Will my brother ever be normal again?

[SaganCarl]

My brother has been abusing Synthetic Cannabis (spice) daily for a little for 2 years. He would smoke pretty much all day. About 3 weeks ago he stopped sleeping and started acting incoherently. He got himself involved in some bullshit Thelema Magick so now he thinks he is some sort of god.

All this started when my brother got arrested for a drug possession (he was selling.) After a while he began to smoke spice after his probation forbade him to smoke normal marijuana. My brother has done self harm before when he was younger so during an appointment with his probation officer they noticed he had old scars on his arms from his self harm. They gave him an appointment to see a psychiatrist and soon enough he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and was given medication. Whether this was brought on by spice or spice exacerbated this disorder I dont know.

months go by and he refused to quit smoking spice and refused to take his meds. He would go through bags and bags of this shit without even taking a break and it was like that for months. We pleaded with him to stop and he always said that he could control it and he could stop anytime he wanted. My parents were VERY naive at what he was putting in his body. they knew it was bad but they didn't know it was fucking him up immeasurably. He would get money from my parents for the spice and when they finally caught on that he was hopelessly addicted and took away the money, he began to sell his belongings.

So 3 weeks ago my mother told me that he hasn't slept at all for a few days and my sister told me that he would pace around the house at night talking to himself (I dont live with them.) To add to all the bullshit he began reading Aleister Crowley's books on Magick bullshit and occultism. The breaking point happened when he took my mom's car keys and he took off. he was arrested a few minutes later because he ran a stop sign and hit another vehicle. We told his probation officer and his psychiatrist of all his actions prior to him getting arrested (calling himself the illuminated, messiah, giving "offerings" to spirits creating his own religion.)

Soon after his psychiatrist took him out of jail and placed him in a hospital where he detoxed from spice (he was there for 5 days total.) They gave him lithium along with an anti-psychotic and was released. I dont believe he is taking his meds because he still talks irrational thoughts. like he is the messiah and he is sacrificing himself in order for everyone to go to heaven. And spirits enter his body. Irrational things. How long does it take for these meds to take effect? Another thing. He seems normal and all of a sudden he changes into this all knowing guy that he calls '678.' around authority the acts completely normal or atleast subdued (which i don't get.) Is this all and act of his or is it is bipolar disorder acting up?

I'm just really worried about him because the meds don't seem to be working (maybe he is throwing them away?)
if someone can give me some insight as to how long it may take for meds to take effect? We are seriously considering taking him back to the Hospital again.

 

[My3sons]

Sounds more like schizophrenia to me but I am not a Dr. Also you can't turn it on and off depending on who is around you. Maybe it's partly an act if he does that.

 

[amzam]

If he's on the right meds, is a matter of trial and error. Some people luck out and get meds that work and are tolerable with their very first visit. Some people can take years.

If he is not taking his meds he might need a more controlled therapeutic environment like a group home or residential treatment.

How much your brother is going to be able to get back to normal, and how soon is something that's not really predictable. There's reason for hope since he has resources and people in place to help. There's also reason for concern. Be ready to inform psychiatrist and/or probation officer about problems. Earlier interventions when people are in deep trouble tend to have better outcomes.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Sounds more like schizophrenia to me but I am not a Dr. Also you can't turn it on and off depending on who is around you. Maybe it's partly an act if he does that.

Seconded. A friend of mine's brother, when he had his first schizo episode, took over the function room of a local hotel, built himself some sort of throne out of all the chairs in there and declared himself to be the almighty. It took a great number of policemen to remove him, was quite a sight!

After that his schizophrenia got much, much more paranoid in nature. The good news is that after a few years of tweaking his meds, he's back to his good old self.

I'd take your brother back to the experts if I were you. Cannabinoids are well known for activating underlying psychotic conditions in those prone to them.

Edit to add - I think Moreaux has the best advice below. I'm certainly no doctor, just relating what you describe to my own experiences. Could be any number of psychiatric conditions probably, get your poor bro back to the docs and get them to test everything again.

