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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Z-drugs vs. benzos (your Ambien vs. Benzo Thread is in this one now)

Anonabyss

Anonabyss

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
19
I'm looking for a short acting benzo, but Ambien would be fine also (alprazolam for example lasts too long); I'm just trying to figure out which is cheaper per dose. I have a lot of experience with many other benzos as well as Ambien, so I know very well they are basically the same high except for extraneous (and in my eyes irrelevant) hallucinating. I know they aren't identical, but they are close enough for the sake of this comparison, so please don't give me that "apples to oranges" BS.

To those of you who have done both of these chemicals, how many milligrams of Midazolam would you compare to 10mg of Zolpidem? Sedation and Anxiolysis are both relevant. Thanks in advance.
 
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ambien compared to benzos

so i ave severe insomnia ive taken clonazepam before but i was wondering sinc eim on ssri i switched docs and got off benzos this doc wont prescribe any eben tho ive be haveen calling him for days telling him i couldnt sleep he knows i still had problems sleeping even before taking zoloft im gonna call him again cuz i serioisly cant sleep i mean last night i got about 2 or 3 hours of sleep with some nightmares aswell idk what he is gonna prescribe me im gonna call him on mondya and have an appointment ont uesday i rlly enjoy benzos especially xanax it makes me feel really good except for the tiredness on the next day when i take it for sleep
when i took clonazepam i functioned perfectly i could sometimes take 2mg or 3mg and stay up all night and smoke a bowl while talking to some friends it was a lot of fun
so im afraid since ive only been to this doc once it sounde dlike he rlly hated to prescribe things.weird ik wher ei live we dont even need a script for zoloft u can just buy it like that and since i assume he hates benzos idk what im gonna get prescribed if i do..i already decided if he doesnt prescribe anything im switching back to the doc who originally gave me the clonazepam as well as ritalin now the new doc says i dont have ADD because he thinks that people that have ADHD are hyper since theyre kids so completely new diagnosis...such bullshit im currently pissed cuz ive heard about innatentive add however my mom dislikes the old doc and since she pays por it..idk iif an encephalogram could determine whether i have add or not..
anyways my ores iginal question is since i assume this doc hates benzos he is gonna prescribe something like ambien which ive never tried...is it possible to get a buzz of it.i mean when i was on benzos i didnt abuse them all the time just when i was extremely pissed or stressed..thanks and sorry for the long post
 
if u wont give u benzos he wont give u ambian they both GABA drygs & addictive. although he might. u can get high from amibian but i think they are less recreational than benzos.
He prob try to give u mirtazepine. an AD that is also sedative cuz it is an aintihistamine.
u can get good otc sedatives. I liked Phenergan (promethazeine)
u can get doxlyamine & diphenhydramine too..
 
According to equivalence charts 20mg of Zolpidem to equivalent to 5-8mg of midazolam so 10mg of zolpidem would be equivalent to 2.5-4mg of midazolam (oral).

Ambien is considered a "nonbenzodiazepine" hypnotic that potentiates gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), an inhibitory neurotransmitter, by binding to GABAA receptors at the same location as benzodiazepines. Ambien is also called a z-benzodiazepine but it is not a classical benzodiazepine. It effects GABA-A just like benzodiazepines but only has action on the alpha1 subunit, not all 4 (a1, a2, a3, a5). The a1 subunit is responsible for the sedative qualities. It doesn't have any of the anxiolytic, muscle relaxant or anti-convulsant properties, just hypnotic. But its structure is very close to a benzodiazepine.
 
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If he dislikes prescribing benzodiazepines he probably won't prescribe Ambien. It is very similar to benzodiazepines and also carries the addiction potential, although it isn't as severe as the classic benzodiazepines. He will probably give you a sedating antidepressant or possibly a small dose of an anti-psychotic (some doctors do that, especially the ones who hate benzos.) There are many other options to Ambien that aren't addicting and he'll probably take that route.

Ambien isn't recreational like ebnzodiazepines because it doesn't carry the anxiolytic and muscle relaxant properties that make you feel loose and less inhibited. It just carries the sedative (hypnotic) qualities which makes it only good for sleep. Its not good for during the day. But if you decide to stay awake on Ambien you can really trip out and hallucinate which can be fun. Too much and you can easily black out and forget what happened the night before, end up doing something stupid. You might feel really weird on it, like cracked out, thinking somebody is behind you and telling you to do things. Kind of like you've been up on meth for 7 days with no sleep. It isn't great to do with friends or around people.
 
thanks guys well im disliking the zoloft i got massive headaches and feel as if my ed taking it lfie was a movie since my mom also started taking it because she spoke to my doc i might get to convince her to switch doctors back to the one who prescribed clonazepam
and i wanna take wellbutrin because ive heard it keeps u motivated so i might suggest the new doc if im succesful and maybe i can get him to get me back to clonazepam or ambien i only hope cuz im suffering now literally nodding
 
Wellbutrin is stimulating, if you have problems sleeping I don't think it will help. And going on Ritalin would be a very bad idea if you have severe insomnia. It will most likely only make it worse so you'd need a benzodiazepine with it.
 
