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Ecstasy loses its risk-free allure

fruitfly

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Oct 28, 2003
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Ecstasy in barely 20 years, has become the drug of choice for a nation of clubbers and is taken by up to 700,000 people in Britain every week. It's seen as a no-risk, hangover-free designer drug for people who party hard at weekends but suffer no obvious comedown in the week. As supply has soared and demand increased among 15- to 24-year-olds, the price of the 'happy pill' has fallen to as little as £3.

However, research unveiled at a scientific conference yesterday links ecstasy to mental health problems that are prompting long-term users to give it up.

Three separate reports, published at the British Psychological Society's meeting this weekend, tell of a drug that restricts mental ability, causes long-term sleep disturbance and encourages psychological dependence.

The reports are likely to be seized on by those scientists who have insisted for years that ecstasy is harmful but who failed to win the PR war when it came to backing up their claims.

They were dealt a severe blow last September, when US scientists at Johns Hopkins University in Maryland retracted claims linking ecstasy use to brain damage, admitting that their research was flawed. The US team confessed they had mistakenly fed monkeys amphetamine rather than ecstasy.

Now the new research is likely to provoke calls for further investigation into the side-effects of a drug that was linked to the deaths of 72 people in the UK in 2002, the latest figures available.

'In America, users seem to be more aware that there are dangers with ecstasy. But in the UK, especially among 15- to 24-year-old users who take it quite a lot, there is a lack of awareness of what it may result in later,' said Lynn Taurah, a psychology researcher at London Metropolitan University.

Taurah was part of a team that studied the effects of a range of drugs on sleep patterns. About 1,000 people were divided into different groups - non-drug-takers; those who drank and smoked; users of a number of drugs; those who took just ecstasy; and former ecstasy users.

Participants filled in a questionnaire that produced a picture of their sleep patterns and came up with a score of one to 21: the higher the figure, the more disturbed the sleep. The control's score was four. Ecstasy users registered between 11 and 12, significantly higher than the other groups.

Former ecstasy users - some of whom hadn't touched the drug for seven years - registered 9.5, suggesting to the researchers that 'the effects of the drug on sleep are long-lasting'.

The links between sleep disturbance and ecstasy had not been documented before, so that the findings will provide counsellors with ammunition to warn users about the dangers of taking the drug.

'Many users have reported disrupted sleeping patterns from drugs such as cocaine, crack cocaine and amphetamine in particular, but we have no data clearly relating ecstasy use to sleeping disorders such as insomnia,' said Peter Martin, chief executive of the drug and alcohol treatment charity, Addaction. 'All new research data on this is welcome, of course, because we need to ensure we are responding with correct treatment,' Martin added.


The results appear to corroborate earlier studies of monkeys, which found that primates experienced chronic sleep disturbance when subjected to four days of consecutive ecstasy injections.

Taurah said she hoped the study's findings would act as a wake-up call. 'Sleep is a fundamental part of life. Its disturbance has an effect on concentration and has been shown to increase accidents on the road, in the home and at work. There are also clear links between sleep disturbance and depression,' Taurah said.

A separate study by researchers at Liverpool John Moores University tried to gauge the effects of ecstasy on mental ability. A group of users and another of non-users were asked to perform a range of tasks such as writing down all the four-letter words beginning with the letter C that they could think of in five minutes.

The scientists found that those who took ecstasy could recall an average of 10 words, while those who did not came up with 16. 'These differences are statistically significant,' said Dr Phillip Murphy, who presented the paper. 'In all tests, we found that users did not perform as well as non-users.'

Murphy also interviewed more than 300 ecstasy users to gauge whether their opinion of the drug had changed as they continued to use it. His research found that long-term users constantly weighed the pros and cons and that, after two years, its appeal started to wane.

Of the 328 people surveyed, only 20 who had been using the drug for seven years or more believed that the pluses outweighed the minuses. Nevertheless, the study found that, even after two years, the majority of users still felt sufficiently positive about the drug's effects to keep using it.

'It is likely that some users come to prefer the person they are, and the world they experience, under the influence of the drug. This may be seen as a form of psychological dependence, even though they are not physically addicted to it,' Murphy said.

