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Why The Rich Love Burning Man

By the way, on re-reading the Vice article cited above, it seems to strike me more and more as fiction or at least highly exaggerated, and not just because of the urban-legend transdermal LSD thing. The general types of clowns that he ran into sound believable enough though.

Personally, I've grown out of the festival scene. I was heavily into the psy/goa/doof scene around Victoria where I live, but I started to find the atmosphere of the community to be really tedious and often fake.

It was the dark, drug-related underbelly that turned me off to the hippie scene. The tie-dyed love-and-light pieties seemed all the more tiresome, which seemed tiresome to begin with, given that they existed atop of and sustained by some seriously shady scenes and bad people.

I met some cool people at these events, including my closest mate, but me and him are both out of the actual scene. I still attend some of these hippie events, but my eyes were opened some years back when I went to a seedy ass crust punk gig in London. This was real hardcore, far-left, anarcho/hippy punks and I couldn't fucking wait to leave. The righteous indigination in the room was palpable. I can't be fucked pretending to be outside of society, living in one of the worlds most affluent countries. These squatters, whose dedication I admired, were still squatting in one of capitalisms greatest cities.

Agreed on the hypocrisy. "Crust punks," which in some places tends to have the connotation of in-group elitism and (from my point of view, which isn't yours) rather reprehensible politics, is in my local scene often conflated with "gutter punks," who may maintain a veer of idealistic commitment to "dropping out" but who are way more about hard drug use, poor hygiene, and overall embracing degeneracy as a "fuck the world" statement (which phrase a friend who travelled in these circles for a while has tattooed on his body.) Or do these scenes really overlap that much? Because I would find a commune of feminist, militantly vegan heroin addicts pretty amusing. I mean, the degenerates that I'm talking about would probably agree with the anarcho-leftist ethos of the elitists you're talking about, probably an inch more anarcho- than leftist, but they are more preoccupied with spare change-ing for dope and malt liqour than changing the world.

But one shouldn'tt be too cynical. I still enjoy the music, and there is something hugely powerful about sunrise, gum trees and loud faceburning doof. :)

Yeah, I still enjoy the dead and some EDM. I can't stand most of the rest of hippie music though. Nor most hippies.
 
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whether burning man successfully follows its own guiding principles in practice is a separate discussion. what is burning man - is it the total, collective experience of the individuals who attend between the day the gates open and the burn? that seems limiting immediately.

from the burning man website, here are 'the 10 principles of burning man':
Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.

Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

Radical Self-reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.

Radical Self-expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.

Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.

Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.

Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.

Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.

Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.
that all seems to be a pretty positive, healthy set of guiding principles but i understand that some people are going to have a problem with these ideas.

alasdair
 
I'm at a loss as to why anyone thought it was ever anything other than an excuse for a party. I mean come on.. all the pretense and idealism aside, it is just an excuse for loads of people to get together, take substances and feel good about themselves.

The one redeeming element that I really do resonate with are the seminars and discussions that take place.. or at least that's what I assume having listened to the Psychedelic Salon podcast/Lorenzo, who did 'playalogues'. That is what most festivals and large gatherings are missing, and it represents a massive missed opportunity.. a chance for like minds to come together and take something seriously for once, instead of just coming for the music, drugs, 'art' and having a good time. If people want to have a party that's great.. but don't pretend its something more than it really is.

I think BM had the opportunity to evolve but has succumb to the same pressures as always.. money, sex and drugs. Unfortunately I don't think many BM idealists really understand that actually their idea of a better world isn't going to happen whilst they continue to use any substances. Clear heads are needed when it comes to practicalities. The hippies tried with their dreaming, idealism, drug use and sexual escapades.. 40 years later and we're all paying for their choices. You can't dream a better world, you have to actually build it.
 
SS has a good point. At its heart, its just a party. Entertainment, fun, hedonism, what-have-you. There is an importance to having fun, so that doesn't neccesarily detract from the other notions.

My major concern with all 'remote' festivals is the impact they have on the local environment. I've seen some pretty bad bush areas after a doof has left; shameful to be honest. Whilst hardly a doof, Earthcore were fucking notorious for this. Notorious for utterly ripping punters off too. But, hippies can be just as selfish as the rest of us.

Having fun is no reason to fuck up the environment. Leave no trace.

Radical inclusion- it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, everyone is invited and welcomed.

High ticket prices sort of deny that principle, admirable as it is.
 
