Why do some people seem to be resistant to addiction?

[MeDieViL]

Bingo!

Seriously, does anyone want to hazard a guess at how many tens of thousands of people thought they couldn't become addicted for this reason or that and lo and behold, ended up addicted? If you use drugs long enough, you're pretty much guaranteed to become addicted.

I disagree with this, its known that ppl with a addictive personality have a lower density of da receptors, im addicted to stimulants however when also using desoxypipradol my mdpv addiction vanished and i kept forgetting to redose, desoxy replicates people with a high da receptor density in a way.

not that a anecdote from a person with mental disorders means much, but it was interesting to note.

The original queston is terribly wrong-worded. That anybody can be addicted to any drug under the right circumstances should be trivial to anyone. The Real Question is why does some people develop addiction more slowly than others?

I believe we all can relate to nicotine and adolescence. Everyone tried smoking once, some even several times, but only a fraction got an cigarette addiction. Why? Only environmental factors or something else? I think something else, since tobacco was extremely euphoric to me, from the first time encounter. THAT was the biggest reason I continued smoking. My environment discouraged smoking enormously.

It is laughable to think that addiction doesn't (to a part) have an neurobiologic origin. Of course it does, but why?

Many differened reasons can explain this, in rodents serotonin release reduces addictive behavor, and anecdotes show ibogaine can make addiction mostly vanish, its not unlikely that some individuals have a biochemistry that replicates ibogaine (nicotine antagonism is one of its mechanism and some individuals will have a natural lower density of this receptor as an example.

 

[Hammilton]

I disagree with this, its known that ppl with a addictive personality have a lower density of da receptors, im addicted to stimulants however when also using desoxypipradol my mdpv addiction vanished and i kept forgetting to redose, desoxy replicates people with a high da receptor density in a way.

not that a anecdote from a person with mental disorders means much, but it was interesting to note.

I don't know what you're disagreeing with me for... I don't feel like insulting anyone, it's too late, or early, but what you're saying doesn't dispute what I said at all.

For one, the idea of an addictive personality is not born out in the research. There's just no evidence that such a thing exists. However, there is very, very strong evidence for a heavy genetic component to addiction liability.

I don't think your MDPV addiction vanished when you were taking desoxypipradrol anymore than a heroin addict's addiction disappears when he consumes methadone. You just substituted one drug for another temporarily.

Ibogaine actually DECREASES extracellular DA concentrations. If you have a smaller population of dopamine receptors, having less dopamine to boot is doubly bad.

Looking at the effects of 18-methoxycoronaridine (18MC) I would think that nicotinic mechanisms are mostly responsible for Ibogaine's antiaddictive effects. It's a bit cleaner than ibogaine itself, but has the same activity.

Many differened reasons can explain this, in rodents serotonin release reduces addictive behavor

Do you have a study to support this claim? I find it particularly unlikely. Selective serotonin releasers like fenfluramine and chlorphentermine, while not highly recreational drugs, were certainly abused and there were definitely people addicted to these drugs. I suspect they're on waiting lists for heart valves today.

 

[MeDieViL]

I don't know what you're disagreeing with me for... I don't feel like insulting anyone, it's too late, or early, but what you're saying doesn't dispute what I said at all.

I pointed this outmyself, my anecdote doesnt mean much.

I cant say i subsituted an addiction as on desoxy only i felt therapeutic effects for my condition and not high, i would kinda say that as addiction is being addicted too and chasing a drugs high. I am still addicted to the other substance but i no longer chase a high, this MAY replicate a person thats naturally higher in da, (wich are less likely to get addicted).

Again i clearly pointed out that it doesnt mean much, but addiction can have 2 meanings, my desoxy addiction was still an addiction but not one where i chased a high, simular to methadone (afaik it doesnt make you high but just removes the mental addiction to heroin).

For the last the ratio makes the difference, people dont get addicted to MDMA in the same way.

 

[sekio]

simular to methadone (afaik it doesnt make you high but just removes the mental addiction to heroin

you're confused. There is a difference between psychological drug addiction ("I need drugs to work effectively") and physical drug dependency ("If I don't get some opiates I will get the shakes").
Methadone like any other opioid will get you high - but in the case of people using methadone maintenance they have been using opioids for so long that they don't "feel good" any more. It doesn't remove any mental addiction, all methadone does is sate your body's need for opioids so it doesan't go into withdrawals. Lots of people who use methadone also go and abuse other opiates (i.e. they still have a mental addiction)

If you can't effectively work during your day without a dose of desoxy, you're addicted. If you stop taking desoxy and your body gets the shakes and you get sick, you're dependent. Just because you're dependent doesn't mean you're addictyed, and vice versa.

 

[Torabora]

I know exactly what you mean mate, I'm the same. I don't know whether it's my willpower or otherwise.

