What would you say if someone said DXM is the safest hallucinogen for a beginner?

[bloodshed344]

I understand your bias, but just to add a little nuance: there are certainly phenethylamines and arylcyclohexylamines that are tough like 2C-P or the heavy caliber coinnaisseur dissociatives and also tryptamines that have the potential to be super mild like 4-HO-DiPT (for me at least). Not everyone will agree with those specifics but my point is it varies, and also most of the psychologically mild ones I am thinking of are also easy on the body. It's not mutually exclusive.

2C-P is wild and frightening but it feels very neutral... It's not the type to scar your mind in my experience. I think 2C-P would be more acceptable for a beginner than DXM, in a proper dose. DXM is too crazy... I changed my religious views instantly from one DXM trip when I was 16... it was a good thing but something that powerful could do crazy things to someone with a weaker mentality than myself. 2C-P was crazy... but it didn't affect my mind in such ways, and it never has.. I don't see the potential for it to unless a pretty decent overdose occurs.

 

[Solipsis]

I already disclaimer'd that not everyone will agree on the specifics, pretty sure it would be ignorant to label all psychedelic phenethylamines as gentle... it is just that tryptamines seem to have a bigger knack for ego dissolution very generally speaking.
That was not the point though, the point was that often there can be found exceptions within a family of compounds, that there is a pretty varied spectrum of drugs and for a class of chems usually mild ones and heavy ones can be found.

Maybe 2C-P can work for a beginner but I still find it a weird idea because it makes more sense to me to start with the mildest drug in its class to get a taste for it before you go on to test the others. Whether or not a drug can potentially be mild if you just dose low enough is besides the point. Otherwise there would be far too many candidates to consider, most of them not being qualitatively ideal.
A reason to consider others would be if availability of options is extremely limited. That may be a realistic possibility for a situation, but it definitely isn't the most appropriate or responsible criterium for selecting something to start with.

I don't know what DXM doses you took and if you are one of the 10% that has an enzyme deficiency making the effects much stronger, but the same thing could be argued for DXM in my opinion: it is not necessarily that crazy if you dose with reservations.

So what is qualitatively ideal for a beginner seems the most interesting topic (but maybe better for the Beginner's Thread, this one is indeed about DXM), without complicating things unnecessarily.

 

[bloodshed344]

I already disclaimer'd that not everyone will agree on the specifics, pretty sure it would be ignorant to label all psychedelic phenethylamines as gentle... it is just that tryptamines seem to have a bigger knack for ego dissolution very generally speaking.
That was not the point though, the point was that often there can be found exceptions within a family of compounds, that there is a pretty varied spectrum of drugs and for a class of chems usually mild ones and heavy ones can be found.

Maybe 2C-P can work for a beginner but I still find it a weird idea because it makes more sense to me to start with the mildest drug in its class to get a taste for it before you go on to test the others. Whether or not a drug can potentially be mild if you just dose low enough is besides the point. Otherwise there would be far too many candidates to consider, most of them not being qualitatively ideal.
A reason to consider others would be if availability of options is extremely limited. That may be a realistic possibility for a situation, but it definitely isn't the most appropriate or responsible criterium for selecting something to start with.

I don't know what DXM doses you took and if you are one of the 10% that has an enzyme deficiency making the effects much stronger, but the same thing could be argued for DXM in my opinion: it is not necessarily that crazy if you dose with reservations.

So what is qualitatively ideal for a beginner seems the most interesting topic (but maybe better for the Beginner's Thread, this one is indeed about DXM), without complicating things unnecessarily.

I dosed that high recently and it just gave mostly bad effects with little trippiness. I think DXM should be reserved for more experienced users because wasting your tolerance on low dose experiences doesn't seem worth it. I waited years in between taking it and it still was just worse than it was before. Qualitatively 2C-I could be a great choice. I gave a guy a combo of 2C-P and 25C-NBOME for his first trip... that was before I had heard anything about NBOMEs being dangerous. Anyway the guy had a really great trip. As long as the dosing is correct a lot of chemicals would be fine, except tryptamines because individual tolerance varies so much. Although I do agree the dosing with 2C-P is pretty volatile.