Ecstasy: the facts

Scientific name: methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). Also known as 'E'

Cost of a pill in 1994: £20

Cost of a pill in 2004: £3-£5

Number of pills consumed each week in Britain according to the National Criminal Intelligence Service: between 500,000 and 2 million

Number of ecstasy-related deaths of people in the UK in 1996: 12

Number of ecstasy-related deaths of people in the UK in 2002: 72

Percentage of the UK population that took ecstasy in 1990: 1

Percentage of the UK population that took ecstasy in 2003: 2.2

Total number of tonnes of ecstasy produced a year: 120
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Ecstasy loses its risk-free allure
Research shows that clubbers' drug can lead to long-term dependence, reports Jamie Doward
Sunday April 18, 2004
The Observer (UK)

Link
 
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I don't buy the memory part. How do we know that these same ecstacy users don't use excessive amounts of alcohol or pot. Most people that take E probably use other substances as well. The sleep issue is interesting. It's good to finally see some information on the legitimate dangers of MDMA.
 
No shit it diturbs sleep it is a stimulant. The monkey was given 4 consecutive days of ecstasy injections. You think a monkey could sleep from that? I think it is more interesting that the # of users in England rose 1.2% but the price dropped 85%. That means ecstasy will never be stopped.
 
As usual the details are vague:

"7 year user" as defined in terms of what ? 10 pills per weekend, 20 , 30 ? Every month ? Or someone who rolls 3-4 times a year ? C'mon.

Reasearch-my-axx

:p
 
I think it's absolutely hilarious that the old study was done with plain amphetamine rather than E. The thing that I wonder is, did they do that on purpose? Anyone who's taken both Ecstasy and amphetamine before will tell you that amphetamine obviously causes more harm than E. Amphetamine causes mania, depression, distorted self image, and in some extreme cases can cause anorexia and bulimia. I'm sure they knew that before they "accidentally" gave monkeys amphetamines instead of E. Poor monkeys, they had to be jacked for four days and I bet all they could do was stay in those bastard cages. 8o
 
In the erroneous study, the did not give the monkeys amphetamine, they accidentally gave the monkeys METHamphetamine.
 
^^we all know meth is harmful, i dont think that's ever been in dispute. This is an interesting study on the X though...hopefully more will be performed in an attempt to replicate results and give a more difinitive answer
 
yeah but chances are unless people test every pill, they will consume a pill with at least some meth in it if they do it more than about 50 times in their lifetime... they might not even notice at first because it almost feels the same... but trust me... after a while you will get one with just a little too much meth and too little mdma and you wont sleep for a few days... blame it all on the economy and the wars going on for the meth in what is sold to you as mdma... less money in the country and drug task forces means lower quality drugs for people that do them =(
 
I'm sure the correlation between ecstasy use and self-reported sleep problems has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that most ecstasy users party all night and thus mess up their sleeping patterns.

And if you work out the ratio of pills consumed to ecstasy "related" (whatever that means) deaths, according to the stats in the article, it comes out to about 1,000,000 : 1. Thats a good measure of how safe ecstasy is, at least with regards to the risk of death.
 
It's incredibly hard to do any sort of drug research--even research with alcohol and nicotene isn't the easiest to get permission to do. Thus, researchers are forced to rely on self-report from drug users, as we see in this study. It greatly limits the ways in which we can interpret the results, because perhaps we DO find different results in the drug-using population than in the non-drug using one, but it could mean many things. First, we don't know if this population might differ in other unknown ways. Perhaps they would have scored lower on some things before ever beginning drug use. Perhaps (as was mentioned) they are using more than just that one drug, or have other patterns of living/sleeping/eating that are causing the actual life problems.

The initial article probably addresses these points. Most psych articles do, but that rarely gets into the articles that papers print about them....the research is sound, just the predictions would not have been stated in such absolute terms as is seen here. However, until governments become more lax about allowing people to study the actual effects of the drug in a more controlled environment, this is as close to anything as they are going to get.
 