 

[Moreaux]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of bipolar just yet as I have know of bipolar individuals that act schizo in the manic phase. If your brother has self harmed in the past, that is a big red flag that he had been having issues for a while. I agree with others, if the meds aren't working he needs to go back to his psychiatrist. If you're concerned he is not taking them then a family memeber should administer them to him, and verify he does take them - watch him, check his mouth make sure he's not tounging or cheeking them. Good luck!

 

[SaganCarl]

Thanks so much for the feedback guys. I really appreciate it. I had the chance to talk to his officer today and hopefully a court ordered inpatient program will be available to him. Oh and by the way, the medicine he is taking is called Zyprexa.

 

[deos68]

Thanks so much for the feedback guys. I really appreciate it. I had the chance to talk to his officer today and hopefully a court ordered inpatient program will be available to him. Oh and by the way, the medicine he is taking is called Zyprexa.

it would better to get him into a inpatient program as they will monitor and try diff med combos until something works
hard to tell if its an act or not also the spice may or may not be the culprit.. its anybodies guess since its lab made somewhere and constantly being reformulated to stay within legal law

hope it works out and you all can get him the help he needs...stay positive

 

[MikeOekiM]

Sounds more like schizophrenia to me but I am not a Dr. Also you can't turn it on and off depending on who is around you. Maybe it's partly an act if he does that.

i dont think it's an act. my sister had a similar experience and her paranoia would come and go. one hour she was perfectly fine and the next something would just trigger her into this episode. it took months for her to go back to her normal self.

at one point i thought she was changed for good, but luckily she's much better now.

 

[SaganCarl]

My mother told me that yesterday my brother had an episode where he grabbed my mom by the head and was telling her to look at him in the eyes and started screaming at her that he isn't Daniel anymore and referred to himself as 678 again. But as soon as my father came home from work its as if his episodes and actions are alot more subdued.

Also, he had an appointment with his officer that same day and my mom obviously told him what my brother had done so the officer clearly told him that he is giving one last chance to take his meds and get his act together if not they will put him in a group home for a minimum of 9 months.
I really am beginning to think that as Moreaux Said, he could be displaying schizo-like symptoms during his manic phases.
I really appreciate the Input guys it makes me feel tons better.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

My mother told me that yesterday my brother had an episode where he grabbed my mom by the head and was telling her to look at him in the eyes and started screaming at her that he isn't Daniel anymore and referred to himself as 678 again. But as soon as my father came home from work its as if his episodes and actions are alot more subdued.

Also, he had an appointment with his officer that same day and my mom obviously told him what my brother had done so the officer clearly told him that he is giving one last chance to take his meds and get his act together if not they will put him in a group home for a minimum of 9 months.
I really am beginning to think that as Moreaux Said, he could be displaying schizo-like symptoms during his manic phases.
I really appreciate the Input guys it makes me feel tons better.

So sorry to read you all having to go through this. Is he still smoking the synth-weed? If so, that needs to be gotten rid of PRONTO.

To inject a bit of positivity, if Moreaux's hunch is right and he's bi-polar, medicine and therapy can and will control it.

Even if my hunch is right and it's paranoid schizophrenia, medicine and therapy can and will control it. My friends brother who has it and took over a hotel when he was the messiah is now fine and completely back to normal. As horrible as this must be, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Moreaux]

I've been pondering this thread for a while trying to figure out what to say.

I agree with everyone else, he needs to stop the synthetic cannabis. This will induce psychosis and will absolutely mimic schizophrenia. I smoked it for a while during benzo withdrawal back in 2010 because I thought it was legal pot - it's not. These chems are not safe, and it's a crapshoot on what you're really getting. I have heard other users on this site say it's closer to meth than it is weed, and from my experience I would agree.

When I smoked it I lost so much weight, I struggled to stay at 100lbs. I was also clinically insane when I was high - I frequently hallucinated sounds, etc and had very few emotions. It was scary and I could not process reality, which is why I quit lol.

When you're brother was originally diagnosed was he actively smoking the synth cannabis? If yes, then I would be willing to wager that diagnosis may not be correct, and while your brother is actively smoking getting a legitimate diagnosis will be difficult. The medication he is prescribed should help with the hallucinations, but if he is taking it and smoking it may render the meds useless. I think the biggest priority is to get him off of the chems.