 

[electrodevo]

Would you say that DXM is the safest hallucinogen to be used by teens? Do you think it messes a lot of kids up mentally because they don't know how to respect it and handle and cope with a bad trip?

Well, it might. One of the problems I see with DXM and the cough syrup approach is that the extra shit in cough syrup will sometimes lead to a "dirty" trip.

Pure DXM is much cleaner. It's no ketamine, but I think a lot of DXM's bad reputation comes from the fact that most people (eg kids with no access to anything else) are chugging cough syrup instead of using pure powder.

One can really take many dissociatives very deep and a 4th plateau trip is not exactly intro. Then again I'm not a big fan of the serotonin agonist style hallucinogenic experience so I'm not sure what I'd recommend for a "beginner". Every person's body is different.

 

[bloodshed344]

Let me add something else Solipsis. My friend took I think it was 235 mg of DXM years ago when me and him hadn't done just about any drugs save cannabis and opioids/benzos. I had done DXM before so I knew how it affected me in terms of potency, my friend hadn't. That 235 mg of DXM (I know it wasn't anymore than this, it may have been less however) made him think he was dying, and he had an out of body experience. My friend wanted to kill me, literally. He thought I poisoned him until it started wearing off. At one point he had to puke and his vision was completely black, he literally had to stumble to the bathroom blind, then he was still there for quite sometime, I perceived it to be hours but I passed out for a bit so I'm not, I had to pull him out of the bathroom cuz he was tripping balls and still completely blind. At another point he saw his dead body as he was looking at it from above, at least that's how he perceived it. At another point he saw a demon... which had a name but I can't remember it... but he told me he knew it's name (this is a property mostly of tryptamine trips, but as we see DXM and even phenethylamines can produce this), but he saw the demon warping through the ceiling, the ceiling was literally melting as the demon was coming through it. At another point I puked on the bed we were on, and my puke was red from the red DXM gelcaps, but what he saw was a GIANT (it was actually pretty small) pile of 'bloody' chunky puke with snakes and watches also. Yeah, he saw snakes and watches pouring from my mouth. Then he saw one of those creepy cat clocks on the wall where there was nothing there.

My point? This is a really small DXM dose and I based it on the DXM weight/dose calculator I found, and he took even less than what it said he should for a 2nd plateau at his weight. That's when I learned individual tolerance varies greatly. He was not very functional for the rest of the next day, still high, and then still feeling weird for the rest of the week even at school. I don't think say, 9 mg 2C-P would be this strong for just about anyone.

Anyone have any other experiences like this? I really think DXM's dosing is way too variable and such situations could have led my friend to be in great trouble if he was in another environment, or on his own. I think it should be for someone more experienced, for sure.

 

[zirbeldude]

He most likely has a cyp2d6 enzyme deficiency.
That's why everyone should take a 30mg test dose the day before.

 

[bloodshed344]

He most likely has a cyp2d6 enzyme deficiency.
That's why everyone should take a 30mg test dose the day before.

He can take a regular dose and get the desired medicinal effects, even up to 80 mg without anything besides cough relief and slight euphoria / sociability.
I'm sure it does have to do with an enzyme deficiency, but that wouldn't exactly explain why his effects were so hardcore and trippy because I could take large doses and not get anything near that. I think it just had a much bigger effect on his mentality because of the way his brain is wired.

 

[shimazu]

Would it be safer for kids to jump into hallucinogens with psilocybin?

mushrooms are what I would say to take for your first time doing any psychs. Just keep contact with the general population to a minimum and go outside with a few friends you trust on a nice day.

