Which drugs should be classified as soft drugs, other than marijuana?

[JackARoe]

Thank you.

I'd like to think we're born junkies, and we're born guilty.

I'm rather addicted to oxygen.

And I have blood on my hands.

That's what I think too. Brutal honesty.

And I agree. How an anyone label anything? A person's relationship with anything can be worthwhile or devastating regardless of the object.

Funny how looking at things in ways can change.

 

[December Flower]

Define "hard" then define "soft"

hard can fuck you up the arse and soft can't.

in my book, all illegal drugs(including weed) are hard drugs. and many legal ones are too. What I consider a soft drug is stuff like St John's wort, catnip, urtica, chamomile, etc.

 

[dalpat077]

There is one glaring exception . Crack cocaine is almost universally considered a “hard drug “ but I don’t think can be injected (it can, however, be snorted where it acts as an extended release drug , source “intoxication “ by dr Ronald K Siegel)

It can be injected.

As for it being crushed and snorted: only under the most desperate of circumstances. No self-respecting Crack user is going to subject a rock to such ill treatment!

I'd be keen to see that part of said research (given that Crack isn't soluble in water i.e. a weak acid base, at very least, is required) (and which is how it's dissolved for IV purposes).

 

[the_void]

It can be injected.

As for it being crushed and snorted: only under the most desperate of circumstances. No self-respecting Crack user is going to subject a rock to such ill treatment!



I'd be keen to see that part of said research (given that Crack isn't soluble in water i.e. a weak acid base, at very least, is required) (and which is how it's dissolved for IV purposes).

Doesn’t it have to be processed first though before injection ? Oh well I am no expert on that I’ll take your word for it ?

 

[dalpat077]

Doesn’t it have to be processed first though before injection ? Oh well I am no expert on that I’ll take your word for it ?

It does have to be processed. Can be dissolved with water and citric acid or lemon juice. Maybe even some little bit of heat. That type of thing. Some nasty stories floating around about it though.

For sure not something I've ever done nor will never do. And given the shit that's going into all of this stuff today? Certainly not a chance I'd take even if I were that way inclined.

A lot of people seem to think that Crack is a purer form of Cocaine and that's not even remotely true. But given this notion: it follows that somebody would shoot this shit up thinking the same. Crack is not freebase. And even if freebase is precipitated out of the powder using chemicals there's still no guarantees of purity anymore either e.g. so far as I've been able to establish this Levamisole is a bitch to get rid of. And no dealer is going to sell freebase anyway because they'd go out of business.

Anyway. It's just a bad idea. Period. Unless it's your own product (from start to finish). And even then not on my agenda (but I was never the IV type i.e. each to their own I suppose).

 

[the_void]

It can be injected.

As for it being crushed and snorted: only under the most desperate of circumstances. No self-respecting Crack user is going to subject a rock to such ill treatment!

I'd be keen to see that part of said research (given that Crack isn't soluble in water i.e. a weak acid base, at very least, is required) (and which is how it's dissolved for IV purposes).

Morning buddy . Yeah snorting crack is pretty unusual but can be done . There was medical crack for this purpose, termed Esterene . I’ll send you a quote from dr ronald k siegels book “intoxication “ on this subject

