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Discussion Why are there no treatments for cocaine and meth addiction?

Not sure, was laughed about a lot on US television a while back. But there was info on 2.3 million spent injecting beagle puppies with cocaine, from multiple sources
 
Jnowhere said:
But there was info on 2.3 million spent injecting beagle puppies with cocaine, from multiple sources
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Pretty sure that's another wing nut conspiracy theory. Articles (all from sketchy sources) I've found about this alleged study cite costs ranging from $1.6 million to $2.5 million, but they all say the experiment lasted about one year and involved 44 puppies.

Something doesn't add up.
 
$2.3MIL was what source I read which, is intween.
hard to find chimp thing, but it was all over our news years ago.
 
I'm skeptical of the ability of a Cocaine addict to moderate their own usage. Telling a Crack Head when and how he can get high is a recipe for failure. The only method I could conceive of that might work would be some kind of Controlled-Release formulation for the Cocaine; taking any kind of choice in the matter out of the addict's hands. We don't really have a lot of data regarding Cocaine rationing.

I have more hope for a Methamphetamine addict to respond positively to high-dose Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) or similar. Cocaine's duration of action makes it inherently difficult to regulate. In my experience, a Crack Addict will smoke any and all Crack given him/her.
 
jasperkent said:
Pretty sure that's another wing nut conspiracy theory. Articles (all from sketchy sources) I've found about this alleged study cite costs ranging from $1.6 million to $2.5 million, but they all say the experiment lasted about one year and involved 44 puppies.

Something doesn't add up.
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Work on your math skills
 
I think it needs to be clarified what we are talking about when say "treatment". Medications for opioid use disorder (including the agonists methadone and buprenorphine, and antagonist naltrexone) when used for opioid agonist therapy/treatment are often prescribed for maintenance. Treatment can mean providing a medication as maintenance (i.e. for as long as the individual needs) or used in opioid withdrawal management or detoxification. For methamphetamine, outcomes with stimulants such as lisdexamphetamine, methylphenidate and modafinal have been suboptimal. Contingency management works as a behavioral intervention but again, not as maintenance. I'd be interested to see methamphetamine hydrochloride (sold under the brand name Desoxyn) explored as a potential avenue. Findings from a recent cross-sectional survey in Canada suggests that methamphetamine (Desoxyn) would be a preferred option for stimulant safe supply.

Keif' Richards said:
I have more hope for a Methamphetamine addict to respond positively to high-dose Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) or similar.
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Definitely more More research definitely needed!
 
The safe supply program here in Canada does give out drugs for stim addiction. Typically methylphenidate for crack addiction and Vyanse adderall and Dexedrine for people who do crystal
 
OntarioGuy said:
The safe supply program here in Canada does give out drugs for stim addiction. Typically methylphenidate for crack addiction and Vyanse adderall and Dexedrine for people who do crystal
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Just curious, why would it be methyllphenidate for crack, and not Adderal or Dexedrine? (or methylphenidate for crystal?)
 
Sorry, to burst your bubble, but governments do all sorts of horrible cruel things to animals all the time and then the private sector, with government grants and permits.
 
chippermonk said:
Just curious, why would it be methyllphenidate for crack, and not Adderal or Dexedrine? (or methylphenidate for crystal?)
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I think it’s because Methylphenidate has more of a re-uptake inhibitor action on dopamine and norepinephrine like Cocaine, where as the traditional amphetamines act by releasing dopamine and norepinephrine. So, MTP acts more like cocaine to exert its effects, where as Vyvanse,Adderall, Dexedrine all work in the same manner as the crystal meth available on the street
 
Mysterier said:
www.nbcnews.com

Why are there no treatments for cocaine and meth addiction?

Amid warnings about rising stimulant use disorders, the FDA is urging drugmakers to develop treatments for cocaine and methamphetamine addiction.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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They're actually are. But doctors don't want to prescribe them because It is difficult to use them as stimulant prophylaxis.

Talking about alpha blockers, beta blockers, gabapentinoids, (some)NMDA antagonists, buproprion and low dose naltrexone.

Adrenergic and dopaminergic blockade abolishes the positive subjective effects for both cocaine and amphetamine type stimulants.

Fenfluramine and duloxetine blockade the serotonergic and some dopaminergic response to stimulants and actually reduce their use/abuse.

Dopamine antagonists and alpha/ beta or combined adrenergic blockers like lobetalol, carvedilol, etc, combined with low dose naltrexone has been shown to be effective in blocking the subjective effects of cocaine and methamphetamines, as well as preventing the unwanted cardiovascular and sympathetic nervous system effects.