 

[theantiadult]

dxm is probly 1 of the safest.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I'm sure it does have to do with an enzyme deficiency, but that wouldn't exactly explain why his effects were so hardcore and trippy because I could take large doses and not get anything near that. I think it just had a much bigger effect on his mentality because of the way his brain is wired.

Yes it would, that's what happens to poor metabolizers. His body couldn't break down the drug (or it's metabolite 3-methoxymorphinan) like most people can, so he got significant effects from a small amount, that lasted much longer than they normally would.

As for the thread topic, no it's not an ideal beginner's entheogen/hallucinogen, it's just too variable, and is only enjoyed by a minority of persons. Still, a lot of folks start with it because they have nothing else available (at least they're trying out one of the less abusable dissociatives, I say). Also, there are a number of significant contraindications with this one. Any of the classic psychedelics would make a superior starting point, or your average 4-sub-tryptamine, or 2c-x (besides 2c-p/g/the long ones), et al.

 

[bloodshed344]

Yes it would, that's what happens to poor metabolizers. His body couldn't break down the drug (or it's metabolite DXO) like most people can, so he got significant effects from a small amount, that lasted much longer than they normally would.

As for the thread topic, no it's not an ideal beginner's entheogen/hallucinogen, it's just too variable, and is only enjoyed by a minority of persons. Still, a lot of folks start with it because they have nothing else available (at least they're trying out one of the less abusable dissociatives, I say). Also, there are a number of significant contraindications with this one. Any of the classic psychedelics would make a superior starting point, or your average 4-sub-tryptamine, or 2c-x (besides 2c-p/g/the long ones), et al.

It wouldn't exactly because it showed a completely different effects profile for him. The ratio of mental effects/body high was different and all. It definitely had something to do with it though. The point is individual tolerance varies a bunch, aside from individual difference like enzyme deficiencies.

I'm pretty sure I could OD on DXM before I got some of the effects he got.

@theantiadult: No, it's really not. It has a pretty low safety profile compared to tryptamines.

 

[DickTate]

^The individual tolerance depends on the effectiveness of the cyp2d6 enzyme as well as body weight and other factors.
The enzyme deficiency is the culprit in this case and also the reason why the effects were stronger/different. The affected people trip way harder, longer and unpleasant, feeling very unhealthy.
The ratio of mental and body effects are probably caused by less conversion of DXM to DXO.

I have a friend who stupidly took 600mg DXM without doing an allergy test and he had a terrible experience and an afterglow which lasted about a week including offbalanced motor skills, problems to speak and pronounce things clearly etc.
He was kind of retarded for that time and suffered depression from the fear that things could just stay that way.

So yeah, NKB summarized it very good.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Images from somewhere in erowid's dxm vault:

 

[EarthBounded]

I would personally vote that Psilocybin Mushrooms are the safest it is the only Non synthetic / semi-synthetic drug being discussed, they are 100% natural just like cannabis, of course people can still have bad trips and I believe the younger teens would be more vulnerable to a bad trip, however there is still very very little risk associated with mushrooms and the risk of permanent damage is almost non-existent.

Behind mushrooms would be properly prepared organic Hawaiian baby wood rose seeds for there LSA content.

The 2C family only has one problem in my eyes and that is dosing, compared to MDMA and cocaine this is 1/4-1/8 the dosage in Mass, not everyone is educated on dosing these drugs including dealers.

LSD would be 3rd on my list if dosed very correctly I would say 80-100mcg for a first time user.

The younger generation chooses DXM because it is easy to obtain, I would not say it is safe or dangerous, however taking all that cough medicine is not really good for the body, a water extraction of purer DXM properly dosed would technically be safer.

Good question OP, I would advise steering DXM users towards more all natural alternatives

 

[THCisgod]

DXM blows compared to any other psych but kids mostly do it when they can't find anything else id hope but really id just stay away from it even though the only time I tried it I will admit it was kinda cool besides my friend getting horribly sick I think 1 tab of LSD or 2 grams of mushrooms is a good starting point for sure