“Peggy Sue went square dancing. I saw the pictures and I still couldn’t believe it. She was sitting in my office, passing photographs to me from the family album, and explaining what had happened. Peggy Sue was seventy-three and she looked very tired; the pictures told the story of better days. In her youth she had been a champion square dancer; Bill, her husband and partner, had posed with the trophies to prove it. He still moved with grace as he guided her through the examination procedures. They now lived in a retirement village where Bill took care of Peggy. He helped her out of bed in the morning and tucked her in at night with all the tenderness of a lovesick boy. Peggy could only smile back. Sex was too difficult. As I examined her, I realized she needed Bill’s help. Her hands were gnarled; her limbs were stiff; and her joints were red and swollen. She could move only short distances with a slow shuffle. While she was able to hold a glass of water with two hands, turning a doorknob was impossible. She needed help in the bath and with grooming. None of these signs of advanced rheumatoid arthritis caused me to disbelieve her story of square dancing. It’s just that she got out of her wheelchair to do it. The medical records told of Peggy Sue’s battle with arthritis for almost twenty years. She had received all the conventional treatments, including gold shots, anti-inflammatory drugs, even surgery on her hands. She sought unconventional steroid treatments in Mexico and was desperate enough to try every new diet, exercise, or massage that promised to ease the progressive stiffness and pain. Then she moved to a desert clinic in California where she received Esterene. Several weeks later, Peggy Sue danced. The charts in her file showed an increased range of motion as muscle and joint functions became less restrained. Her strength improved, the inflammation and swelling of her joints subsided, and all the examining physicians agreed that Esterene had greatly improved Peggy’s condition. Although she never looked forward to taking the Esterene—she thought sniffing was a most peculiar way to take medicine—Peggy Sue had to agree she felt better, suffered less pain, could move her neck and body more freely, and could do without the dozen aspirins she normally took each day. Even when she was told that Esterene was a stimulant, she still didn’t get a rush from the drug. Bill was the one who seemed excited, though, especially now that his lover could once again get into bed on her own. I remained skeptical. Peggy Sue’s rising out of the wheelchair seemed like an act straight from a faith healer’s tent show, not the result of medical treatment by a national arthritis center, and Esterene was, after all, a slick trade name for crack! If used intranasally, crack, which is cocaine free base, would be ever so slowly absorbed by the mucous membranes of the nostrils. This would eliminate the rush that Peggy Sue denied experiencing, but would it also prevent abuse? There were over two hundred other people in the Esterene treatment program that I had been asked to evaluate. I was hopeful that detailed study of these patients would provide the answer. Esterene had been used for more than two years on hundreds of patients, yet I was unable to find a single case of abuse. Some patients had been taking as much as 750 milligrams per day with no ill effects. The program had not proven that Esterene was a cure for arthritis—at best it was only acting as an analgesic and psychomotor stimulant—but it did show that use of a drug, even one with the addicting power of crack, did not have to lead to abuse. It was important to understand how such use could be achieved. If crack could be used without abuse, then maybe any drug could be used safely. The key to this safety was the ultra-slow absorption of cocaine free base from the nasal membranes. Unlike the smoking of the drug, which results in almost instantaneous intoxication, the effects from topical application were like a time-release capsule. The nose functioned as the capsule and the cocaine free base slowly leached out into the blood. Users experienced mild intoxication but one that seemed to last for hours and didn’t need frequent boosts. It was the same effect achieved by chewing coca. Another aspect of safety seemed to be the medical set and setting for the Esterene use. Users were good patients who were under the direct supervision of physicians; they followed their doctor’s orders and their Esterene labels”

 

[ions]

Hard drugs
IV
Meth, Heroin

Soft Drugs
Pot, MDMA, Psilocybin, LSD

I'd base it on the route of administration. Smoking is pretty hard, but vaporizing is gentler. Still a fast way for a drug to enter the bloodstream, lungs.

 

[dalpat077]

@the_void.

Thanks for that. Just when you think you know everything! That's why this drug err... field of research is so rewarding i.e. it's the gift that keeps on giving!

 

[dalpat077]

Hey @the_void.

I just went off at a little tangent to read up on this Esterene treatment. Cannot find anything on the drug itself other than its chemical formula and a patent. Everything else is a regurgitation of the news when the clinic in California was closed down. But all other roads (links) lead to your friend there i.e. Bruce Alexander.

I'm not going to pollute your thread with a dissertation on this because that wasn't the purpose of your thread. But in short: even although I was almost convinced by this type of thing during our lovely discussion on your other thread the other day I cannot say that it sits right with me and this after some much thought after said discussion and then reading some of this information today. I put it to you that when you read this stuff one could be excused for believing that there is no drug problem at all anywhere in the world, drug users are a mere fringe group on the outer edges of society, and addicts are a mere fraction of said fringe group. I cannot get my head around that. And if all of this be the case: then we've all just been subjected to the greatest con. and media disinformation stunt of all time i.e. for at least a decade if not longer.

I do urge to note the dates of this information though i.e. seems to me it's like really really dated especially the citations and references. The book itself was first published in 1989 (and I can only assume either updated or reprinted in 2005). We're talking anywhere between 15 and 30 years ago (and as noted the citations and references date back even further). And maybe therein lies the disconnect between this information and what I perceive to be present day use and addiction problems.

Prospects for Stimulant Maintenance in Vancouver, Canada

This article explores the prospects for stimulant maintenance by (1) reviewing the actual dangers and benefits arising from use of cocaine and other stimulants, (2) describing small scale stimulant maintenance programs that already exist in various countries, and (3) drawing from Vancouver's...

www.brucekalexander.com

This appears to be a summary of the above but as presented to the Canadian Government (but as I say: seems to be dated although I cannot verify that as no dates are shown):

Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs (37th Parliament, 1st Session)

Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs

sencanada.ca

Here's info. about him obviously. I cannot say as the titles of his last works inspire me to take him too seriously though. But that's just me.

Ronald K. Siegel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[the_void]

Hey @the_void.