Apparently that may be difficult, as some users have reported them being very addictive. I have read many accounts people struggling to stop. You may want to try to get him into a rehab facility where he can't smoke that stuff any longer plus he will be under proper medical care and the staff doctor can give him a valid diagnosis.

So sorry you are going through this. I hope you and your family stay safe. I would absolutely watch your back when your brother is around as he is not stable, and has shown violent tendencies. I would be hesitant to leave your mother alone with him. Good luck!

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Hi Moreaux, are you in the US? Wherever you are, Seems you guys have had far nastier cannibinoids than we had in the UK. I'm not saying the ones we had were nice (the first ones were, but as the government banned them one by one the barrel got scraped terribly). One in particular caused me to collapse and have a seizure, but the effect was still sort of weed like and it wasn't addictive (to me at least). More an epic overdose. Sounds like you guys are getting something a good couple of leagues darker.

 

[FLA]

I'm sorry to hear that. I take care of my older brother who has been schizophrenic since the 1970's. He takes Seroquel now but I always thought Clozaril was like the gold standard for schizophrenia. Clozaril requires frequent blood tests and I'm not sure medicaid pays for it.

Like Moreaux said they can't make a proper diagnosis until he is off the synthetic cannabis. It's not an uncommon reaction to think it's all a big act, probably the best thing you could do is to assume it's real and let a professional sort it out. You have to try and remember, the absurd things they say, it's the mental illness talking.

 

[Moreaux]

Hi Moreaux, are you in the US? Wherever you are, Seems you guys have had far nastier cannibinoids than we had in the UK. I'm not saying the ones we had were nice (the first ones were, but as the government banned them one by one the barrel got scraped terribly). One in particular caused me to collapse and have a seizure, but the effect was still sort of weed like and it wasn't addictive (to me at least). More an epic overdose. Sounds like you guys are getting something a good couple of leagues darker.

Yes, I'm in the US. I haven't kept current on the synthetic cannaboids, my last use was in either 2010 or 2011. I was using the JHW series which didn't seem too bad but then it got banned and the replacement chem was not good to me, very speedy, quick psychosis, and siezures. I have no idea what it was as I was buying the packets of herbs with the chem already on it, I didn't trust myself to find a decent RC vendor and limit my purchases to cannaboids

Every now and then I read up on RCs and checkout a few vendor sites out of curiosity. When researching I hve come across so many accounts of brutal mental and physical repercussions from users that can't seem to quit. THe meth reference was their words as I haven't tried meth, but the stuff I tried was speedier than coke and pretty hard hitting.

As for the addiction piece - I never found any of them addictive either but many people struggle to quit and end up in rehab. If you query "spice addiction" or something similar you'll see what I mean.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Yes, I'm in the US. I haven't kept current on the synthetic cannaboids, my last use was in either 2010 or 2011. I was using the JHW series which didn't seem too bad but then it got banned and the replacement chem was not good to me, very speedy, quick psychosis, and siezures. I have no idea what it was as I was buying the packets of herbs with the chem already on it, I didn't trust myself to find a decent RC vendor and limit my purchases to cannaboids

Every now and then I read up on RCs and checkout a few vendor sites out of curiosity. When researching I hve come across so many accounts of brutal mental and physical repercussions from users that can't seem to quit. THe meth reference was their words as I haven't tried meth, but the stuff I tried was speedier than coke and pretty hard hitting.

As for the addiction piece - I never found any of them addictive either but many people struggle to quit and end up in rehab. If you query "spice addiction" or something similar you'll see what I mean.

Ah well, I was totally wrong then. It was AK-2201 That caused me to fit. They just made the blends much much MUCH too strong. So you've actually got worse to come. Have the STS-XX ones hit yet? STS-135 was mad, made me feel like I was on low dose mushrooms. Actually in small doses I liked that one.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying, back to topic.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

That last reply makes no sense. I rad the '2011' in your last post as '2201'. Am on my phone so can't edit. Sorry, carry on.