Zolpidem binds to the GABA-A benzodiazepine receptors, including α2 and α3. Neither benzodiazepines nor z-drugs bind to α4 and α6. The primary chemical CNS distinction between benzodiazepines and z-drugs is that benzodiazepines' primary mode of action is positive allosteric modulation of GABA-A, whereas z-drugs are only agonists. Like release and reuptake inhibition, PAM's are unique in their neuronal action from agonists.

It has been shown that z-drugs can be effective anxiolytics. They were considered to be only effective at behaviorally impairing doses. However, if one were to address the hallucinogenic profile that creates a psychotic delerium, they would probably find that this is a large part of the reason z-drugs become too impairing at practical doses to use while awake. If not for this impairment, z-drugs would have nothing more to stop them from being as anxiolytic as benzodiazepines, as it is the hallucinogenic to anxiolytic ratio in question, not the anxiolytic to hypnotic ratio.

In my experience and of others I know that have tried ambien, this explanation does seem to go well with the relative perception of the drug. Not worrying about the impairing (hallucinogenic) side of z-drugs allows you to take a dose that seems to be anxiolytic and sedating similarly to benzodiazepines. However, it simultaneously acts as a hallucinogen, making it seem impractical to use in most situations aside from recreation and sleep. This is obviously only circumstantial, but it isn't surprising that the science seems to back it up.

I have seen a few charts, however I find the numbers hard to believe from a recreational (ie. non-medical) point of view for many of the chemicals. I was simply wondering what subjective relation people perceive from their experience to see if there was a dissenting opinion that might better explain what one should expect from a recreational point of view.
 
I have insomnia too. Ambien works very well to help "reset my schedule" but you cannot rely on it 7 days a week because 1) its not "real" sleep, you dont feel actually rested and 2) the rebound insomnia will be crazy.

Honestly bro, do you want to sleep? You say you take your kpins at night and just stay up smoking weed anyway, not sleep. Perhaps I just read too deeply into this and you only do it on occasion, but the impression I got was that you just want these to get fucked up, not for insomnia. At least be straight with us man, we dont care:

Are the meds for actually helping you sleep, or do you just want them to get fucked up?

As I said idgaf either way I just wanna know. I truly suffer from insomnia and loved the fact that I found a med that helped me (when I had a doc that scripted it also). I was simply overjoyed with the idea that i could get some sleep.

Do you really suffer as badly as all insomniacs do, where sleep is up is something you would kill for?

If you want to go to sleep man (which any person who suffers from insomnia will tell you is basically the goal of their existence. here i am, ambien-less up at 5AM posting on bluelight for some random person) get put on the ambien. Wont tempt you to get fucked up (as much), and will actually HELP you get to bed way better in my opinion.

HOWEVER: I will say that after getting used to ambien, the effects can be VERY SIMILAR to a benzo. Very, very, very similar (for obvious reasons). The first few times you take ambien and get "messed up" its very trippy, almost dream like...

After getting used to it, however, it simply will mellow you out, much akin to xanax or klonopin. You will be "fucked up" similar to a benzo, but it will have the added bonus of keeping you knocked the fuck out for a solid 8 hours. Seriously, it is near impossible to wake up from an ambien induced "nap". You better not have anything to do for those next 8 hours man, b/c if you pass out too late on your ambien you will sleep through w/e you have to do in those 8 hours.

Also: I am NOT simply talking about tolerance here: I did not take ambien daily and build up huge tolerances, I am simply talking about "getting used to it". A bottle of 30 ambien would last me quite a few months, utilizing it as you should (resetting your schedule and for emergencys), so there was no real buildup of chemical tolerance.
 
Temazepam gets you fucked up and is pretty good for sleep. If you stay up on it, it feels like a better alcohol.
 
I wouldn't say a doctor that doesn't like prescribing benzos wouldn't prescribe a z-drug... The z-drugs were created to give the hypnotic effects of benzodiazepines without the intoxication typical of benzos which greatly interferes with the cycles of sleep (though there is still some interference from z-drugs). Z-drugs are also much less abusable for most people (there are people that enjoy it apparently, however), and doctors know this. They specifically call these drugs nonbenzodiazepines to highlight the difference.

You should really look into these drugs before jumping on them as there are definite benefits and drawbacks.
 
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K'd-OUT-in-AZ said:
If he dislikes prescribing benzodiazepines he probably won't prescribe Ambien. It is very similar to benzodiazepines and also carries the addiction potential, although it isn't as severe as the classic benzodiazepines. He will probably give you a sedating antidepressant or possibly a small dose of an anti-psychotic (some doctors do that, especially the ones who hate benzos.) There are many other options to Ambien that aren't addicting and he'll probably take that route.

