs should be produced by government sanctioned laboratories, then sold to the public at a price below street price. It should be legal to purchase drugs made by the government, but not any other ones. That way the black market would disappear. Not only would the drug be cheap, legal, but most importantly clean. People wouldn’t buy off the black market simply because it would be better getting it legally.
Mr Klown: Information ain’t exactly encouraged. Due to the illegality of drugs, scientists are not allowed to research into drugs and their effects. So any information out there is pretty much guesswork. This allows for the anti-drug lobby to have a field day with misinformation.
Leprechaun: The majority of the population do have their minds catagorised, do you think this is their choice or is it forced upon them? The thing is, it is very much forced upon them and for a reason. Drugs would help them break away from it, and would end up changing society drastically, which would be a good thing.
We can all experience the spiritual side because we all have it within us to reach it. You cant plan out a spiritual journey like a trip over seas, simply because its a journey into the unknown. The other side. Mate, just wait till we try that salvia. You cant plan what will happen on it simply because it’ll take u beyond your perception of ‘real’. The reason most people do not try this stuff is fear, not because they are unable to handle it.
Hamlet: Your like totally wrong. Read up on how alcohol was illegal and what happened once it was legalised. Do you see a black market in alcohol today? Umm...not really because its easy access, black markets only develop when something is not easily accessed or the access is limited in a major way. One of the things they said against legalising alcohol was that everyone would be drunk 100% of the time. That didn’t happen. Life is going to be lived either way, sure, people still abuse alcohol but that is usually due to social/ psychological problems rather then the drug itself. Everyone can take E, before/after. It would be a lot easier if they had information on what could happen during E, and it would be even easier if the drugs were clean.
Concerning mull, l read a few years ago that mull was illegalised due to the pressure the tobacco/alcohol industry placed on the government. They basically funded the entire anti-mull movement. They did not want the competition to their business. I could try to locate the article if u want me to.
 
hmmm...u guys (ie k2 hehehe) write too much...i just can't keep up...will come up with an answer/response in the next few days...
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k2...Another reason why the heave-ho was given to mull was due to paper/cloth industry. Marijuana plants (the types with very low THC levels) have a very, very good fibre and pulp, have good natural insect/disease repellant and a high % plant-to-product (hemp, paper, etc) ratio which translates to high yields on produce and very good quality cloth (hemp cloth)...
George Washington was a marijuana grower! The plant was made illegal in the early 1900's - 1920's methinks...Feel free to correct any of the above, it's info I can (barely) remember from doco's, chats...Being a mull-lover doesn't help memory!! he he
 
heaps of posts here but none tacking the points i made... does that mean i'm right?
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someone said that making e legal would encourage anyone to make it for themselves. er its a lot more complicated to make MDMA than it is to make aspirin.
what do you do when you have a headache? do you go out to your backyard lab, which has cost you thousnds of dollars to build, and make some aspirin from a willowbark synthesis which takes a few days or do you go to the chemist and pay 4 bucks for some aspro clear...
of all the points listed above this is most ridiculous... sorry but i had to point it out
anyone want to take on my points about the legal system?
 
JB I agree with your original post - prohibition does not work - we have proof of this in the days of prohibition. The point I was making was wether we we're aiming too high too soon. Decriminilisation seemed to be more of an attainable goal. It would take away that criminal aspect so none of us users will end up in the slammer. I really think this is they way to go, but thats just me. Start with a small hurdle that leads to the eventual goal of E being a legal and goverment controlled substance. There is SO much research that needs to be done. We need to know it's short term and long term effects, both physically and metally. We also need to know it's effect socially. So the way I look at its there is a long road we must travel before it becomes legal. So until we reach this point we could at least lobby to have the criminal aspect taken out of it. We are no criminals and we should not be treated as such.
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[This message has been edited by haste (edited 19 June 2000).]
 
go back and read my post... not once did i support the idea of legalisation... i am just saying that closing one's mind to alternatives to prohibition, which the original poster in this thread has obviously done, will achieve nothing and no doubt make it worse...
we must explore alternatives. this means taking some chances. some alternatives might have some bad repercussions but this is a risk we have to take. the status quo, criminalisation, doesnt work.
i fully understand all the problems that may come out of decriminalisation/legalising. i'm sure it wont be a perfect system no matter what we come up with, but at least it might work better than the system we have now...
 