I just went off at a little tangent to read up on this Esterene treatment. Cannot find anything on the drug itself other than its chemical formula and a patent. Everything else is a regurgitation of the news when the clinic in California was closed down. But all other roads (links) lead to your friend there i.e. Bruce Alexander.

I'm not going to pollute your thread with a dissertation on this because that wasn't the purpose of your thread. But in short: even although I was almost convinced by this type of thing during our lovely discussion on your other thread the other day I cannot say that it sits right with me and this after some much thought after said discussion and then reading some of this information today. I put it to you that when you read this stuff one could be excused for believing that there is no drug problem at all anywhere in the world, drug users are a mere fringe group on the outer edges of society, and addicts are a mere fraction of said fringe group. I cannot get my head around that. And if all of this be the case: then we've all just been subjected to the greatest con. and media disinformation stunt of all time i.e. for at least a decade if not longer.

I do urge to note the dates of this information though i.e. seems to me it's like really really dated especially the citations and references. The book itself was first published in 1989 (and I can only assume either updated or reprinted in 2005). We're talking anywhere between 15 and 30 years ago (and as noted the citations and references date back even further). And maybe therein lies the disconnect between this information and what I perceive to be present day use and addiction problems.

Prospects for Stimulant Maintenance in Vancouver, Canada

This article explores the prospects for stimulant maintenance by (1) reviewing the actual dangers and benefits arising from use of cocaine and other stimulants, (2) describing small scale stimulant maintenance programs that already exist in various countries, and (3) drawing from Vancouver's...

www.brucekalexander.com

This appears to be a summary of the above but as presented to the Canadian Government (but as I say: seems to be dated although I cannot verify that as no dates are shown):

Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs (37th Parliament, 1st Session)

Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs

sencanada.ca

Hey there. I guess I’m just trying to say that all drugs (pretty much) that are used medically or recreationally have something POSITIVE about them. Hell , even tobacco smokers as I understand have less risk of Parkinson’s (do I think you should smoke to avoid Parkinson’s ? Hell no )

I just feel there is too much emphasis on the negatives of those substances , and would like it balanced out with the positives e.g that sure medical crack might work FOR SOME PEOPLE, and recreational crack can be used responsibly BY SOME. My argument is absolutely NOT that this is a good idea for most people

As dr Alexander Shulgin (godfather of MDMA, author of books TIHKAL and PIKHAL) said , “I believe everything known about a substance both positive and negative should be available to anyone considering using it “

 

[ions]

@dalpat077 Two things. I loved Siegel's book Intoxication. Very informative.

I still want to make coca leaves fair trade from the Andean foothills to the US. It would just take some government attention and licenses and treaties perhaps. But I'm still working underground and just advocate cocaine and the coca plant. Coca delisse makes an amazing experience.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Meh, it's just semantics.

I reckon that the 'hard' drugs are defined by their legal status more than anything else - i.e. the most prohibited. In the UK this would include 'class A' drugs and in the US 'Schedule 1' drugs (I think) with everything else being relatively 'soft'.

Furthermore, I'd argue that all drugs can potentially have 'hard' and 'soft' formulations. If we use alcohol as an example, 'hard liquor' usually refers to drinks with a high ABV content. The drug is the same whether it's contained in piss weak beer or mental vodka - it's the concentration that differs.

So if we look at concentration of active ingredient as being the defining factor, then I'd argue that the greed of dealers are successfully turning most drugs 'soft' - with the possible exemptions of fentanyl laced heroin and mega THC weed...

 

[Gormur]

I know it's arbitrary, but I'd consider marijuana a hard drug. This of course is because I'm used to high THC containing product. This is the stuff that you need to plan your day around and build up a tolerance to function on

If we're talking physical harm alone; alcohol, benzodiazepines, cocaine and dissociatives would be hard in that sense closely followed by methamphetamines and lastly opiates/opioids. I'd consider shrooms (possibly, not always) slightly harmful versus LSD which might be the safest drug, at least physiologically-speaking

Soft drugs in my view would be opiates/opioids, methamphetamines and LSD. Everything else would be in a grey area

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Soft drugs in my view would be opiates/opioids, methamphetamines and LSD. Everything else would be in a grey area

You're having a fuckin laff mate.

Opiates are the one class of drug that everyone (except you) deems to be 'hard'. For good reason...

 

[Gormur]

You're having a fuckin laff mate.

Opiates are the one class of drug that everyone (except you) deems to be 'hard'. For good reason...

Well I might look at things differently, is all. An opiate OD can kill but it doesn't have to and can often be reversed. This doesn't work for every drug. Instead of stopping your breath they just poison your organs