I've smoked for longer than my best mate, however I don't find the need to smoke at all unless I am seriously at peaking stress levels - otherwise it just never crosses my mind, I can go days without a ciggarette. I'd like one, but I don't beat myself up about it if you get me?

If there's cannabis there, I won't have to smoke it, I'll smoke it when I want to, not need to. I don't know, I know addiction IS real and that things can grab a hold of people but I've never had anything grab a hold of me.

I know exactly what you mean I also had no real problems with drugs also I tried a lot of them during my life only Mephedrone gave some problems but I also got over it quite fast and a lot faste then my gf ^^ but she made it too

 

[MeDieViL]

I selfmedicate with desoxy, but im also addicted at the same time, however unlike your example with methadone MDPV still makes me very high, so while im addicted to both being on desoxy i allways forget to redose my MDPV while i like the high, so i could say it removes my mental addiction to MDPV in a way.

Im not dependent, just feel sleepy 2 days when i stop taking it, im just want to selfmedicate and get high, if i wasnt selfmedicating id still take it for the high, then id just have mental addiction.

 

[Hiltoniano]

those semantic games are lost on me.... ^

to the OP, I think everyone here has made at least a minor contribution to the conclusion that: everyone is different. idiosyncratic. Some people are more athletic than others for various reasons, some people are addicted to drugs ( or not addicted) for other various reasons. Its a clusterfuck of causes.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i think people may be resistant to addiction because their reward pathways don't configure to the drug in the way that it does to most of the population (in the case of opiates for example). i don't know the exact scientific mechanism as to how opiates activate the reward pathway, but from what i've read and researched, it is through dopamine transference and opiate receptor activation within the VTA and dopamine release into the nucleus accumbens along with many other factors within the brain which causes conditioning to the drug thus providing a reinforcing pattern for a person to re-use the drug.

i have a hunch that when a person cannot release dopamine within these sectors of the brain or opiate receptors within this part of the brain are not activated through drug use, it does not reinforce the behaviour to continue to administer the drugs as there is "reward" being pushed through the persons mind, and i think this occurs when a person uses a drug when they are in a good setting and mood at the time of administration of the drug. for example, the first time i used benzodiazepenes i enjoyed the feeling and it felt good so to say, but i had no inclination to use them again. when i saw the valium again i didn't really want to take them, there was no need for me to do so. however, i then took xanax again when i was at a time of extreme stress and mental breakdown. it calmed me down so much and reinforced this quick fix situation in my head - and i knew that this drug would help me in times of stress or when i felt low. hence i was conditioned to using the drug because i knew it would remove X feeling from myself.

complicated really. but explainable somewhat.

 

[wrongdose]

I really wish that there was a definitive answer to this, different research is leading down different paths and there is even the theory that different drugs have different mechanisms to producing addiction, not helpful! I haven't provided a reference here because I'm on my tablet and it's not proven research, I hope that's ok.

I have been taking meds (mainly opioids) for over 7 years and although I am physically dependent on them, once I am passed wds I don't struggle with not taking them...and I love that warm, fuzzy euphoria. I chase it sometimes and other times I just use my meds for pain. Is it the pain that stops addiction? And I have had terribly low places where life is not fulfilling and I do chase a high, but I only usually do it occasionally.

I've read some stuff suggestive of this but I'm yet to be convinced because I have done the same with smoking, I really enjoy it and can smoke for months and then just quit even though I do miss it. I also love, love ketamine but maybe no addiction stems from lack of supply.

I have met (in hospital for dependence, them, not me) others who cannot hoarde a pill and really suffer at the hands of addiction - even if they no longer achieve euphoria, they can't help but chase it. Yet I also know others like me, my mum is one and I have another friend that chips away, she ran through hundreds of pills of oxy over 48 hours but once the 'supply' was gone she didn't seek even though her father uses.

I don't know if anyone can shed light here. I wish humans were morehomogeneous, it would make understanding addiction so much easier.

 

[rickolasnice]

A lot of addiction can be as simple as being addicted to something like higher DA levels in the synapse.. not to a specific drug, more it's affects..

Swapping 1 drug for another does not count as beating the addiction.

 

[blight12]

To be very specific, I find myself now very resistant to addiction specifically with regards to stimulants that don't cause physical addiction/withdrawals. The reason for this specifically is that I no longer experience cravings for these drugs.
These stopped for me a long time ago like a light switch one week where these simply vanished.

I have not been able to find a reason why but the closest I have come is that it was somehow linked to breaking my brain with serious MDMA usage, consecutive days and OD/danger level dosages. Something in my brain got rewired from this shortly after the final OD where I had a bad psychotic break, derealization/depersonalization experience over a week after which i stopped MDMA forever (8 years now).