mmmm back to school for me...hehhehe..but seriously you're right, not matter what you do there will always be flaws in any system. Just throwing around ideas
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Raphsta: Like no way!!! You cant possibly compare the sale of ciggies to that of e's. Back in the old days ciggies were smoked cause of add campaigns that said they were safe n 'cool'. Today the largest sales of ciggie's is in areas such as china, where people still think that buying the most expensive deck's will minimise harm. Like not! If e was legal, along with an extensive campaign that informed the ppl of its pros/cons each person would make up their own mind. The only people that would go overboard would be dumb fucs who dont use their brains anyway! No one would smoke ciggie's if they could buy a pack filled with mull instead. Oh, and l think l heard somewhere that ciggies cause tar to gather in ur brain. could be wrong.
On the topic of socialistic change due to drug legalisation. Who cares??? Society is basically the same as it was 1000 of years ago. People up the top living off people down the bottom. Drugs would change that, but in a bad way for the people up the top.
It would allow the people down the bottom to see beyond their never ending hunt for cash.
Lets fact it, there have been societies in the past that included drug use and they were fine (until the christians came along and killed everyone). But for us, its more then just having less ppl die/thrown into jail cause of the drug war. Drugs would help everyone realise that theres more to life & the world should be looked after. l mean look at us! We disregard everything that is sacred in life in order to seek self gratification by grabbing that extra dollar.
Everyone is stuck in this constant mind loop, drugs would unhindge us from that, and there's no way the gov't would allow that to happen. l would even go so far as to say that an end to this materialistic society would come at about the same time as the lifting of the drug laws.
Sure, this might just me the pre-exam stress talking, but with/without druglaws/modern society l for one would still be tripping, listening to music, dancing and enjoying all the other perks of life.
plur.
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We must discover new frontiers... People have been standing for centuries before a worm-eaten door, making pinholes in it with increasing ease. The time has come to kick it down, for it is only on the other side that everything begins.
-Raoul Vaneigem
 
k2 : If E was made legal, of course many more people would be introduced to it. Easier to get, and "safer". There is a positive, but the negatives are unknown fully yet. All this talk of irrepairable brain damage, memory loss, etc.
If E is more easily accessable, and cheaper, of course MORE people will go overboard. I think its fine the way it is, the crazy people who drop 5 pills in a night can go ahead if they're silly enough to waste that much cash, but for the average person, spending $40 on one pill is more than what they can afford.
The government now will be incharge of legal E, sure we might have pure MDMA, but they may set restrictions of maybe 100mg MDMA.
aah, sorry, i just think the whole idea of legalising E is silly. So now through the government we will be told to only take E once every 2 weeks to minimise harm, people aren't going to listen. E will be more easily obtained, so we'll prolly see school kiddies dropping pills at school because there will now be a blackmarket of these E pills, STOLEN pills. Sure you can say there is no blackmarket for alcohol or tobacco (which there is , to a small degree) but Ecstacy tablets would be a whole other story. Comparing the legalisation of alcohol and tobacco to legalising E does not make any sense, we now those two other drugs are ssoo much different to E. Alcohol and tobacco aren't spiritual drugs,, We need to respect this powerful drug, and if it was made legal, we'd have people taking it just to keep them up and make them feel good, but Ecstacy is about alot more than just feeling good, it's the total eXperience. Keeping it illegal keeps it more exclusive, i don't want to see E become commercial.
blaaaaaahh...
;p
 
One thing I am kind of surprised about is the fact that legalisation/decriminalisation will lead to EVERYBODY having instant access to it. Bollocks. You make it the same as alcohol. Restrict it to over 18's and also keep the price fairly high. You can't buy a bottle of decent vodka for less than $30, so why should you be able to buy a pill for $2? Thats just crazy. If they sell pills (120mg) for $25 people will be discouraged to go overboard simply because thay can't afford to. Only die hard E-tards wo do that normally will bother paying $125 for a single night. In my experience (and I know a lot of pillers) most people balk at the idea of takign more than 2 pills anyway. And these pills are never 120mg of pure MDMA.
So I think that the idea of abuse, while real and will happen, is by far overestimated. Also remember that these pills could be sold as kits with 5htp post loads to help prevent neurological damage.
Thats my say,
Over and out,
DB
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Doesn't "expecting the unexpected" make the unexpected expected?
 