 

[SaganCarl]

I've been pondering this thread for a while trying to figure out what to say.

I agree with everyone else, he needs to stop the synthetic cannabis. This will induce psychosis and will absolutely mimic schizophrenia. I smoked it for a while during benzo withdrawal back in 2010 because I thought it was legal pot - it's not. These chems are not safe, and it's a crapshoot on what you're really getting. I have heard other users on this site say it's closer to meth than it is weed, and from my experience I would agree.

When I smoked it I lost so much weight, I struggled to stay at 100lbs. I was also clinically insane when I was high - I frequently hallucinated sounds, etc and had very few emotions. It was scary and I could not process reality, which is why I quit lol.

When you're brother was originally diagnosed was he actively smoking the synth cannabis? If yes, then I would be willing to wager that diagnosis may not be correct, and while your brother is actively smoking getting a legitimate diagnosis will be difficult. The medication he is prescribed should help with the hallucinations, but if he is taking it and smoking it may render the meds useless. I think the biggest priority is to get him off of the chems.

Apparently that may be difficult, as some users have reported them being very addictive. I have read many accounts people struggling to stop. You may want to try to get him into a rehab facility where he can't smoke that stuff any longer plus he will be under proper medical care and the staff doctor can give him a valid diagnosis.

So sorry you are going through this. I hope you and your family stay safe. I would absolutely watch your back when your brother is around as he is not stable, and has shown violent tendencies. I would be hesitant to leave your mother alone with him. Good luck!

Hello and yes he was actively smoking when he was first diagnosed as bipolar. He has been clean since july 2 when he got arrested and taken to a hospital for 5 days for evaluation. Since then i havent smelled the spice in the air and my parents have been in control of the money they give him.

Today my mom called me with some good news. She said that he hasnt had any episodes and is calm. Maybe the zyprexa is doing its job? Does it usually take this weeks for the meds to work?

 

[Moreaux]

That's great news! The Internet says it takes Zyprexa 6-12 weeks to be fully effective. I think him being of the chems is probably the biggest help to the situation. I'm really glad he's doing better. I would put a lot of faith in the previous diagnosis, or any diagnosis for a while as he has to heal from the chems, though I do hunk there is definately an underlying issue, there are just to many variables in play right now. When I was going through benzo withdrawal and smoking spice I'm certain I could have been diagnosed with something much more interesting than my issue of OCD because I was I. Amd out of psychosis and mildly hallucinating. Just try to be positive around him and keep supporting him like you have been, he's very lucky to have you in his life.

 

[Ziiirp]

Hey, Aleister Crowley was some funny guy.

Sounds like a rather typical cannabinoid induced psychosis to me. Even average sativa weed can cause that, when abused heavily and catalyzed by the right/wrong input.

Your duty as a brother is to buy your brethren some proper books and make sure, that if he must smoke any cannabinoid, it should be some good Indica strain with high CBD content (danger of psychosis is minimized) instead of those unpredictable synthetic analogues.

 

[SaganCarl]

Hey, Aleister Crowley was some funny guy.

Sounds like a rather typical cannabinoid induced psychosis to me. Even average sativa weed can cause that, when abused heavily and catalyzed by the right/wrong input.

Your duty as a brother is to buy your brethren some proper books and make sure, that if he must smoke any cannabinoid, it should be some good Indica strain with high CBD content (danger of psychosis is minimized) instead of those unpredictable synthetic analogues.

Yeah it only took a week for him to go Psychosis after getting into all that Occult bullshit all while under the influence of some 6x Spice. He actually believed he could do magic. At one point he gave my mom some water and told her that it would cure her rheumatoid arthritis..

Yeah man I have all kinds of great books. I would love for him to read a book that I am currently reading (Carl Sagan : science as a candle in the dark)
so he can gain a rational gaze. Yeah man and to think that all this could have been avoided if the waited until his probation was over to smoke the real stuff..

Big thanks for your input Moreaux. I will keep an eye one him and ask him how he is feeling every now and then. Yeah addicted to spice for two years maybe a little longer. I can imagine the detox from such a long binge (daily use) would take a few weeks to clear.