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Esoteric Why would you need a shaman?

I

Ismene2

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,652
Just wondering what you would see in a shaman? Why isnt the drug by itself sufficient? Why does the experience need to be filtered through another person, and often through the traditional religious views of this two-bit, penny-ante fucking cock-louse?
 
Why need a surgeon? You have a scalpel, antiseptic, ketamine, let's go!

If you want specific things done in a session involving spirits, you usually need a spiritworker.
 
In my view and experience Shaman is like a sitter with great experience/knowledge. I knew few self-proclaimed Shamans and have friends that know few "real ones from the Amazone". It is better to have a person around that has experienced psychedelics, especially the one you are going to take, for the first few times, than not to. Somebody with experience can literally pull you out from a bad trip where you're crying and being paranoid into a more healthy state. I know, have done it for my friends. But to do it to another you have to know/have experience with a similar situation yourself. Anyways the function of a true Shaman (Sibirian one) is done by doctors/psychotherapists in today's western societies. It is a talent and can not be learned in books and that is the reason why many people are more screwed after a psychiatrist/psychoterapist is "done with them". If one is, in western society, advertising themselves as "Shamans" they are probably deluded or just out for money (if not for more sinister things).

tl;tr - You don't necessarily need a shaman/sitter (and you definitely don't need a westerner playing "Shaman") but an experienced sitter that knows ins and outs of particular psychedelic and states they produce is a great safety net to have first few times. After the first few times it is off into the woods by yourself. For me, it means taking 5-10 grams of psilocybin mushrooms in my living room while my family is asleep. I am not making recommendations just giving an opinion/view from experience.
 
you have to learn how to interpret your own reality for your self.
if you use any form of master, you are infantalizing your self and should not use brain altering chemicals.

shamanism is occasionally an amazing example of a connection with reality, or spirit or god and they are all the same thing. but this is not standardized, and fakers are a dime a dozen.

some people are amazing to be around - find them, be them, that is the essence of spirituality
 
I think the concept of shamans is a bit cool and romantic but another part of me considers them not much more than glorified trip sitters.

It's really up to you of you need one or want one.
 
This bloke said it in a minute. (He also spoke endlessly but that's another topic altogether. 🤣)

 
I have always been in the camp of you are your own Guru and own Shaman. People do not need someone outside of themselves if they are masters at taking on knowledge. And I have to say as I walk the Earth the only people I look up to are in books that I read. Just about everyone I meet can't teach me anything except that I do want to be like them. So the thought of paying someone to trip with me when I like to trip alone seems like a scam. And I understand there are a lot of scams. I understand there is a lot of healing that could happen but I see no real stories that convince me. If anyone has them post so we can discuss.

Shamanism itself seems important. The closest thing that I can understand with Shamanism is the letting go causes some healings. The closest I ever got to being a Shaman was back in Jan. My FIL was dying we had had talks about letting go in the end. He struggled a little bit. So when he lasted another day I got the idea that I would blast off on DMT. That entails some form of letting go for me and it does scare me a little. So I said a little prayer and dedicated the blast off to my FIL and said let's both let go. Trying to transfer my ability of letting go to him. He died the next day. Now in a effort to not create belief systems I do not correlate his death with my blast off. I just did it as a prayer. So I will not say my blast off had anything to do with his letting go. Although he could have held on for another week fighting death. I remember telliing him as I visited hm and took him around that just remember the word EASE and think it and feel it. Ease. Trying to give him some exercises. I am proud of him his last day. He did let go and I feel he did eased himself out. Now my wife disputes that because she was right by his side in the nursing home and witness hin moan at times. That is ok. My wife did her own form of Shamanism by stroking his head and telling him it is ok to let go. All of that I consider some form of Shamanism and we all do it everyday without realizing.

@Ismene2 I know you had posted you have some very personal experiences. No need to post because i have some that are very personal. I did not want to type that above but figured someone here could relate. But I have some others where people would call me bonkers so I keep them close.

But yes I am my own Guru and Shaman. I can not eve fatho m thinking someone knows more about me than me. :)
 
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HOOH said:
Because surgeons know what the fuck they are doing.

"Shamans" are mostly just conmen.
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You don't go to a "tourist surgeon" in a hotel room, why would one hire a "tourist shaman" and expect quality results?

Good shamans know what they are doing and they get results.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
shamans are scam artists. Especially true when it comes to 5meo dmt. Id rather just brew my own drugs than take the chance of this random stranger shoving their cock up yall poop hole mid trip
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I know people who paid lots of money to go to Peru and Brasil, and take Ayahuasca in a cult and who knows if they were given authentic Ayahuasca, or not? The one person loved it when the shaman would mix in brugmansia or tree Datura into the Ayahuasca.
 
