Working out on stimulants

M

Mycophile

Bluelighter
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Mar 3, 2014
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So, my doctor recently prescribed me Adderall which I'm not liking cause of the side effects, and I always prefferred low dose like 5mg Dex but I may give Vyvanse a shot over that.

Anyways, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and other martial arts and lift weights strictly for physical therapy but have been majorly slacking, but I am supposed to do those excerises like 9 times a week (5 a week for neck and 4 for legs)...and anyways:

My psychiatrist, overall I believe to be a good doctor, and is well known in the area for being a great surgeon, but I believe he gave me blatantly false info regarding Adderall and other Amps ability to raise blood pressure and heart rate.

I know they can, and yet, he told me they don't, and not to be concerned with it, even with drinking the large quantities of coffee I drink (I NEED to cut down, but I usually drink 6-7 cups a day).

So I said to him: "I'm thinking you might say not to do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or run fast on Adderall or stimulants, but that probably SLOW weight lifting with breaks between and light cardio could be safe right?"

And he's like "no, you can totally do any exercise you want on a medically prescribed dose of Adderall (he prescribed me 20 fucking mgs, but I FREAKED OUT on that dose and went to 5mgs where I still have side effects but don't freak out that much)....so yeah....he said I can do BJJ, run, box, whatever I want on Adderall and coffee and that really it has little to no effect on blood pressure or heart rate and I just think he's wrong there and that doing BJJ or boxing or fast strenuous exercise on Amphetamines is a way to risk a hypertensive crisis or even a stroke.

He told me "Crystal meth will make those things happen, but Adderall at prescribed doses won't, even with coffee, you'll probably experience performance enhancement, but not be in a dangerous situation in terms of blood pressure and heart rate."

I mean, I also know from experience that Adderall and Dexadrine REALLY increase body temperature and make me sweat a lot, just like too much coffee does.

So would you guys say he's wrong, and that I am smarter not taking Adderall or Dex or Vyvanse while doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, boxing, or any kind of faced paced cardio, but that I should be ok if I am slowly lifting weights?

And why do you think an otherwise good doctor can give such blatantly false info?

Thanks
 
Definitely don't think it's false info as it lines up with how I respond but it's going to be totally individual. I train almost daily with either adderall or vyvanse in my system. It will increase my heart rate a little bit but it's never increased my blood pressure even up to 100mg if adderall a day. Not that I'd recommend it but I've never had issues training on high doses like that either

Unless you are pretty unfit or have other underlying conditions, I don't see a reason to worry. When I used to swim, I'd have my heart rate up at 240 BPM for test sets for up to an hour at a time. Granted it wasn't amphetamine induced but if you're in good shape your body can deal with it.

If you start to feel sick or like you're having heart palpitations then that's when I'd cut back or stop. The active time on dex is so short though it would be pretty easy to work around it, easier than vyvanse at least.

So, in short, just listen to your body. Some people may have issues, some won't
 
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Swim15 said:
Definitely don't think it's false info as it lines up with how I respond but it's going to be totally individual. I train almost daily with either adderall or vyvanse in my system. It will increase my heart rate a little bit but it's never increased my blood pressure even up to 100mg if adderall a day. Not that I'd recommend it but I've never had issues training on high doses like that either

Unless you are pretty unfit or have other underlying conditions, I don't see a reason to worry. When I used to swim, I'd have my heart rate up at 240 BPM for test sets for up to an hour at a time. Granted it wasn't amphetamine induced but if you're in good shape your body can deal with it.

If you start to feel sick or like you're having heart palpitations then that's when I'd cut back or stop. The active time on dex is so short though it would be pretty easy to work around it, easier than vyvanse at least.

So, in short, just listen to your body. Some people may have issues, some won't
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Ok, well then I'll switch to a different question for now that I've been asking everyone:

I tried Adderall and didn't like it, and in the past I responded much better to 5mg Dexadrine cause I think the Levodexamphetamine in Adderall just effects me badly.