BUPROPION COMBINED WITH NALTREXONE

Combination treatment for methamphetamine use disorder shows promise in NIH study

Therapy may be a promising addition to current approaches to treatment.
www.nih.gov www.nih.gov

Basically if you put somebody on a low dose of risperidol, duloxetine and/or fenfluramine, (possibly bupropion as well) lobetalol or carvedilol, and low dose naltrexone, You would simultaneously reduce or prevent cravings as well as abolish any positive subjective effects from the use of amphetamine, methamphetamine, MDMA, etc.

Basically, an enormous dose would be required to elicit any positive subjective effects.

There would be no more positive reinforcement and abstinence as well as counseling could support recovery from addiction.
 
Bupropion is one treatment for cocaine addiction. I think methylphenidate is sometimes prescribed for it as well.

I know someone who got addicted to meth and was given dextroamphetamine to treat it. So there are treatments out there for stimulant addiction.
 
paranoid android said:
Bupropion is one treatment for cocaine addiction. I think methylphenidate is sometimes prescribed for it as well.

I know someone who got addicted to meth and was given dextroamphetamine to treat it. So there are treatments out there for stimulant addiction.
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Yeah there's also low dose naltrexone, risperidol, some other dopamine antagonists, fenfluramine (also reduces alcohol consumption), some NMDA receptor antagonists, alpha beta blockers, etc.

Oh yeah and duloxetine
 
Maybe Wellbutrin and Dextroamphetamine would help, by like a decent amount.
 
Hexenstahl said:
I'd like to add that weight training does wonders for stim addiction. Whenever I had cravings for coke (which was extremely rare since I'm more of a downer type) I did some high intensity interval training (weight lifting, sit ups, pushups, etc. until I nearly collapsed) for 15 minutes and the rush and sudden libido I got pretty much eliminated my desire for stims. For some reason I get super horny when I do this and when I'm done with "it" I have no desire for either coke or amps anymore.

However, the idea to have some kind of substitution for stim addicts who can't or don't want to do this is a good idea. Maybe if the pharmaceutical industry put some resources into the R&D of a coke analog that has a high oral BA and long half life, they could use this to quench cocaine cravings. Basically a kind of methadone for cokeheads.
A stim addiction however isn't as perennial as an opioid addiction. I see how maintenance for dope fiends makes more sense because dope is something you'll never forget, but meth, coke and stims of all kind are eventually "forgotten" and lose their hold on you somewhat if you can manage to abstain from it for a long enough time. Opioids are completely different. They become a part of your soul and who you are.
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With all do respect, taking a crackhead too the gym, will only result in stolen gym equipment.
 
Jnowhere said:
With all do respect, taking a crackhead too the gym, will only result in stolen gym equipment.
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I once had a crackhead try to sell me a hot water knob :LOL:
We don't have many crackheads in Germany though. Never knew why...
 
jasperkent said:
Pretty sure that's another wing nut conspiracy theory.
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Yeah JN likes to put unrelated political nonsense in a lot of posts. And most nutty conspiracy stuff. There I said it. Not talking about this thread,, but how do do people go into a thread and bring politics into it if it has nothing to do with it. Is the rehab issues Bidens fault? And trump will fix it? That is the type garbage that ruins threads. Put that in the political forum. I know sometimes politics does factor into threads, but not every topic is political. Saying that I know some people feel the "establishment" wants them dead and flooded the streets with fentanyl. So that could factor into topics. (oh and nothing irritates me more than when news people call it fentanol. It is FENTANYL. NIL, not NOL. Learn how to pronounce it news people.)

As far as rehabs go the model from 1990 has to be changed. And right now I do not trust any doctors or nurses to know anything but the rehab rhetoric of the 90's. We have tranq dope now that needs addressing and understanding. We have ketamine addictions proving even psychological addictions can tear a person apart. Although we knew that with cocaine before as stated in this thread. We have benzos much stronger than what is prescribed and just going to Reddit shows how far down that rabbit hole a lot of people went and now do not know what to do. All of this stuff needs knowledge and addressing. The current rehabs now only give a person time to get away from the drug and get their footing. But when people on a large benzo habit go in the rehabs taper for a few days and then CT. That is no way to do that. People here know that can be damaging. There really has to be some more knowledge on these subjects.

But like all things the rehab is here to make money off of people. Not sure how much they care about individual people. I have no doubt some counselors try and help and understand. Some are good. Some just strange. I was in a rehab at Keystone (Chester Penn) in 1990. I actually had a counselor that wanted us to talk our truths. But she would not tell us what her issue was. Unbelievable. I can write a book on that rehab experience. I may start a thread as that 30 days a lot happened.
 
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