Why are some people scared to take psychedelic substances?

[Kl519]

Title of the thread. Y'all know I rarely start threads, and I had searched for a similar thread but I couldn't find one. Yet I feel like this is somewhat of an important question.

I can understand if it's a dangerous substance, like datura, or even a long lasting one like DOM or something. Hell, I could understand the classic lsd itself being avoided because I had some bad trips on that one myself too, although obviously I wasn't scared to use it because I kept using it afterwards anyway.

I'll even put personal obligations being so important that one doesn't want to risk anything at all, like if you were a caregiver, had an important job title, just had a child or something like that. One would want to be in the most rational and reasonable state at all times, and that's something I would wholeheartedly agree with too.

And just for argument's sake, let's pretend they're on a new, remote part of the Earth where all substances are legal (since that may be a definite reason people are scared of them).

But let's just say one is interested in drugs and is able to maximize their set and setting to its most comfortable state. They have no problems getting their stuff and is of sound enough mind to take it. This person happens to be enamored with substances, but refuses to try even something like, hmm, 4-HO-MiPT or 2C-B. My question is, why? At reasonable doses, it's not like one has to worry about any physical harm whatsoever. Even if it seems too powerful with the way one's perception can be extremely altered, all one has to do is wait 6 hours or so. If one takes care and sets up everything right, it's a hugely enjoyable experience that can't really be found anywhere else.

It's not that I think substances are the best things ever created; there's so much life has to offer even when sober. But I've known quite a few people who were/are scared to take any psychedelic even though it interested them enough to want to, and with me being me I never asked any of them why specifically. From my point of view, as long as everything is set up right and you know what you're doing, there's absolutely nothing to be scared about! I've had so much fun that I couldn't imagine being scared to trip; and most of these substances create such a strong euphoria that fear doesn't even exist really.

(Is it just because it's an altered state? Alcohol and weed do that too though...)

So I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this. I'm sure there are a lot of you that know people that would fit into this equation too, so some thoughts and input would be great to read.

 

[Solipsis]

Loss of control and fear for the unknown.

Compare that even if you've never taken uppers or downers before, it's relatively easy to imagine They pretty much do as advertised, and mental effects are relatively minor while with psychedelics it's core business. Nothing can beat an actual experience, but with psychedelics it's harder to know fully what to expect, or rather pretty much impossible. With DMT taking the cake, being hard to imagine even if you are very familiar with psychedelics incl DMT itself already.
Plus each experience tends to be different / unique... for weed that's only partially true (it is a bit psychedelic, which accounts for that), and alcohol is relatively the same every time. Or, what makes alcohol experiences unique is ultimately hardly ever attributed to the alcohol, but to what you do during the experience - which doesn't really count.

Duration of effects isn't really always hugely important. I am personally much more hesitant to take short acting psychedelics that hardly ever fail to blow my mind like serious tryptamines, than long acting clearheaded semi functional psychedelics. Also even if there is chance of 5 minutes of agony, I don't think the majority of people is willing to ignore the agony, the more intense the more true. It's always weighed against payoff / curiosity. I am personally quite uninterested in salvia for reasons that adhere to things I mention.

Your rationalizations don't really appeal to irrational fears.

I don't care for trying drugs like deliriants, if I would ever try them super reliable and capable supervision for the whole duration would be essential... also if I look at my most anxious moments facing ego dissolution, it's pretty irrational why I would want to escape / avoid that confrontation when it comes down to it. It's not always the known unknowns: what we can expect or imagine to go wrong, but also often the unknown unknowns: what we haven't even considered.

At some point your rational approach breaks down and gut feelings take over. Some people rely heavily on intuition to begin with, and find themselves even harder to bargain with.

 

[TheAppleCore]

I have the same question, Kl519. I really don't know. I think it must stem from the fear of going insane.

What really baffles me is why cannabis is so much more popular than the classical psychedelics like LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin. Cannabis derails me into paranoid thinking more easily; it feels more intoxicating, as it more readily impairs short-term memory and general cognitive functions; and it took much longer for me to begin to appreciate the effects of cannabis. Serotonergic psychedelics, on the other hand, are more easily controlled, more clear-headed, and instantly rewarding.

I must be the weird one.

 

[Clocktower]

The reason will be different for every person. At some point, it's just a matter of taste. Some people enjoy drugs, others don't. Some people enjoy some drugs but not others. Some people enjoy exploration and trying new things, others don't.

Remember that all drugs affect different people in different ways. When I started using LSD, I was amazed. I thought that everyone in the world should experience what I'd experienced, because it had changed my life in such a positive way. I've since learned that not everyone experiences the drug in the same way I do.