So yes this killed cravings in my brain forever for other stims but came with years of serious GA, PTSD etc and its only getting better now 8 years later. Im sure it wasnt worth it at the end of the day.

The removal of cravings has been the light and day factor in ensuring my usage of dopamine based stimulants over the last 8 years has always been controllable and always restrained to weekend and recreational usage only. I remember before the cravings stopped, I was out of control and headed to destruction with my cocaine usage. The change really saved my ass since my willpower was and still is pathetic

I still think however that if somehow the exact reason for why this killed cravings coould be identified, it could help so many people...

 

[LogicAndReason]

It's most likely a combination of factors. Drugs affect every person differently. Just as people have varying tastes in music, food, etc., people also have varying tastes in drugs. The more you enjoy something, the more addictive it can be. If you don't enjoy something that much, it has a much lower degree of addiction TO YOU than something you enjoy more. Furthermore, there's also will power (a form of intelligence, imo.) Certain people are more rational than others when it comes to their drug use. Moreover, intelligent people tend to research things before trying them, or shortly after trying them, and are well aware of the consequences/appropriate dosages

 

[blight12]

It's most likely a combination of factors. Drugs affect every person differently. Just as people have varying tastes in music, food, etc., people also have varying tastes in drugs. The more you enjoy something, the more addictive it can be. If you don't enjoy something that much, it has a much lower degree of addiction TO YOU than something you enjoy more. Furthermore, there's also will power (a form of intelligence, imo.) Certain people are more rational than others when it comes to their drug use. Moreover, intelligent people tend to research things before trying them, or shortly after trying them, and are well aware of the consequences/appropriate dosages

Absolutely, I strongly agree that education yourself and understanding the substance, risks, correct usage allows for a much safer period of experimentation. This fear-monging propaganda society throws around about drug use makes it far worse for people because suddenly there is this big evil drug that has this huge power over them, in their mind, and if you believe that it got power over you then it will.

Obviously this means you are not underestimating them either and you are respectful of the risks, but you instead make educated logic based risk analysis decisions and not flawed emotional fear based ones.

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

I'm under a strong impression there is a physiological reason for decreased susceptibility for addiction. I'm with ebola on this one if I had to guess the reason. Self-discipline and moderation also play some role in it too I'd say.

I also have a similar experience with many drugs. Of course I also practice moderation in order to prevent addiction. My drug usage goes in phases. I'll buy something in bulk, use it regularly for months, then get bored with it. Then move on to some other drug. I used MDMA regularly for a few months, got bored. Started using shrooms regularly for months, got bored. Started using acid for a few months, got bored. Started using cocaine for a few months (never more than a gram a day), got bored. Started using meth (low dosage orally ~40mg once every few days), then got bored. Started doing various RCs for awhile. Started using MXE for a few months, then ran out. Ketamine when it's available (random as hell) I'll do for a couple weeks straight occasionally. Same for opiates (rare as hell, but I'll use them for a week or so when I get some).

I've been sober of everything for over a couple months now, and honestly have no real desire to do anything. It's all "boring" for me now. I know what's going to happen if I take something, so the fun is gone.

I'm only addicted to curiosity and nicotine I believe. Can't kick nicotine addiction for the life of me. Of course the co-morbidity of nicotine dependence and my mental illness is pretty high. Everything else was "well that was fun, but I'm done now". No physical or psychological cravings ever occurred. My bills always took priority and my career didn't suffer.

 

[Nucynta_80]

Its my humble opinion that if a person has a physical/mental need for a drug, they are less (not immune obviously) prone to addiction for that drug. Example, when I'm in really bad pain, I rarely even know I took my prescribed nucynta (a C-II opioid), except for some decrease in pain after 75 minutes or so. However, when the pain is more moderate, I sometimes get a mild euphoria from it. I get a clear mind but no euphoria from my 10mg once daily prescribed adderall dose (although at 10mgs, that's basically a baby dose, lol).

For ADD/ADHD medications like Adderall, its been documented that people with ADHD have lower levels of dopamine, so they do not get the same effects someone without ADHD would. However, I believe this theory can apply to opioids too, since there is a "need" for the mu agonists vs a "want".

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

I really wish that there was a definitive answer to this, different research is leading down different paths and there is even the theory that different drugs have different mechanisms to producing addiction, not helpful! I haven't provided a reference here because I'm on my tablet and it's not proven research, I hope that's ok.

I have been taking meds (mainly opioids) for over 7 years and although I am physically dependent on them, once I am passed wds I don't struggle with not taking them...and I love that warm, fuzzy euphoria. I chase it sometimes and other times I just use my meds for pain. Is it the pain that stops addiction? And I have had terribly low places where life is not fulfilling and I do chase a high, but I only usually do it occasionally.