So I know my psychiatrist is open to giving me any of the drugs in this class, and I'm seeing him tomorrow and I'm having a hard time deciding which to ask for: 1) Vyvanse (which mg amount is something he'd help me figure out, but from what I've read and how sensitive I am to stims I think maybe 20mg might be right) or 2) trying the old Dex 5mg tabs I've used many times before and which I've liked.

The 5mg Dex tabs work for my purpose, but while I find Dex to have FAR fewer side effects than Adderall for me, what I keep hearing from people I know is that Vyvanse has even fewer than Dex or any of the others, that it's smoother and more gradual, and really that's what I want: the fewest possible side effects and the least amount of jitteriness or anxiety, so for that purpose, do you think Vyvanse is better than Dexadrine in your personal opinion??

Of course, there are other considerations, like I do like the fact that Dex lasts less time so you can just take more if you want more, whereas you HAVE to be on Vyvanse for the whole 10-12 hours, and I like that you can break Dex up into smaller pieces and you can't with Vyvanse, and I've heard some people say falling asleep after Vyvanse can be harder cause of how long it lasts, so that is a concern.

That being said, I think IF Vyvanse truly has fewer side effects than Dex and less anxiety/jitteriness, and IF I can be relatively sure that if I take it early enough I can still sleep within like 2-4 hours of it wearing off, then I would probably try the Vyvanse.

I mean whichever I choose, if I don't like it he can give me the other next month, but because of some stuff I want to get done this month in particular I'd like to make the right choice tomorrow.

Also, a very big thing for me is that I drink WAY too much coffee, and 1) One of the things I'm going to use Vyvanse or Dex for is to cut down on caffeine (I know, funny logic right? But I've used Dex to break my caffeine dependence before and it worked without ever getting dependent on Dex) 2) that also, because I am prone to drinking too much coffee, if I can't totally quit, I want whichever one I choose to be able to mesh better with it and give me fewer side effects while also on caffeine, and I know now that Adderall and caffeine do NOT mix well together for me, but Dex gives me more mileage with fewer side effects than Adderall, especially with caffeine in the mix.

So overall, which would you say would have fewer side effects, be better as a caffeine substitute, and also, be more likely to be more tolerable on caffeine, Vyvanse or Dexadrine?
 
Again, going to be totally personal.

I like vyvanse for very different reasons than I like adderall generally. It does have a much smoother release and when I first started taking it about two months ago, 30mg had me WIRED even though that only has a Dextroamph equivalent of 8-10mg. The first time I was prescribed about 4-5 years ago though I hated it and it made me irritable so I definitely think people and brain chemistry can change somewhat. I've since bumped to 50mg vyvanse once a day and going to ask for 2 a day when I go back to my doc because it's chilled out a lot after I adjusted the first week.

For me adderall XR lasts about 5 hours and vyvanse lasts about 7 so it's less flexible but not to terrible.

All of them are going to have a compounding effect with caffeine and other stims though (which is why I often pair with caffeine and/or nicotine haha) but sides and overall effects are going to be different for each person.

Conversely, I got basically nothing from methylphenidate.

Adderall is more of a feel good for me and increases social interaction (also sex drive) a lot whereas vyvanse doesn't quite as much but gives me a little more of a laser focus. None have bothered my BP or heart rate though.

You're *probably* less likely to have sides with vyvanse since the release is longer and the dexamph equivilant is pretty low mg for mg but still going to be individual. If sides are your primary concern though I don't think I'd be gung-ho on using any drugs in that class honestly
 
Swim15 said:
Again, going to be totally personal.

I like vyvanse for very different reasons than I like adderall generally. It does have a much smoother release and when I first started taking it about two months ago, 30mg had me WIRED even though that only has a Dextroamph equivalent of 8-10mg. The first time I was prescribed about 4-5 years ago though I hated it and it made me irritable so I definitely think people and brain chemistry can change somewhat. I've since bumped to 50mg vyvanse once a day and going to ask for 2 a day when I go back to my doc because it's chilled out a lot after I adjusted the first week.

For me adderall XR lasts about 5 hours and vyvanse lasts about 7 so it's less flexible but not to terrible.

All of them are going to have a compounding effect with caffeine and other stims though (which is why I often pair with caffeine and/or nicotine haha) but sides and overall effects are going to be different for each person.

