• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Why are the following 2 "disorders" even thought of as disorders?

Hyperthermia is a chronic condition, whereas hypomania is often temporary (it usually progresses to mania).

They are classified as disorders because they can cause problems for those afflicted with symptoms...they are minor versions of mania. Admittedly a bit of hypomania can be an asset in some people, but that is not universal.
 
Hyperthermia is a chronic condition, whereas hypomania is often temporary (it usually progresses to mania).

They are classified as disorders because they can cause problems for those afflicted with symptoms...they are minor versions of mania. Admittedly a bit of hypomania can be an asset in some people, but that is not universal.

I'd guess you mean hyperthymia?

What kind of problems can they cause (other than potentially increased risk taking)? I would've thought a hypomaniac would be more efficient and driven to achieve whatever he/she needs to and thus more productive?
 
Hyperthymia isn't classified as a disorder according to WP.
 
Yeah I don't get the concept of hypomania too. Used to believe in these diagnoses when I was younger and it did no good to me (don't go to therapy when you're young and have low self esteem ... life is the best therapy, but had to learn this the hard way). I do now think of hypomania being a desirable state of positive energetic happiness - be it drug induced or not, like when you've achieved something long desired or are in love ... there are endless exciting possibilities in this state, and you can achieve so much in such a short time - I truly appreciate these moments and miss them deeply on the other days.

It's an absurdity so see happiness as a disorder if you think about it. This can become life damaging if used wrong (e.g. by psychiatrists who 'try to keep you down'- dopamine antagonists for shy, depressed people who just discovered life by accident!) I know there are graduations but the main difference is between mania or not mania.
 
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I'd guess you mean hyperthymia?

What kind of problems can they cause (other than potentially increased risk taking)? I would've thought a hypomaniac would be more efficient and driven to achieve whatever he/she needs to and thus more productive?


Yeah...autocorrect fail

What kinds of problems does hypomania cause? Impulse control issues, irritability, overconfidence, distractability, sleep deprivation...

People don't stay in a hypomanic state...it progresses to something else. Although aspects of hypomania may be good, those good things are vastly offset by all the other problems caused by bipolar disorder.

I don't know much about hyperthymia -- I don't think it is a disorder, but actually more of a description of someone's personality.
 
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What kinds of problems does hypomania cause? Impulse control issues, irritability, overconfidence, distractability, sleep deprivation...

People don't stay in a hypomanic state...it progresses to something else. Although aspects of hypomania may be good, those good things are vastly offset by all the other problems caused by bipolar disorder.

Are people in a 100% hypomanic state observed at all? Or is hypomania always accompanied by depressive stages as in bipolar disorder? Does hypomania always progress to mania (or what else does it progress to?), and over what average time frame?
 
I do now think of hypomania being a desirable state of positive energetic happiness - be it drug induced or not, like when you've achieved something long desired or are in love ... there are endless exciting possibilities in this state, and you can achieve so much in such a short time - I truly appreciate these moments and miss them deeply on the other days.

Speaking from experience too I don't think hypomania resembles a state of satisfaction or being in love at all which have this component of feeling fulfilled and peaceful. Hypomania is increased motivation in a way but accompanied by uneasiness, irritability, lack of control, feeling over-stimulated, having twisted judgement and thus bad decision-making etc.
 
It's a matter of definition. Probably you're right about the definition of hypomania, what you're describing is more accurate but quite some (by experience) professionals think otherwise. I know this state just too good, it's how I usually feel when not depressed & not on a NMDA antagonist - but due to the need of diagnosis, I began to define this as AD(H)D-like behavior. It wasn't just once, but repeatedly that professionals wanted to or actually put me onto dopamine antagonists when I began to feel good, which is quite rare for me naturally. Needless to say, antagonizing dopamine is no good when you don't need it, and it makes me even more restless but also anhedonic (and at some occasions even truly freaking out).

There are many graduations but being in satisfaction, positive-minded, calm, yet euphoric is just the ideal state and probably few people can experience that more than coincidentally. I myself am mostly either stimulated or lethargic, and quite happy when the energy state fits with the rest of my mind, e.g. stimulated and energetic or lethargic and fatigued. Mixed states are annoying and exhausting. One can learn (to some extent) how to use the energy, I'm not really there yet but at least I will do something productive like reading up about things that interest me, or write here etc ... this leads to some kind of reward too.

For me, the real border is where the ability to stay in control ends. This is hard to explain.. imagine drinking alcohol. As long as you stay within your limits, everything is okay, you get some effects - depending on you, from slight disinhibition to real drunkenness - but if you drink too much, something breaks off and you loose control. Consciousness sets in again some hours later, and you can't believe what you've done (or thought, if you remember it)-sometimes it's just a big black-out and nothing serious happened. The same thing with a different quality applies to psychotic breaks and to true mania, at least for me. There is no chance to stay in control, as if your brain takes you over for a while, if this makes any sense. Sounds crazy, I know, but can't explain it better.

