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What Happens When You Invite AA-Baiting Stanton Peele to AA’s National Board Meeting?

Jabberwocky

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What Happens When You Invite AA-Baiting Stanton Peele to AA’s National Board Meeting?

Will Godfrey | 5/1/14 said:
It’s difficult to think of a more prominent or outspoken opponent of Alcoholics Anonymous and the disease model of addiction than Stanton Peele—the ever-provocative addiction theorist, author of books like Resisting 12 Step Coercion (2001), and noted Substance.com contributor. So it may surprise those who know him to learn that he was once invited to the national AA board meeting—it may surprise them less to learn that he was ejected from it.

In a feature titled “Banned for Life” at Esquire—where Peele’s daughter, Anna, is an editor—Peele Sr. shares how he has been kicked out of a meditation session in Vancouver and a bar in San Francisco, before launching into the main event:

…somehow I (probably the leading anti-AA theorist in America) got invited to a national AA board meeting at a New York hotel by some guy I didn’t know, but who thought he could bring me into the fold. While I was there, an AA meeting broke out.

They had three recovering people speak. Each was supposed to speak for five minutes; each went on for about an hour. I leaned over to the man who had invited me, and whispered—”Even you must be bored out of your skull!” One woman spoke who had been homeless as a teen, and two men who never drank at home, and then went berserk in college—and kept on going. Afterwards, I went up to a board member, who happened to be President of Rockefeller University, and I asked him, “Do you give your children alcohol?” He said he did let them drink wine at dinners when they became teens. I said, “You need to tell everyone in AA that it’s their abstinence fixation growing up that seems to produce a majority of alcoholics, judging from tonight, and extremely disturbed childhoods, in the other case.”

I then went up to a woman who edited the AA periodical “The Grapevine,” and told her she needed to do an article on that topic.

Right about then, the man who invited me came over and said, “They’ve told me that you need to leave.”
http://www.substance.com/what-happe...anton-peele-to-the-national-aa-board-meeting/

Little old, sorry. Thought it was funny. Enjoy.
 
I think it’s annoying that AA is used as the golden standard for recovery and I’m completely against people being forced to go to AA meetings but leave the people who want to be there alone. If it works for them and they feel they are happy then who cares what they do? What’s the purpose of what he did? Just to go harass people? This just seems extremely disrespectful and distasteful. It’s cool though, I’m sure he would completely understand if someone started messing with him and other people at one of his kid’s funerals(a ritual that some find just as absurd and laughable as he finds AA).
 
Um, although I kinda agree with you, I'm really not sure that a National AA Board Meeting, let alone an AA meeting, is really comparable to a funeral (I assume you're referring to a monotheistic religious oriented funeral) in any way short of there being a bit about God, religious overtones and an aspect of tradition to it.
 
Um, although I kinda agree with you, I'm really not sure that a National AA Board Meeting, let alone an AA meeting, is really comparable to a funeral (I assume you're referring to a monotheistic religious oriented funeral) in any way short of there being a bit about God, religious overtones and an aspect of tradition to it.

I wasn't really comparing the events/rituals themselves and what they entail. It was more a comparison of the personal value and importance that each may hold for the attendees. To some people AA is sacred for whatever reason and to some a funeral is sacred for whatever reason. I don't really understand either and think they are both kind of silly but that doesn't mean I should go to AA meetings and funerals and tell people how silly it all is. That was all i was illustrating :)
 
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I hear ya, it just bothers me that people can elevate an AA meeting or the like to the significant of a funeral...

And regarding how obnoxious the guys probably was to those AA'ers, I have to say that that sort of criticism applies way more so those really fundamentalist or missionary 12-Steppers who feel obliged to get up at community meetings of local healthcare/mental healthcare services provides about how all methadone clinics should be shut down and banned and how doctors who prescribe buprenorphine should be likewise be boycotted. People like the guy in the above seems more the exception, and although I agree with him, doesn't make it necessarily right (although again as he was invited and I think we can assume he left peaceably, that's a lot more than a lot of those 12-Steps I mentioned can say).

Pissed me off when I hear about 12-Step folks, especially those from 12-Step based rehabs, that try and steal away clients from ROT treatment programs.
 
Yeah, those 12 step rehabs are particularly obnoxious in that regard. Saying that, the one I went to was pretty bad; the staff were very distrustful to the clients in general, and there was just mutual distrust on both sides leading to a pretty toxic enviroment.

I've attended many meetings, and there are too many negatives to list here, but the words religion and cult spring to mind. They're even organised like churches on my side of the pond; the twelve steps on the wall- that's your Ten Commandments. The book - that's the bible, and of course in AA in particular there's Bill - that's a stand in for Christ, or a guru....it works for some though, I can't deny that, there's always an inner circle of people who've been clean for decades in some cases. I stopped attending meetings because of the gossiping and cliques myself, and also the requirement to only speak about my negative aspects - kinda more like a public Catholic confessional in a way.

What are ROT programs btw? I've never heard of that before.
 
Ooop lol types. Mean to write "ORT" Opioid Replacement Therapy ROT sounds cooler than ORT though :)
 
^In the case of methadone, ROT sounds sadly appropriate.