Just a few points
1. we will not understand the effects of e until it is legal as research on the drug is illegal due to the laws.
2. taking clean pills will not harm people as much as pills do today.
3. it would not be as easy to get as tobacco. You should be requiredto register urself to get it and to get access to health checks in relation to e. it would prolly also be illegal to sell ur pills to other people. but l dont think there would be limits to the amount of pills u can buy, as that would encourage the black market to grow.
4. kids can get pills today, l for one would rather them get clean pills then dirty pills.
5. death on e would be reduced to almost non-existance if the right support network/info was given to users.
cheers,
paul.
 
jb - I think you totally missed the point I was trying to make. Why wouldn't it encourage people who dont know how to make it to make it???
For one, people who dont know how to make it now still manufacture it - that is why we have so many bunk pills out there!
If we legalise the process, then these people and others like them would have the opportunity to try their hand at it so to speak. As k2 said, the only way to combat this is by making it illegal to produce e unless it is made by the government.
Why do we have pills with DXM, MDEA etc in them? Partly because there is people out there who dont know what they are doing. I'm sure there are a number of people out there, who given the opportunity would like to have a go. If it was legalised then what is stopping them??
You say this is the most stupid point, but in someways I think it is one of the most important. Shouldn't we consider all the possibilities when talking about peoples safety?? How can you compare the manufacture of e to the manufacture of panadol? Saying that people aren't going to manufacture panadol because they can buy it at a chemist is ridiculous. Of course they aren't, but what does this have to do with the manufature of e? People dont make e to sell it in a chemist for $3.00 for a box. They make it to sell to party goers etc for around the $30 mark. This price is not going to be drastically reduced just because it is legalised.
we have to really consider how people these days think. The greed of some people will by far outweigh the possibility that what they may be doing is endangering peoples lives.
Anyway, I have crapped on for long enough, but I just didn't think it was right that jb could bag something out so much when the point being made was to do with the safety of all the people on this board and off that use e.
 
Vodoo Chile - I think the point is that why would someone bother and go to the ernomous expense of setting up a lab to produce when it is already a legalised product. If dope was legalised and you could buy it along side smokes - would you go to your local dealer to buy it? Would it be worth while for the black market to grow crops and sell them illegally? Would you run the risk of buying illegally grown dope when you can get legally. The same goes for E. Legality would destroy the black market. Would you invest big dollars for a lab to produce something that is already produced legally? Would you personally run the risk of buying something illegally when you can get the same product legally? - and know that it has been produced safely and to regulations.
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 21 June 2000).]
 
the people who r putting DXM into pills know EXACTLY what they r doing.
The reason there is so much DXM and ketamine is that it can easily be diverted from legitimate sources if u know the right people. and it would be dirt cheap too.
in fact i think u can buy DXM powder legally
in some places. DXM and ketamine are far harder to synthesise than MDMA, its just that pharmacuetical companies have already done this for us, and the people making these pills aren't drug makers at all, just pill pressers.
Those making MDEA know exactly what they r doing too and in reality could make MDMA if they chose. MDEA was only pretty recently made illegal, relative to MDMA anyway, this may be another reason for its quite significant presence.
As for people actually making drugs, in australia its simple, we synthesise a lot of speed and meth coz the precursors r easily obtainable here. sadly the same cannot be said for that of the MDXX drugs.
 
Id be surprised if e is ever legalised as well, as much as it would be better for everyone (well except the traffic officers..) If a government was to legalise the drug, the whole line of drug laws would be affected and discriminated. Would it make sense that one person can sit at a table and snort a few lines of mdma powder legally. When another snorts cocain illegally, both people out to seek similar results (to gain an enhanced mood or state of mind etc)
I dont really care to see it legalised, Id just like to see it degraded to a class B or C drug.
 
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