For a week long festival is hardly excessive when compared to a single day music festival. There is also the opportunity to volunteer and a low income ticket programme.

Personally I choose smaller doofs for the reason that they usually state they are Leave no Trace events. Many doofs actually stop the music for an hours to allow for everyone to perform an Emu parade, sweeping the grounds and picking up rubbish. I'm sure the overall ethos of Burning Man is at least partially pure, despite such a large population of random punters. One can only lead by example.
 
I'm at a loss as to why anyone thought it was ever anything other than an excuse for a party. I mean come on.. all the pretense and idealism aside, it is just an excuse for loads of people to get together, take substances and feel good about themselves.

The one redeeming element that I really do resonate with are the seminars and discussions that take place.. or at least that's what I assume having listened to the Psychedelic Salon podcast/Lorenzo, who did 'playalogues'. That is what most festivals and large gatherings are missing, and it represents a massive missed opportunity.. a chance for like minds to come together and take something seriously for once, instead of just coming for the music, drugs, 'art' and having a good time. If people want to have a party that's great.. but don't pretend its something more than it really is.

I think BM had the opportunity to evolve but has succumb to the same pressures as always.. money, sex and drugs. Unfortunately I don't think many BM idealists really understand that actually their idea of a better world isn't going to happen whilst they continue to use any substances. Clear heads are needed when it comes to practicalities. The hippies tried with their dreaming, idealism, drug use and sexual escapades.. 40 years later and we're all paying for their choices. You can't dream a better world, you have to actually build it.
have you been to burning man or been involved with it in any way?

alasdair
 
At its heart, its just a party.
have you been to burning man?

i have a ton of respect for your posts willow but it's my opinion that you are wrong here. attempting to sum up burning man in one internet-friendly soundbite is futile. for some people - probably many people - burning man is an opportunity to party. but it's an awful, awful lot more than than.

ask 50000 people what burning man is and you'll get, i would imagine, 40,000 different answers. obviously, that's not a scientific claim - it's an attempt to capture the idea that burning man is, to some extent, different for everybody.

i think that trying to capture that in a single phrase or sentence does the event a disservice.

alasdair
 
I've never been a fan of the Burning Man scene, granted, I've never been, but I've been peripheral enough to it, it's attendees, and derivative effects for it to leave a me with profound sense of annoyance and an unpleasant taste in my mouth. I've never really given much though beyond that but this thread is helping. My distaste for this scene starts with my annoyance at bad art and weekend warrior neohippies, but on a deeper level, it sounds kind of cultish, honestly. And then all the people who talk about Burning Man as the summit of their year, and the festival being hawked as some transformative experience in the vein of EST and it's imitators, Landmark, etc., the "decompression parties" (lol.) Cultic, too, are Rainbow Gatherings (which are, admittedly, in the heart of darkness beyond the rainbows, much, much scarier than Burning Man), the Grateful Dead scene, Alex Gray's ridiculous fucking psychedelic Waco compound upstate, as are all of these things.

And there is something a bit unsettling about the manifesto posted above, it sounds like a nine-day porridge of various vacuous and vaguely left-libertarian and New Age platitudes to glorify, as we've said before, a big party.

Burning Man via ali said:
Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.

Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

See discussion of ticket prices, and the lack of gifting thereof. See also drugs, the various objets that are needed to create the "self expression" art (99% of which is insufferable), and I'm sure many, many other commodities. Like the original thread is about, while I'm no socialist, I find a socialist veneer over elite capitalism even more irritating than plain socialism.

Although, as far as inclusion goes, if Grover Norquist can go, maybe they'd even welcome me. Speaking of, The Main Street Republican Values of Burning Man, which is either evidence for OP's thesis or hypocritcal preening to the Government to justify hedonistic excess in the middle of nowhere, I can't really tell which.

Burning Man via ali said:
Radical Self-reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.

Radical Self-expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.

Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.

Cooperation and collaboration are good, but again, not everyone can be an artist. This is a major pet peeve of mine. A lot of the "art" that goes on in this sort of context, and I include the underground warehouse parties around here that I used to hang out at, these are also gargantuan drug orgies but maintain a veneer of being about "art," and so on, and so forth, is the very height of banality, ugliness, and lack of meaning or depth. I'm sure there is good art at Burning Man, as there is, on occasion, at these other places, but you have to slog through a whole lot of nonsense to find it.