I don't know the story behind this (or much more than an outsider's interest in the pros/cons of 12 step programs) - but I must say I absolutely agree with the idea that forcing abstinence (of alcohol, in this case) on people - especially youth and young adults - is pretty counterproductive.

As a socially accepted drug, we need to be socialised into its safe use.
If the prevailing use people are first exposed to are keg parties and binge drinking as a socially accepted (or pressured) norm - that will be part of the induction they get into its use.
Not a quiet drink or two over a meal, but reckless drinking.

This is partly why so many 'illicit' drugs get unfairly demonised; without the guiding social framework from 'responsible adults' (or at least somebody who gives a shit - be they parents, family, friends or whoever) people hit "legal age" and for many - hooooo-weeee! It's on.

Sometimes these folk soon realise the downsides of heavy drinking.
Some get their shit together and learn their limits - learn to drink responsibly without causing health or social problems.
Some hit "rock bottom" (AA terminology, no?) and take the hint, make efforts to curb use.
Some people do neither.

But - to return to my point - I agree that responsible drinking practices can and should be taught, because learning that shit on your own very often means learning the hard way.

Incidentally I'm not a drinker, but have been through binge-drinking phases, responsible drinking phases - and for the last ~5 years, a teetotal phase. Personally I learned how to control my alcohol use....but then I realised it just wasn't my bag.

The drinking age where I live is 18, so by the time I was 21 the novelty of this had worn off.

Anyway, I'm not fully informed about the people referenced in this article, but I do like discussion over the dogma that seems to rule these sorts of organisations.
Evicting the man for raising what I consider a reasonable point does seem rather cult-ish.
Then again I wasn't there. But IMHO the discussion of enforced abstinence (and its shortcomings) is sound....and not offensive.
Stifling of such a debate seems more offensive to me.
 
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IMHO the discussion of enforced abstinence (and its shortcomings) is sound....and not offensive.
Stifling of such a debate seems more offensive to me.

Well said spaghetti man!

Why spaghetti? no reason
Why man? no reason

I did see Rubber recently though =D

On a totally different note... I'm so tired of hearing about how methadone "rots" your "insert part of body, such as teeth, molars, bones, gums, etc, here". Especially from people who know better.
 
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^ yeah I wasn't sure how much of methadone's reputation for causing dental harm was myth/reality.

You're right though - too fucked to funk.
 
Someone came into one of my criminology classes who was on morphine maintenance at 400mg a day I believe and claimed that methadone rots the teeth and that he was allergic to it (made him black out apparently). He chugged a huge bottle of it at an airport because of the no liquids rule and ended up barred from the flight etc. this guy was so antsy for being on morphine it was insane. He got some renowned specialist to prescribe him the morphine as a special case.

Does methadone have any verifiable extra toxicity compared to other opiates?
 
I wasn't really comparing the events/rituals themselves and what they entail. It was more a comparison of the personal value and importance that each may hold for the attendees. To some people AA is sacred for whatever reason and to some a funeral is sacred for whatever reason. I don't really understand either and think they are both kind of silly but that doesn't mean I should go to AA meetings and funerals and tell people how silly it all is. That was all i was illustrating :)

The Egyptians held funerals in 4000BC. They are not the first. It's a human custom that has been going on for over 6000 years. There's not much of a comparison between a funeral and an AA, even if just looking at both as a mere ritual.

For one thing there's many, many AA meetings and members may attend hundreds. There's usually just one funeral for a person. Again, they're just not comparable.

I'd argue that anyone who laughed at the concept of a funeral may very well display a number of other sociopathic tendencies.
 
I think it’s annoying that AA is used as the golden standard for recovery and I’m completely against people being forced to go to AA meetings but leave the people who want to be there alone. If it works for them and they feel they are happy then who cares what they do? What’s the purpose of what he did? Just to go harass people? This just seems extremely disrespectful and distasteful. It’s cool though, I’m sure he would completely understand if someone started messing with him and other people at one of his kid’s funerals(a ritual that some find just as absurd and laughable as he finds AA).

i could not agree more. I do go to NA meetings actually, usually abut 3 a week but then i still smoke weed daily. I didn't go there to become abstinent. Maybe one day ill feel different but the thing that warmed me to it was the fact that i9 suddenly had friends who actually cared how i was and stuff. People to go for coffees with and a laugh with. \I personally went there cos there was nowhere left to go for me, i had lost my friends and my WHOLE LIFE to the death of my fiance which came down to drugs. I went to stop doing benzos and heroin and this is all i know from my experience. Iv had periods of being able to stay off the opiates and benzos and been very good (the amount of weed i smoked stayed the same throughout) and periods of time where i have not been able to stay completely off the benzos or opiates, HOWEVER, i find when i do find myself using opiates and benzos again i do feel a lot better and less guilty about it if i have been doing NA meetings and seeing my friends from there rather than isolating and sitting alone in my room.

ho-hum- currently waiting to be put on a meth script atm and my use has got to a point its never got to before actually. eighths every few days injected etc. all while doing lots of clonazepam and other benzos too :s
onwards and upwards!
 
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