Happened rarely luckily, and would have scared me at a younger age, but that's how it is.
 
Are people in a 100% hypomanic state observed at all? Or is hypomania always accompanied by depressive stages as in bipolar disorder? Does hypomania always progress to mania (or what else does it progress to?), and over what average time frame?

Bipolar Not Otherwise Specified (NOS) can involve hypomania without periods of depression.

Examples of progressions:
Hypomania > mania
Hypomania > depression

The time frame is patient specific.
 
I definitely think that I got hypomania from when I first started on Lyrica (did not hear my psychiatrist of the time contradicting this), it actually lasted quite a while and did not progress to mania - it subsided. I guess it is the combination of loss of inhibition and high level of enthousiasm. While generally very enjoyable and useful, I did notice that I was at risk of being much more loose financially so I really had to keep that in check. It was a problem - or more of an issue than a problem - but compared to mania it was manageable in my case.

While I don't see these as disorders that would be diagnosed very seriously by your psychiatrist, they can still have a negative influence on your functioning. So technically it is sound within the definition, but it does stretch the limits of the semantics I'd agree with you.

What is especially confusing is that the term hypomania suggests IMO that it is mania but not at a level serious enough to be called a disorder.

(I also get hypomania as a standard effect of the 3-MeO-PCP that I frequently take low doses of. Fully expected as mania is known as an effect but dose-dependent.)

Under DSM-IV, there is 'bipolar not otherwise specified' and this includes type 4 in the bipolar spectrum suggested by Akiskal in 'Primary Psychiatry' - it is defined as depression superimposed over hyperthymic personality.

In any case, the latter can definitely get people into trouble - taking on more than they can handle on various facets of life. It's not like you can never be cheerful enough or something like that.
 
Yes, this is what I meant :) hypomania needs care, but once one gets to know it and leans how to stay in control, it's a nice state. Specially the disinhibition but also general motivation is really estimable and enjoyable if you ask me.. that's what people drink alcohol for, just without all the negatives.

Pregabalin can do that, unfortunately for me only when dosing high and very occasionally. I'm really curious about the mechanisms, made a thread about it (the PCP mania, but think we didn't find a real answer) - I think now it could be AMPA++, dopamine+, GABA-, NMDA+/-. mu might also be involved.

The arylcyclohexylamines are quite reliable in inducing these states. Bipolar people have to be very careful with dissociatives probably. 3-MeO-PCP is the most powerful I know of, it's able to push me into full-on mania (without psychosis, but this is a thin border). Have to think about an interview with the inventor of MXE who reported much the same, and according to him PCP must be even more manic- MXE was really the gold standard for me, it was ideally balanced out and did not induce irrational behavior at all when dosed correctly. 2'-OxO-PCE is interesting, would have to research it more. It's definitely disinhibiting and much more mellow than 3-MeO-PCP. Makes me curious about 3-MeO-PCE
 
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I have been wondering lately if it is possible to induce a bipolar disorder from dissociative use?

Doesn't necessarily seem so likely just like borderline isn't just something you pick up, but still the mania - I wonder what the consequences can be from going so up and down. Differently from taking uppers and downers, hardly think it is likely that sets of chronic clinical depression.

In other words: if the genetic factors aren't really there - can environmental factors ultimately be enough like that?
 
The brain is so impressibly flexible and with these billions of neurons I can imagine that it's possible to (re)wire just anything.

Interesting that you mention borderline personality :) I happen to know quite a few such people (including myself, and somehow we seem to attract others out of the masses from time to time.. it's just too much to be pure coincidence) but haven't dealt with the topic for a long time now.. just recently stumbled upon a paper about the neuroscience of borderline and that it's mediated by NMDA receptor dysfunction (what a surprise once again), posted it here but some time ago. Also seems to overlap with adult ADHD (glutamate -> dopamine connection?). Remarkable and scary here is that the AMPA antagonists all over have crazy side effects listed like homicidal ideation and violence. This makes me think that AMPA currents are pro-emotional, introspective etc. and NMDA has some bad sides, but they can't exist without each other. Curiously enough for me dissociation doesn't mean at all that I would feel less, just differently, in a positive way.

Somehow I think that borderline is a primarily environment-triggered thing, there are some requirements like emotionality - psychopaths won't get borderline for sure - the more intense, the more at risk probably but depending on that, it's usually about early negative violent social experiences like abuse etc.

But this is just my theorizing, I'm too very interested what others think about. Would be nice if I could somehow acquire the hypomania and have it naturally. The depression is already there, so why not.

A real point is that my personality and especially reaction to numerous drugs has changed significantly over the last years, I don't know it for sure of course but somehow I attribute this to my dissociative use. Regarding the personality, I'd say I've come much closer to being 'who I really am' - less split, rigid and awkward, shy and all that.. more in peace with myself. Unfortunately this isn't permanent without chemical aid .. if there only was a possibility to down-regulate these damn NMDA receptors (don't know for sure whether this would fix it though, but I think it's much more than a 50% chance).
 
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