Asante said:
You don't go to a "tourist surgeon" in a hotel room, why would one hire a "tourist shaman" and expect quality results?

Good shamans know what they are doing and they get results.
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In what sense? Have you ever met or worked with a shaman, or been to Peru or Brasil?
 
Asante said:
Why need a surgeon? You have a scalpel, antiseptic, ketamine, let's go!

If you want specific things done in a session involving spirits, you usually need a spiritworker.
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What exactly are these spirits? What is purple medicine?

From wiki page on Ayahuasca:
DMT admixtures:

Psychotria viridis (Chacruna)[11] – leaves
Diplopterys cabrerana (Chaliponga, Chagropanga, Banisteriopsis rusbyana)[11] – leaves
Psychotria carthagenensis (Amyruca)[11] – leaves
Mimosa tenuiflora (M. hostilis) - Root bark
Other common admixtures:

Justicia pectoralis[9]
Brugmansia (Toé)[11]
Nicotiana rustica[11] (Mapacho, variety of tobacco)
Ilex guayusa,[11] a relative of yerba mate
Common admixtures with their associated ceremonial values and spirits:

Ayahuma[11] bark: Cannon Ball tree. Provides protection and is used in healing susto (soul loss from spiritual fright or trauma).
Capirona[11] bark: Provides cleansing, balance and protection. It is noted for its smooth bark, white flowers, and hard wood.
Chullachaki caspi[11] bark (Brysonima christianeae): Provides cleansing to the physical body. Used to transcend physical body ailments.
Lopuna blanca bark: Provides protection.
Punga amarilla bark: Yellow Punga. Provides protection. Used to pull or draw out negative spirits or energies.
Remo caspi[11] bark: Oar Tree. Used to move dense or dark energies.
Wyra (huaira) caspi[11] bark (Cedrelinga catanaeformis): Air Tree. Used to create purging, transcend gastro/intestinal ailments, calm the mind, and bring tranquility.
Shiwawaku bark: Brings purple medicine to the ceremony.
Uchu sanango: Head of the sanango plants.
Huacapurana: Giant tree of the Amazon with very hard bark
Bobinsana: Mermaid Spirit. Provides major heart chakra opening, healing of emotions and relationships.
 
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Who came up with all those suggestions tho priest? Sound like the "flower remedies" you get in the uk. The dmt is by far the most important component - unless someone really enjoys chowing down on tree bark 😀
 
Asante said:
You don't go to a "tourist surgeon" in a hotel room, why would one hire a "tourist shaman" and expect quality results?

Good shamans know what they are doing and they get results
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No such thing as a "good shaman". They are all crooks, you never learn do you? Its like there is sign over your head saying "scam me".
--------

WS Burroughs wandered south america for years looking for ayahusca and had to go the middle of nowhere to find a single tribe that used it. Now there are shamans everywhere down there. They became shamans to meet demand. Its not authentic and paying thousands of dollars to do something you could do at home for cheap is foolish. Its like going to Haiti to see voodoo rituals, they are doing it for the tourists.

Its fine to get into this shit for the mystical experience but don't get scammed into thinking you participated in some ancient ritual because you paid a native a thousand dollars to put on a show. The Peyote church can at least make a claim to actual lineage, but 5-meo-dmt "shamans" were a recent invention with no history all.
 
I think the "shaman" who "initiated" mike tyson was caught sniffing the gusset on the used pantyhose of his female "patients" 😁
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
I’m a wizard by occupation too. You can’t find me in the yellow pages. You’ll usually find me at filthy hippie festivals. People hire me to guide them through the etheric plane. The difference between me and other shamans, is that they give me some of their drugs to take with them, and it only costs them 300 dollars for me to high with them.

It’s a good gig

🧙‍♂️
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is the etheric plane another word for the animistic world?
do you also deliver babies, and understand the healing powers of individual plants of the jungle/forest?

I have never paid someone to party, scratch that, I have joined a few retired art loving lawyers to painting sessions with an artist in her studio. Hell she needed the money, and I was my own party. I find it goes deeper without strangers in the room.

less gamey,
 
Ismene2 said:
Who came up with all those suggestions tho priest? Sound like the "flower remedies" you get in the uk. The dmt is by far the most important component - unless someone really enjoys chowing down on tree bark 😀
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I have no idea who came up with them? I guess via centuries of using various plants and experimenting with Ayahuasca the natives add stuff to the Ayahuasca/yagé to impress western tourists or to charge them more? Or maybe certain plants, flowers, roots, etc. help calm the stomach?

Ilex Guayusa has caffeine, as does yerba mate, so I guess this is added to keep people awake? Or relax from the Xanthines?

The Ayahuasca/yagé Burroughs took was either fake, or very weak as the effects were either mild or imagined/placebo effect, and not really like when people today take larger doses of Ayahuasca.
 
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