Quoting from article linked above:

Jonathan Jones said:
So democracy is great – except when it shapes the actual work of art. I do not believe a great work of art has ever been created by communal consensus, let alone by multiple editors. There will never be a wiki-masterpiece. This is because art, if it has any value at all, is the product of deep and often rationally incommunicable perceptions, and to try and explain or share those perceptions in a communally created artwork will negotiate and re-edit them to banality.

But, I hear you roar, there are obvious objections to that claim. What about devised theatre and the films of Mike Leigh? But the reason Leigh's pieces work so well is that talented actors are doing the interaction: what you are seeing is not a democratic free-for-all but an elite. Good art is the product of talent. All the forces in our culture that weaken our belief in talent deny this fundamental fact, but it always returns to haunt us.

Participatory art is a denial of talent. It panders to a cosy lie, that everyone is equally able to create worthwhile art. What chance have we of nurturing those rare wonders in our midst, the born artists, if we claim this infantile right to put on a badge that says "artist"?

To return:

Burning Man via ali said:
Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.

Absolutely hilarious coming from promoters of an event that is notorious for the consumption of copious amounts of federally controlled substances.

Burning Man via ali said:
Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.

This is good but as people have described above this tends to fall to volunteers or employees and be ignored by participants, at least from my experience with similar events and the descriptions above.

Burning Man via ali said:
Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.

Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.

What does this even mean?

SS said:
I'm at a loss as to why anyone thought it was ever anything other than an excuse for a party. I mean come on.. all the pretense and idealism aside, it is just an excuse for loads of people to get together, take substances and feel good about themselves.
Yes
SS said:
The one redeeming element that I really do resonate with are the seminars and discussions that take place.. or at least that's what I assume having listened to the Psychedelic Salon podcast/Lorenzo, who did 'playalogues'. That is what most festivals and large gatherings are missing, and it represents a massive missed opportunity.. a chance for like minds to come together and take something seriously for once, instead of just coming for the music, drugs, 'art' and having a good time. If people want to have a party that's great.. but don't pretend its something more than it really is.
This happens on the Internet, and at psychedelic conferences, for a whole lot cheaper, with many more creature comforts and fewer bourgeois neohippies. These are all laudable things.
SS said:
I think BM had the opportunity to evolve but has succumb to the same pressures as always.. money, sex and drugs. Unfortunately I don't think many BM idealists really understand that actually their idea of a better world isn't going to happen whilst they continue to use any substances. Clear heads are needed when it comes to practicalities. The hippies tried with their dreaming, idealism, drug use and sexual escapades.. 40 years later and we're all paying for their choices. You can't dream a better world, you have to actually build it.
So much of this.
 
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^ again, summing up bm as "it's just one big drug party" is convenient for the hating but it's inaccurate.

i think it's great that you have an opinion on burning man. but you have not participated in any meaningful way and so, unfortunately, your opinion and comments are based on ignorance. it's not uncommon - most of the vocal critics of burning man i've heard have not been and their opinion is based on hearsay, assumption and misunderstanding. it's as sad as ever but it happens in all walks of like.

but i get that it's not for everybody. in some cases, it sounds like commentators have made up their minds that they wouldn't want to enjoy it because of their ignorance of the event and their own biases.

sounds like you wouldn't enjoy it. i'd advise you to not go.

alasdair
 
Haha this is classic. The butthurt is palpable. I think we touched a nerve.

have you been to burning man or been involved with it in any way?

I live in the UK. Not going to waste my money on traveling half way round the world just to hang out in a desert with a bunch of fairies and hedonists. If I had that kind of money, which I don't, I would spend it on traveling to either Maui or Chile.. would quite like to see the full night sky once in my life.

Have no qualms about BM if people will just admit to themselves that it's a party and that's what they're there for. But it is obviously hard to do.. half of the attraction and reason why it has gotten so big is entirely down to the pretense of appearing to be doing something significant and special. Fantasy (and pleasure) sells. It always has. If that's your bag again I have no issue.. all the more power to you. If you wish to believe it's something more than it is.. again, power to you. I just don't buy what is being sold that's all.
 
as with skl, you're entitled to your opinion. at least you admit it's based on ignorance.

your comments about the event say so much more about you than they do about the event itself.

thanks.

alasdair
 
SS, really no need to start with the personal shit. This is a discussion, not a confrontation. :)

have you been to burning man?

