Work and money from a psychonauts view

[Kramer525]

Ive just gone through what your going through right now and the conclusion ive come to is work is nothing but a means to the end! Im working towards buying some land to build a small self sufficient community to escape from it all! I know this isnt escaping it because im still gonna have too pay rates but it wont be hard to come up with the money for that!!

If your serious about breaking away from it completely find somewhere in the middle of nowhere and setup camp! start growing your own food and build shelter that's all you really need isnt it?

 

[Changed]

To the OP: I know exactly how you feel.

I was in college, sort of floundering- trying to find my way. I took mushrooms for the first time and my perception of this world was shattered. While I came out of a dark depression that resulted from utter aimlessness, I came into another startling realization: the structure of society is pointless. Money and possessions are totally empty. Buying things does not result in happiness; in fact, it results in depression and loneliness.

Through this realization I came to Buddhism. It took me a couple years to realize that while cultural constructs (money, possessions, relationships, the ego) are indeed fruitless, you are ultimately the creator of your own reality. Don't want to work? there are ways around it, but they aren't glamorous.

I graduated college in 4.5 years with a worthless degree. I am now 23 years old, and I haven't had a real job since graduating- and it is totally fine! I do what I have to to pay rent, food, etc... I am living with two friends from college, working maybe twice a week at a simple job just to cover the bills. On my free time I read, write poetry, ride my bike around the city with friends, go out and socialize with like-minded people, and sit around the kitchen and philosophize.

Most people will tell you that you have to have a goal, a long-term plan, a career path... "What are you going to do with your life?" fuck that- you live your life now.

The only thing we have is the present moment.

Working is a necessary evil. I've spent many a night thinking of a better system- abolish currency, live in a lawless anarchist state, revert to the caveman lifestyle... those are all dreams. We live in an age where the state, the culture, the group mentality far outweighs the interests of the individual. You cannot beat the system, but you can take a few steps back from it.

Do your own thing. Make ends meet and live in the moment. Be spontaneous. You only have one life- don't let it slip by while you devise an illusory utopia.

 

[PepperSocks]

Anyways, back to the original question: I think that work is one of the most fundamental aspects of being a human. To be a healthy, decently happy individual you need to work hard most days of the week. I can't stand the feeling after a long weekend off, having not worked at all for a while-- I feel so lazy and worthless.

My thoughts exactly. Getting out and just doing things to help people or do what has to be done feels so good. It means actually contributing something to the world instead of just being a lazy sponge. It feels so good in body and mind to do things; I'm really starting to find that out. Sitting around doing nothing makes me feel so vacuous and worthless.

Working is a necessary evil. I've spent many a night thinking of a better system- abolish currency, live in a lawless anarchist state, revert to the caveman lifestyle... those are all dreams.

Working is a necessity but it's certainly not evil. Even if you live in a caveman lifestyle there's still LOTS of work to be done. Gather food, gather wood, fight off predators; of all kinds (yes, it has to be done to survive).

Working to amass a huge amount of currency is somewhat evil I can agree with, but working to keep your head afloat, comfortable, and helping others while doing it is not evil.

Think of work around the house or property that has to be done. Out in country there a lot more of it to be done but even in the city there's work to be done on the property. Cleaning the house, cutting the grass, cutting and gathering wood, planting and maintaining a garden; they're all things that have to be done and it feels good doing it. It's all your state of mind.

The lazy, vacuous me hated having to gather wood or clean the house, absolutely hated it. I would have rather just stayed inside watching TV or screwing around on the computer. When you get that internal drive to get up and do stuff it feels so good to be active. This feeling of good transfers over into "career/job" work. It feels good to be proactive and do stuff.

Doing is living, living is doing.

 

[swilow]

What makes it pointless? If you look at the grand scheme of things, the fact our lives are blips, a speck of dust on a speck of dust on a speck of dust on a speck of dust, into infinity, anything we do is pointless.

But the fact that we experience anything at all in that brief clip of time is amazing. To love is the point, to enjoy and to love. You say you love programming. I say, then, that programming is not pointless. Far from it... programming is one of the things that makes your life have a point at all.

Utterly brilliant post XoRky...Nail is hit on head

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

Rather than looking at money as something that is fundamental to the existence of the shallow and materialistic society around you, you should look at it as tool that allows you to achieve your aims in life. And by achieving those aims, hopefully you'll make society a little less shallow and materialistic.

