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What happens when a blind person takes a psychedelic?

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borega

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
96
I just asked myself what a blind person would see if he took a visual psychedelic? I believe that the visuals in seeing ppl. Come from a 5ht stimulation in the brain (I know this is very simplified). Would a non seeing person have CEV? How does that mechanism work? Or would he see nothing due to no '' input'' from the eyes? Hope this is ad and not bd. Mods feel free to move if nessesary.
Regards
 
Wow that's a really good question, Since blind people (Assuming they are blind from birth) don't even know what colors are, nor ever had any visual stimulation. Would they see anything CEV wise? Or would they only experience the physical feelings of the drug.
 
bapae said:
Wow that's a really good question, Since blind people (Assuming they are blind from birth) don't even know what colors are, nor ever had any visual stimulation. Would they see anything CEV wise? Or would they only experience the physical feelings of the drug.
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Seriously interesting question. Unfortunately there probably aren't many blind people who read bluelight, so that rules out first hand reports.

Luckily they let you study just about anything back in the 60's, so there's this:

Effects of a hallucinogenic agent in totally blind subjects.
A previous study demonstrated that lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) induced measurable changes in human retinal function while visual hallucinations and illusions were being experienced.1 The changes were evident in both dark-adaptation and electroretinographic studies and were interpreted as mildly hypoxic or toxic retinal effects of LSD. In the dark-adaptation curve, LSD delayed the rod-cone break and elevated the entire rod threshold. In the electroretinogram (ERG), the drug increased the scotopic bwave amplitudes and in some subjects also increased the scotopic a-wave amplitudes.

Because hallucinations and illusions were reported only when measurable ERG and dark-adaptation changes occurred, a possible retinal role in the induction of hallucinations was considered. Consequently, the present study was undertaken to clarify the role of a functioning retina in the induction of LSD-induced visual changes by studying subjects with total blindness (no light perception) and, insofar as could be determined, normal central nervous system
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14/20 non-congenitally blind (lost sight after birth) experienced visual hallucinations. 7/14 hallucinated in color, 7/14 in black and white. 0/4 congenitally blind (blind since birth) experienced visual hallucinations. There was also a higher incidence of auditory, tactile, gustatory, and olfactory hallucinations in both the non-congenital and congenital groups compared to sighted people.
 
This thread poses an excellent question - and through nothing but shear luck - I can provide, at least to some degree, an insight (no pun intended) into the matter. I treated a patient for zopiclone dependency 3 years ago who concomitantly used other psychoactive substances. Now here's the kicker - this patient suffered from congenital blindness and as such had never seen. The patient's comorbidities included major depression and chronic insomnia. I treated his dependency with a diazepam taper and he recovered very well. Since I had been treating him and seeing him weekly for many months, we developed a good rapport - and during one appointment he told me that he'd slipped up during the week and combined a dose of LSD with 20mg of diazepam. In a burst of complete unprofessionalism, I was more interested in the effects of the LSD on a blind patient that the potential risks of combining the two drugs (with his tolerance, realistically very minimal) and he described this (if my memory serves me correctly):

"In my mind there were these things - it was like hitting my head or getting a head rush from standing up too fast. There were many of these indescribable shapes and things in my mind. It frustrates me that I can't articulate them - but I wonder if this is what it's like to see!"

His description put me in mind of pseudovisual patterns we all see and experience when rubbing our eyes or during a rapid change in blood pressure - and this fascinated me intensely! In essence his visual cortex was stimulated and he "saw" against the blackness of his lack of input from his optic nerves, perhaps colours, shapes and "stars". So by his testimony, I would say that blind people can experience some degree of a visual experience from psychedelics!

P.S. He also described in great detail the effect it had on his hearing and feeling objects, but I don't think the O.P. was looking for that sort of answer. I hope this was of interest - it certainly was for me.
 
Thanks for the posts! Great topic that i just came up with when i saw a blind man leaving the bus today!
I guess to clear this topic up a it more for me I should work up on how "hallucination" works on the brain lvl but in connection with the eye (and as I know now even without the eyes)!
 
Very interesting!

with his tolerance, realistically very minimal
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Regardless of tolerance, I can't think of a mechanism whereby diazepam would cause an adverse reaction to LSD, or vice versa. Instead I'd be concerned about blunting the effects of the the costly and not always available LSD with always around and dirt cheap diazepam!

No biological mechanism (there's no risk of additive effects resulting in some sort of overdose syndrome), that is. I could see a completely uninhibited person deciding that something incredibly dangerous to do is a completely brilliant thing to do under the influence of the two drugs, but people do stupid things under the influence of both drugs, I doubt that bad decision making is compounded when used together- though I suspect that because a blind person can't drive, that's out of the picture, and hopefully flying is too! ;)
 
endotropic said:
Seriously interesting question. Unfortunately there probably aren't many blind people who read bluelight, so that rules out first hand reports.

Luckily they let you study just about anything back in the 60's, so there's this:

Effects of a hallucinogenic agent in totally blind subjects.


14/20 non-congenitally blind (lost sight after birth) experienced visual hallucinations. 7/14 hallucinated in color, 7/14 in black and white. 0/4 congenitally blind (blind since birth) experienced visual hallucinations. There was also a higher incidence of auditory, tactile, gustatory, and olfactory hallucinations in both the non-congenital and congenital groups compared to sighted people.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting information right there. Almost seems as if LSD is a completely different experience for blind people all together. Really curious on the effects of other psychedelics on blind people.

And wonder what the effects would be on someone that used LSD before becoming blind then after becoming blind would be.
 
Indeed - I was just making that exact point. The diazepam, if anything, would compliment the LSD trip nicely, maintaining a relaxed mindset and avoiding any potential for bad trips. If the personal account of Patient X and his experiences with LSD and congenital blindness I could try and get him to type (dictate) something about it and I can post it in this thread - with his permission of course. I don't see him that often nowadays though. He finished his zopiclone/diazepam taper ages ago and I haven't seen him at the surgery since.
 
I always thought of the visuals as an added bonus to the trip, so I think it would still effect a blind person similarly to people with vision. I also like to imagine a blind person dosing up and colors poppin up all over the place, like what I see when I close my eyes while tripping; but I am sure it would be way more of a euphoric visual for a blind person. I like Morphoids post a lot, very interesting that the blind person could not describe what I assume were the patterns that one tends to see during a psychadelic experience. awesome thread.
 
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Thanks man - I too found the patient's account to be absolutely fascinating! If only we could create an advanced BCI (brain computer interface) and somehow visualise on a display what he experienced. And I agree, this is a brilliant thread and I was so pleased to have spoken to someone fitting the requisite criteria so well.
 
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