Conversely, I got basically nothing from methylphenidate.

Adderall is more of a feel good for me and increases social interaction (also sex drive) a lot whereas vyvanse doesn't quite as much but gives me a little more of a laser focus. None have bothered my BP or heart rate though.

You're *probably* less likely to have sides with vyvanse since the release is longer and the dexamph equivilant is pretty low mg for mg but still going to be individual. If sides are your primary concern though I don't think I'd be gung-ho on using any drugs in that class honestly
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I have my reasons why I want either dex or Vyvanse, and if I don't drink much coffee with them I don't get the side effects.

So wait, you said Vyvanse only lasts 7 hours for you?

Cause that could be an issue as I might want 10-12 hours of stimulation, which would make me choose Dex cause I can redose.

I usually hear people say Vyvanse lasts 10-12 hours.
 
Mycophile said:
I have my reasons why I want either dex or Vyvanse, and if I don't drink much coffee with them I don't get the side effects.

So wait, you said Vyvanse only lasts 7 hours for you?

Cause that could be an issue as I might want 10-12 hours of stimulation, which would make me choose Dex cause I can redose.

I usually hear people say Vyvanse lasts 10-12 hours.
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Yeah 7ish hours but, again, everyone is different. I have a couple friends that are strung out for 24-30 hours on vyvanae or adderall XR but that's a select few. I've seen a lot of patients who can do with one vyvanse a day and probably almost as many that get prescribed two a day which is the boat I'd fall in. If I combine some caffeine/nicotine or especially l-tyrosine then I can selectively extend the duration a fair bit.

Really the only way to find out the best combo for you and your purposes is to try them.
 
No experience with pharma stims, but I used a lot of meth daily for years, and worked out pretty heavily while on them, I ran, boxed and lifted weights along with an extremely physically taxing job in a very busy tire shop. Never had any problems, that's not saying it can't happen.
 
Do you guys know if doctors are allowed (I'm in New York state so I don't know if that matters) to prescribe two similar scheduled substances at once?

Like my doctor is pretty open minded about prescribing stuff, so do you guys know if he would technically be allowed by law to prescribe me both Vyvanse and Dexadrine in the same month?

You might ask why I'd want that, but it would be because I want the option of short and long acting stimulants.

Would that be up to him, or do state laws prevent a doctor from prescribing two of the same class of scheduled medications in the same month?
 
Can always just ask him? I don't fair well with levo isomers either due to more physical stimulation from them (cold hands and feet, cramping, jitters, racing heart, etc).
 
The state that I'm in allows it and Im 99% sure every state *should* be the same in that regard but if I say something then it'll be happen to not be true lol. It shouldn't be an issue though. Insurance coverage is where the issue would be, if any
 
Swim15 said:
The state that I'm in allows it and Im 99% sure every state *should* be the same in that regard but if I say something then it'll be happen to not be true lol. It shouldn't be an issue though. Insurance coverage is where the issue would be, if any
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Well I just got him to prescribe me 20mgs of Vyvanse which I think might be better.

He said he's not allowed to prescribe two scheduled substances at the same time in NY though.
 
So you guys actually do think it would be safe for me to do BJJ or go to boxing classes while on Vyvanse?

You don't think that's dangerous?
 
Can't speak for anyone else but if you're a healthy adult with no pre existing conditions then yes I think it's safe. Hell I took 20mg of adderall pre workout yesterday and 20mg vyvanse only has a ~8mg dex equivilant. Didn't take it for the workout but it just ended up like that. Not that in and of itself it makes something safe but I've got many friends that are prescribed as well and will take them preworkout often

There is no one size fits all though so monitor yourself appropriately.
 
Swim15 said:
Can't speak for anyone else but if you're a healthy adult with no pre existing conditions then yes I think it's safe. Hell I took 20mg of adderall pre workout yesterday and 20mg vyvanse only has a ~8mg dex equivilant. Didn't take it for the workout but it just ended up like that. Not that in and of itself it makes something safe but I've got many friends that are prescribed as well and will take them preworkout often

There is no one size fits all though so monitor yourself appropriately.
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Ok.

