Benzos What in the fuck did I do? Or should I give it a couple more weeks?

[UtterlyConfused]

I swear I'm about to lose my shit trying to figure this out. While I feel more mentally calm to a degree. My body? Not so much. It's been a week since I switched over from Diazepam 10mg 3x Daily to Clonazepam 1 1/2mg Daily. The last few days, while I haven't been as dizzy or panicky, I've been having a resurgence and array of very debilitating physical symptoms. I was on Clonazepam before going on Diazepam along with Propranalol and Cogentin. I'm no longer on those. It's now just my Clonazepam and Baclofen 10mg 3x Daily. But I feel like my body/muscles are in shock. I'm taking over half the equivalent daily dose of the V I was on. My morning dose of Clonazepam is almost my full daily dose of what I was getting on Diazepam.

However, I don't know if my brain and body is adjusting/stabilizing and whatnot or if I am royally screwed. One reason being my Doctor said that he won't change it again or put me on Diazepam 20-25 3x Daily. He said if he did either 15 or 20 would be as much as he'd prescribe. But perhaps I'm being impatient. Before I switched to Diazepam, I could take a Clonazepam and almost instantly, (20 - 30 min or so), feel it and not feel the need to take one for another 10 hours or so even though I was on less than I am now, which was 1mg 3x daily. Now I feel like I have Trigeminal Neuralgia. Stiff Jaw. Hearing weird shit but not hallucintions. Extremely hypertonic neck muscles. Muscles that are "moving around" and pulsating in different patterns and feeling like I am having rebound/increased spasticity. That and slower eye movements. Hard to read. Hard to walk or stand for two long. At the same time I'm just restless. Having to adjust the way I am either laying or sitting. Though, whenever I am laying down, the symptoms subside. Completely. I've heard that it can take anywhere from 2 weeks to a month to stabilize on it and get the desired benefits again from it. But what doesn't make sense is that I *am* also on Baclofen. I also get Botox shots that weaken and relax those muscles. I go to PT and also get massages. I even popped two flexerils and the other day a Toradol that I had from an ER visit. Still, nothing.

So....am I going to fucking just feel like this all of the time now or is my body just adjusting to the med? I know that no one can give me an exact answer or medical advice, but I'd appreciate your best educated guesses. The Myoclonus has slowed down a bit, but the spasms and stiffness ...I'm under some "superior firepower" from them. Again, can anyone guess what is going on? Should I ride it out and hope that it abates? Will it abate...? There's no way in Hell that I can take those many muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories and still be feeling like this. Or is it because I just rapidly switched up and it will even out? Please tell me that it should. If not, please just be honest and give me your opinion. Thanks.

 

[keeping]

i don't have much to offer medically but as someone who's ben through benzo (andopiate) withdrawal, sounds like your going through one rn.
don't worry dude your body is just getting used to a lower dose, you won't feel this way forever

 

[mike.vick]

Tordol is just like an ibuprofen. so you switched from 3mg of clonaz to 1.5mg clonaz? If you feel mentally unstable, perhaps your doc should have slowly switched meds over a one week course. And you should not taper fast. DONT WORRY, though., you will not have a seizure or DTs when you are on 1.5mg of Klonopin. Were you taking baclofen before?

 

[UtterlyConfused]

i don't have much to offer medically but as someone who's ben through benzo (andopiate) withdrawal, sounds like your going through one rn.
don't worry dude your body is just getting used to a lower dose, you won't feel this way forever

Thanks. And lower dose? I went to a pretty moderate dose of Clonazepam which is more potent than Diazepam. I was on 30mg Diazepam daily and now am on 4.5 mg Clonazepam daily, which I believe equates to roughly around 70 - 75% Diazepam on the scale? With the Diazepam, it wasn't controlling my jaw spasms, myoclonus, my anxiety and agoraphobia was pretty high etc... Again In terms of equivalency, aren't I on a "higher dose" than I was the Diazepam? Or is it just my body sort of in "shock" getting used to it? Because if not, I'm terrified.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Tordol is just like an ibuprofen. so you switched from 3mg of clonaz to 1.5mg clonaz? If you feel mentally unstable, perhaps your doc should have slowly switched meds over a one week course. And you should not taper fast. DONT WORRY, though., you will not have a seizure or DTs when you are on 1.5mg of Klonopin. Were you taking baclofen before?