Not everyone will enjoy tripping as much as you do. Not everyone need necessarily find it as harmless as you do. Some people might know themselves well enough to know that they're better off abstaining.

When push comes to shove, there is always some risk, however small, to taking illegal and understudied drugs. You can't fault people for wanting to avoid that, especially if they're not all that excited about tripping in the first place.

 

[Xorkoth]

I remember back before I had first tried a psychedelic drug... I was afraid to try them, excited, but also afraid. They have a reputation for being really intense, and the idea of a "bad trip" is one everyone has heard of and probably been warned against. I knew several people who had tried them and had difficult experiences so told me I shouldn't do it. It was basically a fear of the unknown, coupled with words of warning from a variety of sources.

Once I tried them, I had a healthy respect, but I was no longer afraid, because I had a glorious, beautiful, life-changing experience my first time. I think some people are afraid of psychedelics even after trying them (or especially after trying them actually) because some people have a lot more difficulty than others with giving up (the illusion of) control. I've always had an easy time with that in my life, but some people get very uncomfortable when they don't feel in control. It's these sort of personality types, I think, that tend to experience traumatic trips. Psychedelics really aren't for everybody.

 

[Solipsis]

Agreed, recognizable factors there Xorkoth..

The exact reasons almost certainly vary between people, especially the biggest reason that seems the most transparent or decisive one. But I think I've noticed, for example over time here on the forum and speaking for myself, that the more I trip the less big of a deal it is, the more vibrant the memory is of what it is like to trip and what is so unthreatening and relieving about it once you pierce through the illusory fear about it that are not inherent to the psychedelic but to our own primal fears, for dying, losing control, going insane... all of which are types of losing oneself and what we know ourselves to be and to have. That sense melded together and the softening that comes with psychedelia is by the way at the core of that whole 'ego death' thing.

But the less I trip / the longer I haven't tripped anymore... the more anxious I start to get about it once again - the more irrational and illusory my thoughts about it can become again, having nothing to go on. Fading memories, and faded novelty. But in return, the chance for novelty in the trip are excellent again (more magic!), and I don't think that's *just* tolerance / up or downregulation, but also the purely psychological matter of feeling like you have something to lose again. Which is strangely new and exciting.

That's what makes me think that it's not completely an individual preference, but also a shift that can happen in one person. I think even people who love psychedelics can have reasons to be scared of them, just much less so (or instantly compensated by the awe and curiosity), but possibly reasons that are at their core similar to the reasons people have who are deeply scared of them.

A difficult matter is whether say a person with OCD has more to lose or to gain from tripping. If the person can actually let go during the trip, it's that much more of a personal triumph, even more than for the average person. But if the terror is unsurmountable and that therapeutic process too much of a challenge, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that strongly feeds into fears and traumata.

Cannabis seems structurally underestimated, it's easy to forget how terrifying a cannabis OD is. At the same time tolerance is common and very pronounced. Also possibly related to the fact that cannabis can be used really habitually.
Maybe a factor is that cannabis isn't so extremely demonized? It's physical safeness is more well-known and taken as a reassurance is it not? On the contrary, it has accepted medical value while classical psychedelics are still mostly shunned. It all doesn't completely make sense if you really pay closer attention, but neither is e.g. the assumptions people make about salvia, eyeballing it even after learning it's potentials.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I think largely because the possibility of negative side effects and a bad trip are falsely overemphasized in popular culture.
Before I tried mushrooms for the first time all I had heard about was an equal mixture of amazing trips and horrendous trips, consequently when I tried them I had my only bad trip that I have ever had in my entire course of taking psychedelic substances.
Sure I've had uncomfortable trips, depressing trips, and trips that were too powerful for my liking, but I have never had a complete loss of control and rational thought like I had that very first trip.
I attribute that trip to these social contexts which inexperienced or ignorant people normally discuss psychedelics.
Now that I am in social circles who love psyches as much as I do uncomfortable trips are mostly a thing of the past, adding validity I believe to the importance of mindset when experimenting with psychedelics.

