What are some grow lights that you can reccomend? What amount of WAT is ideal or neccesary for indoor growing?

[Egzoset]

Hi again Draculic Acid69,

Ok so in a situation where they look for it they might be able to recognise it.

In reference to the human factor IMO officials just don't want to know everything there's is to know or more police budget would have to get voted over additional hiring...

Perhaps bcoz LEDs use less electricity than hps lights a couple of solar panels or a battery bank would be sufficient.

LEDs don't pre-heat like HPS lamps, this means a simple DPDT power relay feeding a pair of LED units located in separate cultivation spaces of equal (balanced) electric consumption might suffice to synchronize their 12/12 transitions perfectly, hence possibly suppressing such time-domain information previously compared to "voices", though still leaving a flat continuous pedestal as hint. Moving to a greenhouse supplemented by lights relying on some sunlight-powered battery backup will offer total isolation from the power grid except on days when weather won't cooperate, in which case absolute metronome signatures would remain a problem unless it's also attached to an autonomous dynamo running on fuel.

Another scenario i once contemplated on my wildest creative periods, when it still mattered, was just to combine autoflowers with atypical days of 16 h or so - which inspired a trio instead:

​

Although i can't exclude some trade-off in harvest vs electricity performance it seems reasonable to expect such strategy should result in shorter sessions and consequently even reduced pedestals reflecting in the bills. If viable at all then perhaps i'd also want to present a synthetic load emulating household activity to the grid side (using a buffer in between), in order to masquerade its pedestal as well... Go figure!

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[draculic acid69]

Hi again Draculic Acid69,



In reference to the human factor IMO officials just don't want to know everything there's is to know or more police budget would have to get voted over additional hiring...



LEDs don't pre-heat like HPS lamps, this means a simple DPDT power relay feeding a pair of LED units located in separate cultivation spaces of equal (balanced) electric consumption might suffice to synchronize their 12/12 transitions perfectly, hence possibly suppressing such time-domain information previously compared to "voices", though still leaving a flat continuous pedestal as hint. Moving to a greenhouse supplemented by lights relying on some sunlight-powered battery backup will offer total isolation from the power grid except on days when weather won't cooperate, in which case absolute metronome signatures would remain a problem unless it's also attached to an autonomous dynamo running on fuel.

Another scenario i once contemplated on my wildest creative periods, when it still mattered, was just to combine autoflowers with atypical days of 16 h or so - which inspired a trio instead:

​

Although i can't exclude some trade-off in harvest vs electricity performance it seems reasonable to expect such strategy should result in shorter sessions and consequently even reduced pedestals reflecting in the bills. If viable at all then perhaps i'd also want to present a synthetic load emulating household activity to the grid side (using a buffer in between), in order to masquerade its pedestal as well... Go figure!

Good day, have fun!! ☮

English please.we don't all speak electrical engineer.could u dumb it down a shade for the rest of us.

 

[draculic acid69]

Seeing as u know what your talking about on this subject can LED's covering 1-2 sq metres(average cupboard size) be run completely off car batteries recharged by solar panels(1-2 panels per sq m I'm thinking) For the odd day of no sun a battery charger or a fuel powered generator could be used but occasionally using the AC to recharge won't leave a telltale signature.any way is a solar powered battery bank led setup a possibility?can hydro now be done off the grid without generators?

 

[Egzoset]

Hi there Draculic Acid69!

...could u dumb it down a shade for the rest of us.

Sure, as a matter of fact i'll even assist in formulating a valid on-topic objection!

Can hydro now be done off the grid without generators?

There may be yet another option which everybody neglected so far: instead of attempts to mute characteristic signatures (while still leaving a garden's global consumption as hint for the meter to record) why not mask *ALL* clues by taking energy off the grid in strict synchronism with major electrical appliances as the refrigerator, freezer, water boiler:

​

​

...perhaps even baseboard heaters in winter and air-conditioning units in summer.

Of course the goal of discontinuously diverting grid eletricity without raising flags would prove complex & expensive as this relies on some uninterruptible power supply(ies) posing as an intermediary isolation buffer, with the benefit of masquerading battery charging current as simple inefficient consumption from old/cheap household devices... In any case i believe a modest garden "pedestal" can be made to vanish after being redistributed as a fraction of "normal" power-hungry activity.

Indeed it may be somewhat challenging to extract timing + associated loading information intended to turn batteries into a synthetic (fake) load capable of following household consumption like a mirror image (of lesser amplitude), but i still feel confident that's worth consideration in a context requiring privacy for small-scale LED-assisted greenhouse growing. Then it may also become necessary to include a smart water meter into the big picture...

In conclusion i persist in the opinion that LEDs promise a degree of versatility which HPS lamps cannot, while autofems would be much more forgiving about schedule issues and perhaps even non-standard days possibly cutting a session by one 3rd. In comparison connection to HPS lighting would have to be direct and result in an obvious signature which no battery stack can hide unless it's really expensive, e.g. prohibitive...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[draculic acid69]

Hi there Draculic Acid69!



Sure, as a matter of fact i'll even assist in formulating a valid on-topic objection!



There may be yet another option which everybody neglected so far: instead of attempts to mute characteristic signatures (while still leaving a garden's global consumption as hint for the meter to record) why not mask *ALL* clues by taking energy off the grid in strict synchronism with major electrical appliances as the refrigerator, freezer, water boiler:

​

​

...perhaps even baseboard heaters in winter and air-conditioning units in summer.