i have a ton of respect for your posts willow but it's my opinion that you are wrong here. attempting to sum up burning man in one internet-friendly soundbite is futile. for some people - probably many people - burning man is an opportunity to party. but it's an awful, awful lot more than than.

ask 50000 people what burning man is and you'll get, i would imagine, 40,000 different answers. obviously, that's not a scientific claim - it's an attempt to capture the idea that burning man is, to some extent, different for everybody.

i think that trying to capture that in a single phrase or sentence does the event a disservice.

alasdair

I should add the huge caveat that I am Australian and have never been to Burning Man. You missed the rest of what I said though, Ali. I think there is value in a party, and I would imagine that a lot of people who attend Burning Man do so to enjoy that aspect of it. There's no harm in that. A lot of people get something more from it then 'just' fun, which is great too.

I just find the commercialisation of the hippy or left-wing movement to be quite contradictory. I understand that under capitalism, that is what happens. But, I find it hard to appreciate.
 
I should add the huge caveat that I am Australian and have never been to Burning Man. You missed the rest of what I said though, Ali.
i didn't miss it. i just responded to the points for which i had reasonably well-formed thoughts ready.
I think there is value in a party, and I would imagine that a lot of people who attend Burning Man do so to enjoy that aspect of it.
exactly. it's an aspect. my issue is with ignorant comments like those ss is posting suggesting that burning man is a drug-fulled party. no more no less.
I just find the commercialisation of the hippy or left-wing movement to be quite contradictory.
i do to. but burning man has always strived to keep the even as noncommercial as possible. it's not a festival like other festivals where you pay to get in, pay for food, pay for merchandise, etc. you bring what you need and pack everything out. does burning man meet 100% of its goals 100% of the time? of course not. like life, there are people who attend the event who are there just to spectate and consume.

the main tier ticket price for burning man this year was $390 - the same price it was in 2012. that's an increase of 0%. people like to compare bm to large-scale music festivals so, for comparison, the ticket price for coachella has gone up 24% in the same 4 year period.

alasdair
 
Don't even pretend to deny it is a drug-fueled party. If substances were banned and that was enforced properly it would be a non-event and you know it.
 
It's interesting how most of the internet buzz on burning man has gone from explodingly positive up until say 2011, and then increasingly negative until here in 2015 most of the stuff you see is people dissing it, criticizing people for going, saying it's just for the rich etc etc.. The change of tides is probably good for the survival of the festival, but it is a bit of an end of innocence, sad a little bit.

I do find it funny how much authority people talk with about the festival who have probably never been.
I've been lots and I think it's fucking awesome. It's everything people say and more, good and bad.
 
Don't even pretend to deny it is a drug-fueled party...and you know it.
do people at burning man use drugs? sure they do - i won't deny that. but your comments are ignorant.

you're funny, ss. you're over in ce&p berating people and telling them to open their minds. because you're so unbiased and open-minded.
I do find it funny how much authority people talk with about the festival who have probably never been.
probably? ss defniitely hasn't been but he not only know more about it he knows better than i do how i think and feel about it. very, very special, he is.

alasdair
 
I see that I was being a bit douchey in dismissing Burning Man. I really had/have no opinion of it, but I manufactured one out of my old dreads.

But I am cynical towards hippie culture. Note that I identified as one. Who hasn't. My problem is that I want to see something totally at odds with society, totally freaky and utterly non-conventional. The places where I sought that may not actually have that quality.
 
Don't even pretend to deny it is a drug-fueled party.
in another thread over in ce&p, a user called '-=ss=-' is condescendingly berating somebody thus:
Yes. Seriously. Instead of relying on other people or sources to feed you bite sizes pieces of 'information' about a person or their motives, watch and listen to the person themselves.
...
But of course it's much easier to just blanket label them and not bother to listen to the person themselves, and feel smug in the righteous indignation.
i could write, of your burning man comments in this thread:

"yes. seriously. instead of relying on other people or sources to feed you bite sizes pieces of 'information' about burners or their motives, watch and listen to the burners themselves.
...
but of course it's much easier to just blanket label them and not bother to listen to the person themselves, and feel smug in the righteous indignation.
"

i'd advise the -=ss=- in this thread to take the advice of the -=ss=- in that thread. it's so spooky weird that this -=ss=- is doing exactly what that -=ss=- is accusing others of doing. i'm not sure but it just seems like breathtaking hypocrisy, doesn't it?

i know it seems crazy but is it possible you two are related?

:)

alasdair
 
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