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Dissociatives Which disso is best for benzo tapering/switching

F

fugme

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
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305
hi,

i tapered down on my etizolam usage and intend to switch to more anxiolytic, longer lasting benzo so i can ditch them. Anyway, i assume holey-dissos are probably too psychedelic, because i once had an utterly HORRIBLE trip on DCK while withdrawing from benzos. How about *PCP or *PCE analogs or even maybe ephenidine - which one would be the best for lowering glutamate and thus aiding with benzo discontinuation?

thanks
 
I've only ever heard of Memantine being used for benzo tapering (usually moreso to lower tolerance), and that is a relatively unknown compound - outside of being sometimes prescribed for Alzheimer's - that has its own issues.

@Skorpio may have more insight on the subject.
 
Another idea is to go herbal, that tends to smooth things out and take care of factors you haven't considered. I got erroneously sent Magnolia extract once. It doesn't look that interesting on paper, but magnolol exerts GABA-activity with less side-effects as far as I can tell. Plants tend to have unexpected benefits.
 
The holey thing is more a matter of dosage.

From my understanding, the PCP varieties are distinguished by higher DRI activity, relative to NMDAr antagonism. That doesn't mean they're a worse choice, but it means they're not a better choice by your proposed glutamate lowering rationale.
 
No experience with disso's or benzo addiction. I just wanted to throw my support in the thread fugme. I am also fascinated with some of the chemical ways we can get ourselves out of a pickle. If you are a human being walking the earth, then we are in some form of pickle. We all get ourselves into it. The clever ways out should be documented. :) So watching with interest.
 
They say fasoracetam helps upregulating GABA.

Any disso should help in resseting tolerances to some exert at least so in theory any will help

The thing with dissos reseting tolerances, to be sincere, to me sounds a bit like a myth. Do you guys have some solid info to backup this claim? I would love to check it...
 
arrall said:
I've only ever heard of Memantine being used for benzo tapering (usually moreso to lower tolerance), and that is a relatively unknown compound - outside of being sometimes prescribed for Alzheimer's - that has its own issues.

@Skorpio may have more insight on the subject.
Click to expand...
Memantine is good due to its low affinity for NMDA channels . I think it would be likely unwise to use a strong inhibitor like any arylcyclohexylamine as a tapering aid due to psychotomimetic effects (especially with benzos, where the taper/withdrawal is protracted as opposed to opioids, where one can basically blast themselves with dissos to escape the worst of withdrawal).
 
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^Wait what? Wikipedia lists ketamine and methoxetamine with the uncompetitive channels blockers, not the non-competitive ones..
 
Chris Timothy said:
^Wait what? Wikipedia lists ketamine and methoxetamine with the uncompetitive channels blockers, not the non-competitive ones..
Click to expand...
Shit that was a massive brain fart on my part. I'm gonna edit it because you right.
 
Thank you all for your input and help! Unfortunately i don't have time to acquire memantine as i will start with the "treatment" in few days. I don't plan to blast myself out of benzo addiction, i know that doesn't work.

My rationale was to still use long-lasting tapering benzo and once a day use smaller dosage of perhaps 3-meo-pcp since its most emotionally numbing and should help with physical anxiety withdrawal from blasting into severe psychological anxiety everytime some external stimuli stresses me out, with the added benefit of lowering excitatory neurotransmitter that is glutamate.

I know people don't recommend binging these analogues for a week, but i never found *PCP to be recreational and i don't get mania / psychosis / delusions from taking it on daily basis.
 
@Skorpio In your defense, the nomenclature there has the poetic grace of a puddle of gruel.
Textbook example of a complete neglect to instate self-explanatory terminology.
Uncompetitive vs non-competitive, gimme a break..
 
Chris Timothy said:
@Skorpio In your defense, the nomenclature there has the poetic grace of a puddle of gruel.
Textbook example of a complete neglect to instate self-explanatory terminology.
Uncompetitive vs non-competitive, gimme a break..
Click to expand...

I'm just going to clarify the difference between those real quick.

Enzyme inhibition looks at the changes of two specific parameters, the Vmax, which is the enzymes maximal catalytic rate, and the Km, which is the concentration of substrate needed to achieve a rate equal to half of the Vmax.

Enzyme_Inhibition_lineweaver-burk_plots.gif

This graph from Wikipedia compares competitive inhibiton (where the inhibitor competes for ligand binding, but does not reduce the maximal rate), uncompetitive inhibition (where the inhibitor both decreases the Km and Vmax) and non-competitive inhibition (where the Km is unaffected, but the maximal rate is decreased).

When you view the reciprocal of reaction velocity and substrate concentration graphed, you can see the changes of the equation slope and the Y intercept for each type of inhibitor.
 
So that would explain why Cat's Claw and GouTeng herbal preparations could smooth things out? With the rhynchophylline connection?

Edit: or no, here it would exactly ramp things up because Km doesn't get reduced?
 
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Rhybchophylline has an affinity of 43 micro molar at the NMDA channels. This is pretty weak, but could have some minor channel blocking action.
 
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