And when you said 8mg Dex equivalent, that's what my Dr. and I were going for cause I told him I am sensitive to Dex/Adderall and that 5mg is my dosage for Dex/Adderall and since Vyvanse is SUPPOSED to last 10-12 hours (But both my doctor and my brother who took it said it really only lasts about 8 hours for most people) I said I wanted to feel like I was on about 5mgs of Dex for each hour that it lasts, so is that about what it will work out to, given that the drug isn't released all at once?

Also, how long do you feel that Vyvanse lasts for you?
 
It's going to be ~8mg dex equivilant over the duration of action but it's a different drug and just feels different all around.

Think I said it before but vyvanse lasts about 7ish hours for me, adderall XR is about 5-6 hours
 
Swim15 said:
It's going to be ~8mg dex equivilant over the duration of action but it's a different drug and just feels different all around.

Think I said it before but vyvanse lasts about 7ish hours for me, adderall XR is about 5-6 hours
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Yeah, my brother took it and said it lasted 8 hours for him and the doctor also said "you are lucky to get 8 hours".

Not sure why it is advertised as lasting 10-12 hours but I'll find out tomorrow.

Random question, (well, not random if you know the context), what do you think builds dependence and uncomfortable WD symptoms faster: high dose dexadrine/Adderall/Vyvanse use daily or high dose Caffeine intake daily??

Everyone would say I'm bizarre, but I have a STRONG Love/HATE relationship with caffeine, don't like drinking it, don't like being dependent, don't like what it does to me but simply can't moderate or cut down, but I've used low dose 5mg Dexadrine before to break my caffeine dependence (which for people like me can last 2 weeks), and still did NOT get dependent on Dexadrine in the process, and after about 10 days, had good energy levels without either, which was great.

I mean I drink like 6-8 1/2 cups a day of Coffee, and when I try to stop WD is CRIPPLING, even cut down.

So lets say the following:

take 2 people, neither drinks coffee or takes Dexadrine regularly (I'm using Dex here as the comparison because it's what I have the most experience with it and the dosage I always felt best on was 5mgs), and the guy who takes Dex doesn't drink coffee while taking it, and the guy who drinks the coffee doesn't take Dex while taking it:

So lets say, for 30 days straight, one guy drinks 8 1/2 cups a day, the other takes 15 mgs of Dexadrine, 3 times a day (every 4 hours)...so the dex dude is taking 15mgs of Dex spaced out over 12 hours, and the coffee dude is drinking 8.5 cups of coffee spaced out over 12 hours:

Then on day 31, both of them stop COLD TURKEY:

Who ends up having worse withdrawal and feeling worse and having it take more days to feel normal again: the dude who drank 8 1/2 cups of coffee a day for a month, or the dude who took spaced out intervals of 5mgs of Dex 3 times daily??

I think the coffee dude ends up having it WAY worse, with serious fatigue, blistering headaches, takes him a week to feel normal again, and the Dex dude doesn't feel too great for about 3-4 days, but not as bad.

I have never taken Dex that often, but I've done it with caffeine, so I'm interested to hear someone else's opinion, cause my overall opinion of high dose caffeine use is that it is insidious, and can mess people up (like me lol) more than many people think.
 
Again, it's going to be 100% individual. I'm sure there is probably some data somewhere that shows the addiction rate percentage in groups of people who have taken each substance for a given timeframe but would probably have to do some pretty good digging to find it.

Like for me, I don't have addiction issues to either and will drink probably more coffee than you per day and have never had any withdrawal symptoms from either adderall/amphetamines or caffeine. Most things don't tend to bother me though as I was also going through a can of dip a day about a month ago when I was taking organic chemistry and quit cold turkey with no issues. The only things that have ever given me problems are alcohol and benzos which were both pretty horrible.

Based on the MOA of each I would suspect that adderall/amph would have a much higher rate of addiction with more severe symptoms although it was very new to me that people even become addicted to adderall at all until I started reading stories online. I've known plenty of people that didn't do well with it for one reason or another but haven't met anyone in person that has had real addiction issues with it.
 
Remember to clarify between physical dependancy and addiction. An absence of withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean one isn't addicted and having withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean you're addicted
 
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