Ambien isn't recreational like ebnzodiazepines because it doesn't carry the anxiolytic and muscle relaxant properties that make you feel loose and less inhibited. It just carries the sedative (hypnotic) qualities which makes it only good for sleep. Its not good for during the day. But if you decide to stay awake on Ambien you can really trip out and hallucinate which can be fun. Too much and you can easily black out and forget what happened the night before, end up doing something stupid. You might feel really weird on it, like cracked out, thinking somebody is behind you and telling you to do things. Kind of like you've been up on meth for 7 days with no sleep. It isn't great to do with friends or around people.
Click to expand...

Ambien is not less addictive than benzodiazepines because it has no muscle relaxant or anxiolytic properties. Barbiturates like secobarbital and pentobarbital didn't have ANY muscle relaxant properties and very moderate anxiolytic properties. The alpha1 subtype of the GABA(A) receptor modulates reinforcing behavior - which is why hypnotic benzos are typically more addictive than anxiolytic benzos. It's just that zolpidem's activity at the alpha1 subunit is weak - making it ineffective for moderate to severe insomnia and only good for mild insomnia.
 
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DooMMooD said:
I have insomnia too. Ambien works very well to help "reset my schedule" but you cannot rely on it 7 days a week because 1) its not "real" sleep, you dont feel actually rested and 2) the rebound insomnia will be crazy.

Honestly bro, do you want to sleep? You say you take your kpins at night and just stay up smoking weed anyway, not sleep. Perhaps I just read too deeply into this and you only do it on occasion, but the impression I got was that you just want these to get fucked up, not for insomnia. At least be straight with us man, we dont care:

Are the meds for actually helping you sleep, or do you just want them to get fucked up?

As I said idgaf either way I just wanna know. I truly suffer from insomnia and loved the fact that I found a med that helped me (when I had a doc that scripted it also). I was simply overjoyed with the idea that i could get some sleep.

Do you really suffer as badly as all insomniacs do, where sleep is up is something you would kill for?

If you want to go to sleep man (which any person who suffers from insomnia will tell you is basically the goal of their existence. here i am, ambien-less up at 5AM posting on bluelight for some random person) get put on the ambien. Wont tempt you to get fucked up (as much), and will actually HELP you get to bed way better in my opinion.

HOWEVER: I will say that after getting used to ambien, the effects can be VERY SIMILAR to a benzo. Very, very, very similar (for obvious reasons). The first few times you take ambien and get "messed up" its very trippy, almost dream like...

After getting used to it, however, it simply will mellow you out, much akin to xanax or klonopin. You will be "fucked up" similar to a benzo, but it will have the added bonus of keeping you knocked the fuck out for a solid 8 hours. Seriously, it is near impossible to wake up from an ambien induced "nap". You better not have anything to do for those next 8 hours man, b/c if you pass out too late on your ambien you will sleep through w/e you have to do in those 8 hours.

Also: I am NOT simply talking about tolerance here: I did not take ambien daily and build up huge tolerances, I am simply talking about "getting used to it". A bottle of 30 ambien would last me quite a few months, utilizing it as you should (resetting your schedule and for emergencys), so there was no real buildup of chemical tolerance.
Click to expand...


well i do like to get fucked up on them but i also have anxiety and insomnia issues quite severe most of the time so yeah i actually need them but havoo wee abused them most of the time i wasnt able to because my mom supervised the meds (she knows me too well)
also i have some friends who keep asking me for it(it gets rlly annoying) cuz they just wanna get fucked well mbien sounds less appealing to me especially if its only for mild insomnia since i might get scripted wellbutrin as well as ritalin for depression and add idk what might help to put me out in the night
 
kokaino said:
Ambien is not less addictive than benzodiazepines because it has no muscle relaxant or anxiolytic properties. Barbiturates like secobarbital and pentobarbital didn't have ANY muscle relaxant properties and very moderate anxiolytic properties. The alpha1 subtype of the GABA(A) receptor modulates reinforcing behavior - which is why hypnotic benzos are typically more addictive than anxiolytic benzos. It's just that zolpidem's activity at the alpha1 subunit is weak - making it ineffective for moderate to severe insomnia and only good for mild insomnia.
Click to expand...

sounds to me like it acts similar to valerian(in really high doses)
 
taking zolpidem or benzos long term will drive you into the most severe suicidal depression .
this is because sleep obtained by using hypnotics is only one stage . the loss of the levels that come with natural sleep will fuck your mind up.
i know trust me on that.
 
gaga11 said:
ambien
Click to expand...


I don't know much about valerian, but I don't think ambien acts in the same way as valerian.

It's not a totally weak hypnotic, but its effective for mild insomnia.

Valerian isn't effective for insomnia at all.
 
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