Proper scientific research isn't going to curtail the use of ecstasy, even if it does find noticeable long term effects. Finding long term negative effects of smoking, ie. cancer, heart disease, death, yellow teeth, etc. hasn't stopped people smoking, nor will it. Likewise, even if they find ecstasy use has a concrete link to Alzheimer's in later life (worst case scenario IMO) there's still going to be people saying to themselves, "oh go on......one more can't hurt". People will always want ecstasy, it's not going to go away.
 
Re: Ecastasy loses its risk-free allure

fruitfly said:

The results appear to corroborate earlier studies of monkeys, which found that primates experienced chronic sleep disturbance when subjected to four days of consecutive ecstasy injections.

really??? WOW!! who would have thought you would suffer sleep disturbances if you were shooting up MDMA for a couple of days
 
You should factor in a strong possibility of over-reporting sleep disorders from the club crowd because insomnia actually has a certain hipness in the club/rave subculture.
 
It also looks like they might not be taking into account that a lot of people who use drugs, and particularly ecstasy, already have psychological disturbances (it's why they start using in the first place) and that those disturbances may be at the root of the sleeping problem, not the drugs.

I have horrible depression (thanks for the genes dad :)) and along with it ridiculous amounts of insomnia. For a while I did use a lot of drugs to help deal with my mental trauma, and I did experience a *slightly* larger amount of sleep disturbance, but I think that probably had more to do with the fact that my friends that I do drugs with stay up really late and sleep in really late - something my schedule unfortunately doesn't allow.

Once again i will say (as always) - CORRELATION DOES NOT PROVE CAUSATION!!! Anyone with any background in scientific research should know this. My guess is, like said before, that the news reports aren't accurately reflecting the levels of probability found in the actual study.
 
kittyinthedark: I was just about to type that exact same sentence! CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION Lets look at the claims:

Claim of Causation:
Three separate reports, published at the British Psychological Society's meeting this weekend, tell of a drug that restricts mental ability, causes long-term sleep disturbance and encourages psychological dependence.

Data demonstrating Correlation:
Participants filled in a questionnaire that produced a picture of their sleep patterns and came up with a score of one to 21: the higher the figure, the more disturbed the sleep. The control's score was four. Ecstasy users registered between 11 and 12, significantly higher than the other groups.
Former ecstasy users - some of whom hadn't touched the drug for seven years - registered 9.5, suggesting to the researchers that 'the effects of the drug on sleep are long-lasting'.

Well first we have no idea what those NUMBERs mean... Making an educated guess based on several psychology studies I've taken a part of, the scale works like this:
0 = This never happens to me
1 = This occasionally happens to me
2 = This usually happens to me
3 = This always happens to me
----------------
Followed by 7 questions such as:
I get less than 8 hours of sleep per night - 0 1 2 3
I take longer than 15 minutes to fall asleep - 0 1 2 3
I wake up in the middle of the night - 0 1 2 3
I go to sleep after midnight - 0 1 2 3
I do not wake up by 8am - 0 1 2 3
I experience sleep paralysis at night - 0 1 2 3
I experience restless legs while falling asleep - 0 1 2 3
--------------
Now the second reason this is bad science (the wording of this sentence by the reporter: "suggesting to the researchers that 'the effects of the drug on sleep are long-lasting'" has quotes implying that it is a citation of the article itself implying CAUSATION), is that they state the drug has effects on sleep, when it is equally possible that those who have sleep problems are more likely to use drugs! It is equally likely that they are both caused by an external factor. For example, people who like to stay up all night partying are more likely to have sleep problems AND use "ecstacy"... It is also possible that those who used to drink large quantities of alcohol regularly are the same people who now use large quantities of MDMA.

I have also seen many of these studies "pre-screening" for MDMA users who use large quantities. For example, I've seen newspaper ads which say "Research institution seeking MDMA users who have used in excess of 100 pills"... I always fear that these same studies which advertize this while recruiting do not disclose these facts when they publish their studies. After all, if you read Rick Straussman's DMT study book, he talks about how the NIDA will explictly cut funding of any study which does not help them further their goals of propogating information which deters drug use. In other words its FAKE science; Science where the conclusion is the first thing drawn, and the conditions modified until the conclusion is true. This type of manipulation even occurs due to the same study being ran several times, until the results match those which were wanted. Only the instance where the results were as predicted gets published, and the other studies get hidden. This is a very disturbing trend, but it does happen.