The capitalist system is here to stay, at least until the next era begins (I consider the late 70 the end of the "ideologies" era, and the beginning of the globalized markets era). The is particularly true if you live in the US.

Maybe it's just because I am from another country and I guess I've come here primarily for financial reasons (easier to get a better job/higher pay/more products services), but I find the notion of living an altruistic/hippie lifestyle (I use that term very liberally) in the USA just ridiculous. USA is the capital of materialism, shallow behaviour and the McDonaldization of every aspect of life. And in a twisted kind of way, that's not so bad if you look at it from the point of view of a person in another country who is hardworking but has no opportunities due to the society around him.

I don't really think you'll be able to escape the BS you seem to be seeking relief from. Maybe you should consider joining some sort of international organization and go live in another country for a few years. I mean it can hardly be worse than the dull predictability of America's "iPhone defines who I am" attitude. You'll meet a lot of cool people and see thing that will probably change your worldview forever.

Just some thoughts, I am probably closer to where you are right now than my post would make it seem. I am studying Economics (doesn't get any more shallow than that) and I am finding it so damn hard to care about what I supposed to be learning. And I in my senior year. The environment around doesn't help either.

 

[kong]

I look at work as something I must do if I expect to maintain a healthy, self sufficient lifestyle. If one consumes they should also produce.

Its funny, with few exceptions everyone I've met that thinks work is bullshit and beneath them also consumes at the same rate as everyone else. Everything they consume comes from people working.

 

[jiffilube]

Thank you everyone for your insight. I know I come off as being very cynical, but thing of it as me being very hard in my beliefs until they are changed

Everyone's posts definitely helped me to get a different view on things, so heres what I got;

In the ultimate view of things a career is pointless, but then again in the ultimate view everything is pointless. However, things can have a great point personally, even if they may be meaningless; it really doesn't matter.
Money is "evil" not because its money but because of how its used. If I use it for what I see is right then for my purposes its right, even if most of the time its used for what I see is the wrong reason.

Even if I think a career is pointless, I can get a career in something I like to make it less so personally. It is somewhat a necessary evil to get the necessary evil that is money, however a career or money are only evils if used wrongfully.

Even though the world is made up of all this capitalist technological goal-in-life-seeking, I can see through it in the fact that I know how it really should be, and live my life that way as much as possible while still integrating into society as much as I need to to survive.

 

[invert]

Thank you everyone for your insight. I know I come off as being very cynical, but thing of it as me being very hard in my beliefs until they are changed

Everyone's posts definitely helped me to get a different view on things, so heres what I got;

In the ultimate view of things a career is pointless, but then again in the ultimate view everything is pointless. However, things can have a great point personally, even if they may be meaningless; it really doesn't matter.
Money is "evil" not because its money but because of how its used. If I use it for what I see is right then for my purposes its right, even if most of the time its used for what I see is the wrong reason.

Even if I think a career is pointless, I can get a career in something I like to make it less so personally. It is somewhat a necessary evil to get the necessary evil that is money, however a career or money are only evils if used wrongfully.

Even though the world is made up of all this capitalist technological goal-in-life-seeking, I can see through it in the fact that I know how it really should be, and live my life that way as much as possible while still integrating into society as much as I need to to survive.

An excellent summary. Have you thought of a career in summarizing?

 

[jiffilube]

An excellent summary. Have you thought of a career in summarizing?

Haha I don't know how far that'd get me..

I don't know actually.. I wan to be a music producer or a DJ, but thats more of a dream... I wanna do something maybe in robotics to be more contemporary, or perhaps something that involves flying research planes over the ocean...

 

[NW-baltiland]

Minimum wage has got my adrenaline caged... QUOTE]

Full of venom and rage, specially when I'm engaged, and my daughter's down to her last diaper, it's got my ass hyper, I pray that god answers, maybe I'll ask nicer.

Figured I'd finish your eninem quote for you. I hate eminem now, he's a sellout.

 

[ATLien88]

Hey man, I think of it all the same way.

I used to work at Mcdonalds and it fucking sucked dick, my parents would not let me quit and i worked there for almost two years before getting myself fired(skipped shifts, left early, etc.) so i finally didn't have to work there. After looking for another job for around a year i finally found a job at an Italian restaurant in my city, as a dish washer.

After working there for a while, and let me say it is an intense job because its the busiest restaurant in my city, I actually started to kind of enjoy working there. I like my co-workers and my boss likes me so its WAY better than mcdonalds, and last night i had to work in the salad/pizza station because buddy didn't show up for his shift. Because of this next week i start on salads and that could be the start of a career, like it should have took me twice as long to get promoted, it took this one kid nine months to get promoted and he was pro as fuck in the dish pit. It took me four months.