No. I switched from 10mg of Diazepam 3x Daily to Clonazepam 1 1/2mg 3x Daily. And I am also still taking Baclofen. 10mg 3x Daily. I'm startled to say the least.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

I've also been taking ionic magnesium. Still, nothing seems to be ameliorating this.

 

[mike.vick]

Thanks. And lower dose? I went to a pretty moderate dose of Clonazepam which is more potent than Diazepam. I was on 30mg Diazepam daily and now am on 4.5 mg Clonazepam daily, which I believe equates to roughly around 70 - 75% Diazepam on the scale? With the Diazepam, it wasn't controlling my jaw spasms, myoclonus, my anxiety and agoraphobia was pretty high etc... Again In terms of equivalency, aren't I on a "higher dose" than I was the Diazepam? Or is it just my body sort of in "shock" getting used to it? Because if not, I'm terrified.

No, 4.5 mg of Klonopin is equal to 4.5-9mg of Xanax per day and 80-90mg of diazepam per day. So you are getting above the dose for equivalency. DRINK SOME REAL GRAPEFRUIT JUICE before, during, and after Klonopin to increase your bodies absorption.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2172250-overview#a1


Also, stop the magnesium for now, it competes at the gaba receptor, if I remember correctly.


Also, as I mentioned before, try taking 2mg in the morning and only .5mg in the day, and the 2mg at night. That will probably help a little, as 0.5mg of Klonopin is equal to 10mg Diazepam. ... Diazepam has a slightly longer half-life, so, if you were only doing 0.5mg Klonopin three-times per day, you might experience a few days of minor discomfort after a few days of switching over.

Other than that, you could be psyching yourself out. Try to dissolve one under your tounge for faster onset and relief.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

No, 4.5 mg of Klonopin is equal to 4.5-9mg of Xanax per day and 80-90mg of diazepam per day.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2172250-overview#a1

Hmm. I see it goes back and forth on this. The way I've seen it before is that .5mg of Clonazepam = 10mg Diazepam and 1mg of Clonazepam = 20mg of Diazepam. Anyway, what do you think? Should I give it a couple more weeks to stabilize and really feel the benefits? Am I feeling like this, in your opinion, because I just straight up dropped the Diazepam overnight? I know Clonazepam has a build up effect and acts differently, but I also believe that it hits and binds more tightly to our GABA-A receptors? Would you say that it should even out, how I'm feeling, anytime soon? As in the next 1 - 2 or even 3 weeks? This is fucking insane. I should have just kept self medicating with booze. LOL - Stopped years ago, but still.

 

[keeping]

since I switched over from Diazepam 10mg 3x Daily to Clonazepam 1 1/2mg Daily.

Thanks. And lower dose? I went to a pretty moderate dose of Clonazepam which is more potent than Diazepam. I was on 30mg Diazepam daily and now am on 4.5 mg Clonazepam daily,

sorry bro that's where i got confused, you said two different amounts lol
yeah mann if your on 4.5mgs of clonazepam daily (as opposed to 1.5 which is what i was assuming) you on a much higher dose, which is odd because it sounds like you are withdrawing, not gettingmore diazepam?

i'd put it down to teething pains, but if the problems get worse see your consultant, and yeah, drink GF juice (white not ruby).