Please see http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/ to learn more about logical fallacies, to realise WHY articles like this are fallacious. This crap would not pass peer review if not for the fact that it is about the subject of DRUGS. I wish the general public were smart enough to realise when fallacies were being committed, but they are not... Hopefully at least all bluelighters can learn to identify when someone is using a fallacy to distort the truth into a fallacy favorable to them.
 
A lot of e users were night owls since day 1. If they hadn't been, they wouldn't have run into e. I've always been a shitty sleeper. As a result, I've known a lot of people who stay up a good chunk of every night, and a lot of these people indulge in pleasures that daywalkers might consider a bit shady. Becuase they can.

I used to work the night shift at an all night diner. Everybody there was into either drugs or kinky sex of some kind or gambling or wicca or drag racing or obsessively collecting things or net chatting or some other nerdy pursuit or some combination of the above. Anything you wanted to get into, somebody there could procure it for you. Straight laced good churchgoin' folk didn't tend to last long on the job.
 
kittyinthedark said:
Once again i will say (as always) - CORRELATION DOES NOT PROVE CAUSATION!!! Anyone with any background in scientific research should know this. My guess is, like said before, that the news reports aren't accurately reflecting the levels of probability found in the actual study.

Just so you know... you can go overboard with using that logical fallacy. Taken to its extreme I can use that on any scientific law.

Perhaps I could say that the laws of gravity determine that an object will accelerate at 9.8 m/s^2 towards the earth. You could say that when you drop an object, it will fall towards the earth. Doing lots of studies you could correlate the two occurrences. But what is the cause? Gravity. But what is gravity? We're not really sure how that works as of yet. Does it exchange particles, like all of our other 3 forces? Well, we haven't really seen those yet.

You could probably use the complex cause fallacy to take down the law of gravity if you really wanted.

Now of course no one would do that. :) But only because they would find no support for that thinking and Godel's Incompleteness Thereom is discussed more today in philosophy courses than in science or math classes.

Also... who mE?

when it is equally possible that those who have sleep problems are more likely to use drugs!

how is it "equally" possible exactly? possible maybe.... but since you rightly argue that even these researchers cannot nail down the possibility of e causing sleep problems, then how can you state that other factors are somehow equal in terms of the measured response?
 
nick44 said:
Just so you know... you can go overboard with using that logical fallacy. Taken to its extreme I can use that on any scientific law.


Causation is demonstrated by showing correlation in the absence of confounding variables. Which is to say, that drug users have more sleep problems doesn't show causation because there could easily be an underlying demographic difference that causes both drug use and sleep problems....but if you take a large sample of volunteers, randomly give half of them a drug, and then see what happens you can establish causation because you've started out with groups that were (more or less) identical.

There was a rather large longitudinal study that found that people who eventually used 'ecstasy' start out with considerably higher rates of mental illness than either people who never used drugs or used other drugs but not 'ecstasy'. It appears that MDMA just appeals more to screwed up people. :)
 
It's seen as a no-risk, hangover-free designer drug

There is no such thing, a drug like this does not exists. There is always calculated risk you take by taking any drug.

Moreoever, there is risk in anything you do, you could cross a street tomorrow and get hit by a bus!

:|
 
I have developed sleep & speech problems as a result of partying. Before I started I could sleep anytime, I haven't used anything in almost 2 years, and can not sleep through a night. I typically go 2 or 3 nights a week that I can't sleep more than 2 hours even if I am in bed for 8.

My speech problems have actually been getting better in the last couple months.

Granted I took many pills every weekend for a long time, but I never had trouble sleeping before I started. In fact I didn't have much trouble sleeping while I was using. It was after I stopped that I stopped being able to sleep. I have been prescribed Sonata, and Ambien, have self prescribed Xanax.

I can take a xanax bar at midnight and go to sleep. By 4a.m. I will be awake and unable to sleep. Ambien and sonata both work for about 2 hours for me. I am looking forward to the future release of Ambien CR.
 
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