Anyways, I think you just gotta find out what you wanna do and work on that.

And I too hate the way money is viewed by and runs peoples lives, shitty world right now, man.

LOL @ "Pro as fuck in the dishpit". I'm just giving you a hard time man, working in a restaurant ain't bad at all. I used to serve tables and it was one of my favorite jobs. I just thought the way you described his dishpit skills was kind of funny.

 

[Xorkoth]

But what's the point of helping people? Sorry, I agree with you essentially, and I think most people do basically want to help people, so for most people that would be a point in itself without further need for justification. But there's nothing inherently worthwhile about helping people: it's still just people ascribing meaning and worth to things, whether it's 'helping people' that you're ascribing worth to, or if your ascribing worth directly to 'programming' in and of itself. Pure research with no possible applications to help people (if such a thing exists) can still be a point, a worthwhile pursuit in itself, simply because someone ascribes meaning to it and makes it their pursuit.

I have to disagree with you here. I think helping people, if you help them to have a more positive experience here in this life, is about the least pointless thing there is, according to my previous definition of pointless. If everything we do and accomplish is pointless due to the infinitely tiny speck we are in the universe, then the only thing that DOES matter is our experience during that speck of time. To help someone have a better experience is a noble action that helps add value to their life as well as your own. What could be less pointless than that?

Thank you everyone for your insight. I know I come off as being very cynical, but thing of it as me being very hard in my beliefs until they are changed

You're welcome. And that's a good quality to have... the ability to hold tight to your convictions in the face of opposition. As long as you are able to be flexible when appropriate.

Money is "evil" not because its money but because of how its used. If I use it for what I see is right then for my purposes its right, even if most of the time its used for what I see is the wrong reason.

I would clarify this by saying that money itself is just a tool... it can be neither good nor evil. How it is used determines whether it is "good" or "evil". Like is always the case, when it comes to human-based concepts, human behavior determines morality. To ascribe it to an inanimate object circumvents personal responsibility for making moral choices.

 

[invert]

I have to disagree with you here. I think helping people, if you help them to have a more positive experience here in this life, is about the least pointless thing there is, according to my previous definition of pointless. If everything we do and accomplish is pointless due to the infinitely tiny speck we are in the universe, then the only thing that DOES matter is our experience during that speck of time. To help someone have a better experience is a noble action that helps add value to their life as well as your own. What could be less pointless than that?

Oh, I personally agree with you. I was just rather pedantically suggesting that even this is not objectively pointful. It's just something that most (maybe all) people would subjectively agree as being pointful. Why is adding value to other people's life pointful? Only because it matters to you (and to me, and to most people), not because there is some objective meaning and value in it.

 

[Xorkoth]

Ah, gotcha.

 

[adrian89987]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/oct/28/live-without-money

An article bout a guy who gave up using money..

 

[Damien]

I don't need any of the terrible things modern society considers "comforts,"

You should start by getting rid of that terrible computer you're typing on

...but once im out of high school im going to do my best to get away from all of it..

Hey, I'm not that old and probably not that wise but one thing I do know is that you're going to be in for some big surprises.

 

[jiffilube]

I said i dont need them, I know I could live fine without a lot, but many people say they literally couldn't live without their computer, or cellphone, or what have you...

And surprises such as what?

 

[Delsyd]

And surprises such as what?

Alot of people change, sometimes drastically between the time they leave high school till...
well i dont know till when. Im 24 and still feel changes in my views and personality

Basically he was saying there is still alot of growing up to do and your views may change.

 

[FractalDancer]

For me I couldn't imagine a job that didn't help people in some way. I feel that I want to work as I can't stand just sitting around all the time and I like to use my brain and find out more about the human body, brain and psyche. The money earned will go towards having fun with my partner and living in a way that makes me happy. Couldn't imagine being a banker or something like that.. it would feel like I was working on something unhelpful, a bit wrong and that didn't really exist!

 

[Delsyd]

im a psychonaut.
i work a boring monotonous job 5 days a week so that i can continue to live the (semi)comfortable life style ive gotten used to. So i can afford my psychedelics and have money to do fun things like go to concerts and go out with my gf.

i wish my job wasnt boring. Or that i can have a job where i can help people, but i am comfortable with the position i am in now.