 

[mike.vick]

^^^^ Yeah, I would say all discomfort, while ought not be very noticeable, will subside in the time difference of their half lives, which is about 65 hours, or almost 3 days, difference. Plus, the Klonopin is slower to bind, it takes 1-4 hours to take effect and diazepam takes 1-2 hours, so there is that discrepancy, dissolve it under your tounge for faster onset. Also, a completely madeup theory that I just thought of is that the more potently binding Klonopin could "kick" some of the remaining diazepam off the receptors, which would cause momentary discomfort until the Klonopin fully sets in. That should all have happened by now though, so it's probably just your body getting used to the potent but slow-onset benzo versus the less-potent but quicker onset benzo. BOTTOM LINE: it will just take a matter of days till you feel adjusted completely.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

^^^^ Yeah, I would say all discomfort, while ought not be very noticeable, will subside in the time difference of their half lives, which is about 65 hours, or almost 3 days, difference. Plus, the Klonopin is slower to bind, it takes 1-4 hours to take effect and diazepam takes 1-2 hours, so there is that discrepancy, dissolve it under your tounge for faster onset. Also, a completely madeup theory that I just thought of is that the more potently binding Klonopin could "kick" some of the remaining diazepam off the receptors, which would cause momentary discomfort until the Klonopin fully sets in. That should all have happened by now though, so it's probably just your body getting used to the potent but slow-onset benzo versus the less-potent but quicker onset benzo. BOTTOM LINE: it will just take a matter of days till you feel adjusted completely.

Thanks. I just did the direct switch Friday. I had mostly good moments. But since Tuesday and yesterday, so far this morning, my TMJ, cranial and neck spasms have been off the hook. And that's what I'm thinking. I just hope I start feeling the therapeutic effects of it soon. Literally every muscle in my back, neck, head and face feel locked and pulsating. It's been 7 days. So, hopefully something will give. And yeah, in a way it does sound like withdrawal which doesn't make any sense. What worries me is that before I saw a neuro, I was only seeing a GP and a Psychiatrist before my diagnosis of Meige Syndrome/Cervical Dystonia. So, this is my 5th go 'round with Clonazepam. They put me on and abruptly took me off of it 4 times in the past for reasons ranging anywhere from "It's psychogenic", "It's related to an underlying mental condition", "Let's try something else" etc... But if it is true "withdrawal" shouldn't the Clonazepam ameliorate and cover for that?

 

[UtterlyConfused]

And sorry for any miscommunications, I've been doing that lately. Brain is like trying to fix a rudder upon landing in clear air turbulence with pretty fast tail winds. LOL - So, yes. I went from 10mg 3x Daily of Diazepam to 1 1/2mg Clonazepam 3x Daily.

 

[mike.vick]

Yeah, I believe, that you did not see a withdrawal on the day you stopped taking it, rather a few days later, due to the extended half-life of diazepam makes that so, and that you are still feeling a little off because the slightly shorter half-life of Klonopin. I would say that you should start feeling like yourself within today or tomorrow.

Take 500mg acetaminophen (Tylenol extra strength) 3-4 times a day for the muscle pains.

 

[crzydiamond]

Could the side effects be from stopping the propanalol and cogentin ?

I know that cogentin is used to prevent those types of muscle spasms and tremors, and propanalol withdrawal will affect the adrenergic system.... How fast and how long ago did you stop those? Just reading your post that was my first "red flag" more so than a slight benzo drop/different benzo ...

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Could the side effects be from stopping the propanalol and cogentin ?

I know that cogentin is used to prevent those types of muscle spasms and tremors, and propanalol withdrawal will affect the adrenergic system.... How fast and how long ago did you stop those? Just reading your post that was my first "red flag" more so than a slight benzo drop/different benzo ...

Oh, yeah. That was over a year ago though. I could be psyching myself out though. But the Clonzepam doesn't feel like it's doing much. Sunday and Monday weren't bad. Then yesterday and today it all really revved up. I'm just hoping it starts working soon and not that it's not going to work at all.

 

[-Guido-]

I swear I'm about to lose my shit trying to figure this out. While I feel more mentally calm to a degree. My body? Not so much. It's been a week since I switched over from Diazepam 10mg 3x Daily to Clonazepam 1 1/2mg Daily. The last few days, while I haven't been as dizzy or panicky, I've been having a resurgence and array of very debilitating physical symptoms. I was on Clonazepam before going on Diazepam along with Propranalol and Cogentin. I'm no longer on those. It's now just my Clonazepam and Baclofen 10mg 3x Daily. But I feel like my body/muscles are in shock. I'm taking over half the equivalent daily dose of the V I was on. My morning dose of Clonazepam is almost my full daily dose of what I was getting on Diazepam.