I've read some stuff suggestive of this but I'm yet to be convinced because I have done the same with smoking, I really enjoy it and can smoke for months and then just quit even though I do miss it. I also love, love ketamine but maybe no addiction stems from lack of supply.

I have met (in hospital for dependence, them, not me) others who cannot hoarde a pill and really suffer at the hands of addiction - even if they no longer achieve euphoria, they can't help but chase it. Yet I also know others like me, my mum is one and I have another friend that chips away, she ran through hundreds of pills of oxy over 48 hours but once the 'supply' was gone she didn't seek even though her father uses.

I don't know if anyone can shed light here. I wish humans were morehomogeneous, it would make understanding addiction so much easier.

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I concur with Logicandreason and Blight12 posts above but wrote the below before realising there was a third page of comments so I will still share rather than rewrite (I need to catch up on my sleep me-thinks) even though much was covered in these two posts.
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I think that education can play a huge role as well (both of the individual and those close to them so each individual can give their best to finding a solution for that individual). If you had the level of knowledge of some people (often those in lower socioeconomic areas as previously stated in the thread who suffer through personality, health, environment, lack of positive influences or misfortune (and of course continual drug misuse compounds all of these factors) than your level of addiction would likely be higher.

Once (fingers crossed) the war against drugs fiscal waste is channelled into scientific research than we can find more effective solutions for individuals as the bigger picture emerges.

It was only through the wisdom of other people/generosity of sharing their personal experiences that I was able to beat my very heavy addiction to alcohol (I was heading for death within a decade at the best case scenario I believe). I used meta-cognition (as Polarbearsarecool mentioned) which surely can be taught to some degree over time for most people and it was a change of view (albeit resulting from use of psychedelics, which won't necessarily work for others as good as a tool they have been for me) which enabled me to start making changes. I am more watchful of my other drug use know and will be looking to reduce over time as change my mind to my liking.

I have also found it beneficial to present myself with the argument that if I wait to use weed or lsd (which can be hard as I don't see many negatives from a relatively short period of use) than my tolerance will be decreased so I will enjoy it more and more importantly I reduce self-harm to hopefully live a longer life.

Good luck to you and your mother, I hope everyone on these forums can weigh in on these matters as much as they are able even if it is small non-intrusive advice (for particularly unreceptive people) or educating friends and family.

We can make a change even as we struggle with lessening resources on the planet and we can work around those who are less educated/prejudiced by old fashions (and unfortunately that is often politicians in my own country Australia and many others, Flynnal I somewhat understand your outrage).

 

[Paracosm]

Hi,
this is my first post on the forum and in regards to the original post,
I have an interest in this area as im sure alot of people do... at blu light forum.

But what I think is interesting is that different theories for how or why people get addicted (Self-medication theories, Genetic(predication) theories and also theories of the nature of emotion (e.g james-lange theory or Cannon-Bard) all still include this concept of have critical points and periods of time (for both/either the acquisition of an addiction or childhood/developmental periods where a cause may lie or a reason for a persons resilience of getting addicted to a drug.
The explorative behaviour has been looked at in terms of dopamine circuits/reward systems... here is a nice pop science article with still some terminology on an interesting biological gene relating to novel/reward seeking pathways, well its not that simple - check it out for yourself really nice read in my opinion. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/restless-genes/dobbs-text

Another nice article by the same author, about the teenage brain - the developing and obviously critical period of where we have many of our first experiences that help us glue our lives together - http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text

Sorry for the long post,
All the best,
Paracosm

 

[Hiltoniano]

For me, it was only once I had been mildly ( however mild it can be...) addicted to methamp, and separately morphine. I only understood the signs leading to the addiction in hindsight. But now, because of my experience, I can catch myself having the "addict thoughts" (aka scheming and planning to get high, without consciously thinking "I wanna get high" ) its like an unconscious urge being acted on. Now I can stop myself before it gets out of hand, but I always struggle with self control and constantly have to fight the urge to get high as fuck.

Having weed around at all times helps tremendously, as it gives me something to get high off of, without really being detrimental to my life. So i end up blazed instead of nodding or tweaked out. I wonder why I have this urge to get high all the time, I always try and find out the WHY before I get high, just to know my reasons are justifiable. Of course I always end up breaking my policy of self control, if I keep that up I will lose it all and end up fucked in the end.... win some and lose some?

 

[nogood]

i too dont have addiction issues ive done more drugs than i can count but feel zero dependency on any of em i did roxies for a straight month stopped cold turkey and had zero withdrawals now i do have a severe case of adhd (classed 7 out of 9) and the possibility that i have next to zero dopamine in my body hence relaxation is hard to achieve but caffeine definetly does help odd right? i do smoke cigs but when i dont have them i dont feel a need to go out buy more never have i chosen a high over food or something that i actually need i was straight edge til i was 18 so maybe im hardwired differently idk