 

[spandex]

Different 'heads' for different drugs - I love psychedelics, but didn't start them til mid-30s, by which time I'd had a fair experience of life and was able to keep fairly grounded, despite god-realisation levels of experience, i.e., it don't get no bigger, but I have real problems with weed, even more so with skunk - had 3 experiences of folks trying to give me CPR due to blood pressure dropping through the floor with relatively minor doses (blue lips 'n' all that), so now leave the weed well alone. I have many friends who smoke skunk like regular tobacco and one who would rather poke his eyes out with sharp needles than take half a tab of quality acid. - I think popular media promotes weed as a common thing, everyone's on it and it's fine and acid is the work of the devil which will definitely cause you to see massive spiders appearing out of your wallpaper and you will totally lose control. I know from many conversations that the prospect of loss of control is a major deterrent to many folks.
The only time I have problems of a negative type with psyches occur when I am confronted with the law whilst tripping. As a relatively law abiding citizen, I find the magnifying effects of psyches magnify my guilt (bought up a catholic) and I really have to fight hard to stop things going tits-up. As I get older the philosophy of "ah f'ckit" is taking over and helps me deal with it

 

[nuube]

Years of negative propaganda telling people they will jump out of buildings or end up schizophrenic after taking acid once.

Apart from those I suppose the length of the trips can be a bit much and getting stuck on a bad trip for several hours might deter those of a less risk taking mind set.

The social setting where a lot of drug use happens, be it pub or club or play, don't necessarily suit the use of psychedelics than say alcohol or cannabis.

 

[burn out]

it isnt true that "all one has to do is wait 6 hours". seriously bad trips can traumatize you such that it takes way that it takes months to recover. furthermore, psychedelics can show you things about yourself you might not want to know or might not be ready to see. and further still and im paraphrasing shulgin on this, sometimes psychedelics can show you things about reality that can irreversible changes in your perception and shulgin said this has happened to him a few times (and speaking from experience it has also happened to me). what is more scary to the human ego than that?

and then of course there is the much more down to earth fear of just not enjoying the trip. Ive had times when i tripped and then realized i actually wasnt in the mood to be tripping at that time and it was just really annoying having to put up with all the psychedelics effects even if it wasnt horrible of frightening.

 

[Solipsis]

^ That's definitely more down to earth than fear of perverted alien telepathy...

But yeah the duration sentiment is important, a misconception fixed 'best' by having experienced terrifying time dilation our soulrapey agony. Or any DMT trip I suppose?
I know traumatizing trips that take a long ass time to recover from, and so do friends of mine.

 

[maxload]

To be fair I don't think the altered state of alcohol or weed are in the same league as most psychedelics. While you can do some stupid shit on them, particularly when drunk, the intense nature of a strong trip is far more uncontrollable.

Personally I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing that people consider psychedelics with greater apprehension. A greater proportion of the population are simply not suitable candidates to take a lot of these drugs. A healthy respect and perhaps a realisation that they shouldn't trip at all would definitely prevent a lot of misadventures that occur.

I would dread the day where psychedelic use was an unregulated free for all because I personally believe that any psychedelic experiment requires proper preparation and planning, both emotionally and logistically. How many misadventures to to hear about that involved unexpected trips with little consideration to the level of dosing in relation to their environment? Losing ones mind on a strong dose is easier to deal with at home compared to taking too much while in public. While I appreciate that the risks are low of physical harm, a healthy level of apprehension or fear will often temper a potentially regretful experience.

 

[Solipsis]

That type of 'free use' would require a lot of informing and guidance, perhaps involving careful introductions or something like that... but to be honest, here in the netherlands you can buy psilocybian fungi in smartshops and apart from drunk tourists, people handle that availability okay.

Doesn't mean there wouldn't be trouble initially when a repressive country would suddenly legalize psychedelics - people have to get used to it, not suddenly exposed - that switch would leave the 'logistics' unprepared on a mass scale.
So that day where psychedelic use would be 'unregulated' legally just has to follow a previous phase of preparation and education, the fair type by experience-experts.

The regulation that is really important is the planning of a trip like you say, no matter how you got the drug.

 

[nuube]

I have the same question, Kl519. I really don't know. I think it must stem from the fear of going insane.

What really baffles me is why cannabis is so much more popular than the classical psychedelics like LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin. Cannabis derails me into paranoid thinking more easily; it feels more intoxicating, as it more readily impairs short-term memory and general cognitive functions; and it took much longer for me to begin to appreciate the effects of cannabis. Serotonergic psychedelics, on the other hand, are more easily controlled, more clear-headed, and instantly rewarding.

I must be the weird one.

I found the exact same thing. I used to take acid and thoroughly enjoy it couldn't understand the whole 'bad trip' thing. Cannabis was a different beast from the unease in company to the all out paranoid attack it could wipe me out far easier than acid or mushrooms.

 

[Kl519]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'll be reading them now, and at the moment I don't really have an opinion yet but I'll be absorbing all of yours. Thanks.

 

[Kl519]

Loss of control and fear for the unknown.