However, I don't know if my brain and body is adjusting/stabilizing and whatnot or if I am royally screwed. One reason being my Doctor said that he won't change it again or put me on Diazepam 20-25 3x Daily. He said if he did either 15 or 20 would be as much as he'd prescribe. But perhaps I'm being impatient. Before I switched to Diazepam, I could take a Clonazepam and almost instantly, (20 - 30 min or so), feel it and not feel the need to take one for another 10 hours or so even though I was on less than I am now, which was 1mg 3x daily. Now I feel like I have Trigeminal Neuralgia. Stiff Jaw. Hearing weird shit but not hallucintions. Extremely hypertonic neck muscles. Muscles that are "moving around" and pulsating in different patterns and feeling like I am having rebound/increased spasticity. That and slower eye movements. Hard to read. Hard to walk or stand for two long. At the same time I'm just restless. Having to adjust the way I am either laying or sitting. Though, whenever I am laying down, the symptoms subside. Completely. I've heard that it can take anywhere from 2 weeks to a month to stabilize on it and get the desired benefits again from it. But what doesn't make sense is that I *am* also on Baclofen. I also get Botox shots that weaken and relax those muscles. I go to PT and also get massages. I even popped two flexerils and the other day a Toradol that I had from an ER visit. Still, nothing.

So....am I going to fucking just feel like this all of the time now or is my body just adjusting to the med? I know that no one can give me an exact answer or medical advice, but I'd appreciate your best educated guesses. The Myoclonus has slowed down a bit, but the spasms and stiffness ...I'm under some "superior firepower" from them. Again, can anyone guess what is going on? Should I ride it out and hope that it abates? Will it abate...? There's no way in Hell that I can take those many muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories and still be feeling like this. Or is it because I just rapidly switched up and it will even out? Please tell me that it should. If not, please just be honest and give me your opinion. Thanks.

Your body is adjusting to the medication. Valium has muscle relaxing properties while Clonazapam does not. It should take you two weeks to adjust.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Your body is adjusting to the medication. Valium has muscle relaxing properties while Clonazapam does not. It should take you two weeks to adjust.

I've read that both do. Hmm. Well, it did before I went off a year and a half or so. But yeah, that was my hopeful line of thinking of just giving it a little more time.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Tordol is just like an ibuprofen. so you switched from 3mg of clonaz to 1.5mg clonaz? If you feel mentally unstable, perhaps your doc should have slowly switched meds over a one week course. And you should not taper fast. DONT WORRY, though., you will not have a seizure or DTs when you are on 1.5mg of Klonopin. Were you taking baclofen before?

Quick question. If I have been on it for 7 days and I have an even stiffer neck and jaw w/spasms, does that mean it's not going to work at all or do I need to give it some time? Before, it worked like a charm.

 

[Treefa]

Have you tried the full equivalent dose to compensate for discrepencies in potentcy between the two?

Could be mild withdrawal or just some sort of disequilibrium resultant of some cross-tolerance or different benzo maybe.

Benzodiazepines, in some people, can cause paradoxical reactions, which just means instead of calming down some individuals, the GABAergic mechanism seems to stimulate these people resulting in a paradoxical reaction. I don't know all the symptoms of a paradoxical benzo reaction, but I believe in severe cases they could potentially make people hallucinate, or even worsen convulsions or seizures, if you're prone to those.
So they would just react the opposite as most people do to benzos.

Whether this phenomenon can happen between different benzos is beyond my knowledge. Google knows tho, lol.

 

[Kottonmouth]

I was on klonopin for 10 years UtterlyConfused, what generic brand do you have?? Stay away from Mylan, Watson and Activis. Teva's are very close to the roche original Klonipin... Teva's are the best IMO, Mylans are just ok. I think you might just have a shitty generic, Activis is the worst FOR ME, but I've heard other people bitch about them too. Get Teva's and you might feel a bit better. Generics are weird like that.