Compare that even if you've never taken uppers or downers before, it's relatively easy to imagine They pretty much do as advertised, and mental effects are relatively minor while with psychedelics it's core business. Nothing can beat an actual experience, but with psychedelics it's harder to know fully what to expect, or rather pretty much impossible. With DMT taking the cake, being hard to imagine even if you are very familiar with psychedelics incl DMT itself already.
Plus each experience tends to be different / unique... for weed that's only partially true (it is a bit psychedelic, which accounts for that), and alcohol is relatively the same every time. Or, what makes alcohol experiences unique is ultimately hardly ever attributed to the alcohol, but to what you do during the experience - which doesn't really count.

Duration of effects isn't really always hugely important. I am personally much more hesitant to take short acting psychedelics that hardly ever fail to blow my mind like serious tryptamines, than long acting clearheaded semi functional psychedelics. Also even if there is chance of 5 minutes of agony, I don't think the majority of people is willing to ignore the agony, the more intense the more true. It's always weighed against payoff / curiosity. I am personally quite uninterested in salvia for reasons that adhere to things I mention.

Your rationalizations don't really appeal to irrational fears.

I don't care for trying drugs like deliriants, if I would ever try them super reliable and capable supervision for the whole duration would be essential... also if I look at my most anxious moments facing ego dissolution, it's pretty irrational why I would want to escape / avoid that confrontation when it comes down to it. It's not always the known unknowns: what we can expect or imagine to go wrong, but also often the unknown unknowns: what we haven't even considered.

At some point your rational approach breaks down and gut feelings take over. Some people rely heavily on intuition to begin with, and find themselves even harder to bargain with.

I had thought of this too, specifically the fear of the unknown, but I liked the way you put it instead of how it was framed in my mind. I kind of grouped altered states together, but definitely psychedelics are so much stronger on our psyche! Now I kind of see why people approach these chems with fear. I'm trying to take out my personal biases considering that I come from a different mindset, but that's why I asked and I'm enjoying the response, particularly that the irrational cannot be rationalized while tripping.

Thanks.

 

[Kl519]

I have the same question, Kl519. I really don't know. I think it must stem from the fear of going insane.

What really baffles me is why cannabis is so much more popular than the classical psychedelics like LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin. Cannabis derails me into paranoid thinking more easily; it feels more intoxicating, as it more readily impairs short-term memory and general cognitive functions; and it took much longer for me to begin to appreciate the effects of cannabis. Serotonergic psychedelics, on the other hand, are more easily controlled, more clear-headed, and instantly rewarding.

I must be the weird one.

Haha, I would agree with this too. I mean, over the years I've seen so many groups of people that seem to think smoking weed is like a "hardcore thing to do," or even meth/ice for that matter. To me, it's almost like child's play. I had finally found a group some year back that actually gather around to do Psychedelics, and only that one, and lol, shit is so much crazier. People would be IV'ing stuff, snorting ket, smoking DMT and I'm like, "Damn, this is awesome" but I wouldn't even go as far as they do, lol. However, most of the time everyone's happy, friendly and having a good time. I mean, some people lose it on DMT or a high dose of lsd, but it's still a rare occurrence overall. But I really liked chilling with them because they don't act like they're all that, even though they are to me when I see them doing substances like this! As ironic as it is, they seemed more in control and in tune with themselves than both alcohol and cannabis, which is combined all the time too. So yeah, I can't really explain this either. I wouldn't say that you're weird though; what's weird imo is how things seem to be set up this way socially.

I'm a cannabis lover myself yet I've also been KTFO by it too. So I can understand/relate.

 

[Kl519]

I remember back before I had first tried a psychedelic drug... I was afraid to try them, excited, but also afraid. They have a reputation for being really intense, and the idea of a "bad trip" is one everyone has heard of and probably been warned against. I knew several people who had tried them and had difficult experiences so told me I shouldn't do it. It was basically a fear of the unknown, coupled with words of warning from a variety of sources.

Once I tried them, I had a healthy respect, but I was no longer afraid, because I had a glorious, beautiful, life-changing experience my first time. I think some people are afraid of psychedelics even after trying them (or especially after trying them actually) because some people have a lot more difficulty than others with giving up (the illusion of) control. I've always had an easy time with that in my life, but some people get very uncomfortable when they don't feel in control. It's these sort of personality types, I think, that tend to experience traumatic trips. Psychedelics really aren't for everybody.

Hey, what's up Xorkoth? Yeah, I like this too. I guess some personality types fear that loss of control, me included, but probably the ones who are interested in psychedelics, and avoid it, fear it much more than I do! Mine isn't enough to stop me from taking them though.

I see. That's definitely one I hadn't considered, that the stories of bad trips themselves can turn someone completely off even though they're interested! Thanks.

 

[Kaleida]

I enjoy psychedelics more than most people I've ever met, and I find them terrifying.

My idea of extremely altered perception is not something you can just wait out like it's no big deal. The last trip I had that I would describe as "too much" was on 4-HO-MiPT. The sensory overload was causing my vision to zoom in to where it felt like I could watch individual visual distortions forming at near-microscopic levels on the surfaces around me, and it was so intense that I felt like they practically grinding into me. I had the sensation that I could consciously feel my entire skeletal structure and muscle patterns because my senses were so acute that every possible sensory receptor in my body was at the forefront of my awareness, and when I did something like swallowing or breathing I was hyper aware of every action my body was performing to complete the process each time, and it was exhausting. The stimulation caused by it all was also causing my body to be constantly gassy and feel all twisted up inside and giving me a lot of head pressure, neither of which was very fun alongside the level of sensory perception either. And of course, there was extreme time dilation for all of this as well, so it just went on and on....

It probably would have been amazing if not for all of that bodily junk, but for that reason it was pretty difficult to handle for a lot of it, and given that it resulted purely from the perceptual overload I don't consider it to be connected to set or setting or anything like that. I was able to handle it well enough partially because of past experiences and partially because I had alcohol to help me as well, but I would never, ever want a newbie to have that kind of experience.... They'd probably be scared away from psychedelics forever.

I don't think it's a bad thing for people to have some fear about psychedelics, especially when they don't yet know how they'll respond to them. It shouldn't be a matter of not understanding them, it's just about respect. They're really, really powerful, and for some people much more than others. I will admit though that most people probably really do not have much to fear from as you say reasonable doses of normally fairly easygoing psychedelics like those.

I might just be a weird example as well. Personally, I have also had my most dysphoric and most euphoric drug experiences period on cannabis alone; not psychedelics nor the combination of psychedelics and cannabis has touched either for me.

 

[Kl519]

Hmm, I don't want to keep doing multiple posts so I'll consolidate it here. Multi-quote posting is inconvenient on my phone, but I want to get to everyone's input.

Clocktower-Thanks for your response. Did I really come off as finding it as a fault if people are scared of them? I didn't think I was, and I apologize if it seems that way, however I wasn't thinking like that when I made the thread. I was simply trying to understand a mindset that's almost the opposite of mine. That's why I put down valid reasons for why people wouldn't take them, since it may not be linked to fear necessarily. All in all, no worries, it's not a big deal.

I did kind of forget to think about how drugs affect different people differently, at least in this context. Which would probably be linked to the fear of the unknown, but I've definitely known people who wanted to try psychedelics and then tell me they were too scared to try it. So, my question was aimed at that group particularly. Anyway, thanks.

Holy Toast-hmm, I see. So on top of personality types (like one unwilling to take risks like this and such), some people do not have the kind of mindset that is willing to take psychedelics, or even a reason for them to do so. I figured it'd come down to personal preference, but I liked the way you put it.

Spandex-Ah, the good old propaganda, that's true.

Burn out-Well, I would see that both are true, are they not? That would come down to how the individual proceeds to handle the trip. It's definitely over when it's over, yet it is possible to become traumatized by the experience. As someone who has tripped thousands of times and probably had worse bad trips than most people, I kind of see both sides of the coin pretty well. Meaning, I'd tell the people who become traumatized after the experience to just not take the trip too seriously in a bad way, see it as a 6/12 hour trip and nothing more than that, just so they can get over it by marginalizing it. Whether it's a good or bad trip, if the person doesn't seem like they're getting anything beneficial from it, then my advice would be to marginalize the experience itself. That's what I did and it worked perfectly, since some of my bad trips really didn't make much sense and had everything to do with things I couldn't control (eg. losing loved ones to an accident). That was a major theme of one of my terrible trips, unfortunately.

It also seems like you had tripped before without the intent coming from yourself originally, otherwise why would you trip if you weren't in the mood? I mean, I'm not judging it negatively because I've actually been in that position too, peer pressure and all that, however I still liked your input. Some people fear their perception becoming changed, while others don't, and I guess it comes down to personal preference once again. Thanks.

Nuube-That's true. I guess that's why I wouldn't really see groups of people doing psychs, except at parties or my friend's kickback.

Maxload-Thanks for yours too. Psychedelics do need to be taken with a lot more care than weed or alcohol, so that's true.

Okay, I'm kind of done here, unless anyone would like to respond or add anything else. Everyone's response is appreciated.