Of course the goal of discontinuously diverting grid eletricity without raising flags would prove complex & expensive as this relies on some uninterruptible power supply(ies) posing as an intermediary isolation buffer, with the benefit of masquerading battery charging current as simple inefficient consumption from old/cheap household devices... In any case i believe a modest garden "pedestal" can be made to vanish after being redistributed as a fraction of "normal" power-hungry activity.

Indeed it may be somewhat challenging to extract timing + associated loading information intended to turn batteries into a synthetic (fake) load capable of following household consumption like a mirror image (of lesser amplitude), but i still feel confident that's worth consideration in a context requiring privacy for small-scale LED-assisted greenhouse growing. Then it may also become necessary to include a smart water meter into the big picture...

In conclusion i persist in the opinion that LEDs promise a degree of versatility which HPS lamps cannot, while autofems would be much more forgiving about schedule issues and perhaps even non-standard days possibly cutting a session by one 3rd. In comparison connection to HPS lighting would have to be direct and result in an obvious signature which no battery stack can hide unless it's really expensive, e.g. prohibitive...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

So yes to my idea or no?
Can it be done off the grid using only a few solar panels?

 

[Blowmonkey]

A car battery, no way, those things are 12v and won't last long if used continually. A few good solar panels nowadays could deliver the wattage for led, but you need to be using it with a standalone inverter to be using it off grid, which uses different and better kind of batteries for storage, the terminology escapes me.

 

[Egzoset]

Euh... What's the budget in thousands of dollars??

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

A quality modern LED grow light has a switching power supply so it appears identical in electrical signature as a computer so you shouldn't have to worry about it being noticed by a smart meter on a 1 - 2 square meter grow. MH and HPS leave a distinctive curve that is easily detected by the Inrush current that occurs whenever you start the lamp. . Containing the smell will be a much greater challenge. I have used around 350 watts of LED's in one square meter for quite a few years and it produces strong vigorous plants that are as productive as when I used 750 watts of HPS in the same space previously.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations White_Rose,

A quality modern LED grow light has a switching power supply so it appears identical in electrical signature as a computer...

This sounds acurate enough, too bad i was clearly focussed on a 12h/12h signature, characteristic of timers behaving as absolute (crystal-precision) metronomes. In addition lets keep in mind my proposal to split the session between a pair of twin cultivation spaces (with balanced power consumption perfectly synchronized by a single SPDT power relay...) should have made it even more obvious, considering it does nothing to mask that timer's 2 transitions-a-day spectrum which differs by many orders of magnitude from PSU chopping noise, since 60 sec x 60 sec x 24 h (e.g. 1 day On/Off cycle) = 86400 sec = 0.00001157407 Hz transitions actually... Moreover i was only assuming fortunate cases dealing with a modest daily sampling rate, for example 4 times every hour, which excludes HF signals for all practical purposes.

...you shouldn't have to worry about it being noticed by a smart meter on a 1 - 2 square meter grow.

That's totally misleading and i already explained why in sufficient details, including via graphic illustrations... Briefly put, the On/Off 12/12 transitions can't escape a zero-loss antenna while switching power in the multi-hundred Watts range, especially when it's time-coherent this much. Then there's the human factor making its contribution, YMMV.

Containing the smell will be a much greater challenge.

That's only more agravation which also requires proper consideration. How about avoiding Infra-Red cameras? It turns out i personally witnessed a police car stopping right in front of a house near the neighbourhood, a few hours past midnight, so the cop would leave his vehicule and aim for a clear view, in principle with nobody else around... Though my recollection is too foggy to remember if there was a flash. Anyway imagine what a trio of drones equiped with such devices and a GPS might accomplish! My appologies if that feels anxiogenic/paranoïac, in other words in a "legaleezed" province as mine there's no 100 % stealthy solution to spare decent people from playing cat 'n mouse.

Yet it's still supporting a preference for LEDs as these can be made power-efficient on top of providing excellent agilitity for the simpler synchronized low-profile scenarios (only depending on a relay in absence of a "buffer" based on batteries allowing suppression of the continuous component as well).

Indeed HPS is outdated wasteful technogy in any case.

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Blowmonkey]

I read some datasheets for some of those meanwell drivers they always seem to recommend everywhere, also a couple of philips and tci ones cause I've bought all kinds of cheap stuff everywhere, but those inrush currents of some of those things scare the f out of me, way higher than you'd expect. When you've got multiple hooked up in series that still creates a big strain on your network, sometimes bigger than from one of those newer hps vsa's, which usually have soft starts built in anyways.

Hps is still the only thing that saves a winter grow without having to add additional heating, because keeping something warm in the winter with just white leds is gonna lead to dissapointment, ime. Shit insulation, cold climate, not going to blast them with 1500 watts just to keep them warm, rather put on the hps, mixes ok with leds on the side. That's why you see so much experimentation with infrared leds, far reds, uv, etc.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Blowmonkey,

...soft starts built in anyways. HPS is still the only thing that saves a winter grow without having to add additional heating...

Indeed, it even sounds logical in a world free of "smart" meters. Quite regretably those days belong to the past so it would sound more appropriate to me if such lamp could be controlled by a thermostat making it appear like a baseboard heater during the cold seasons, though it's still going to advertise its presence through warmup times ranging in minutes while i got to wonder how the plants would react. The only way i can imagine to absolutely suppress some 12/12 timer signature with an HPS lamp attached is by relying on a battery-based buffer and then it's the charging rate which must be disguised, hopefully with external complement energy input from the sunlight of a greenhouse.

...not going to blast them with 1500 watts just to keep them warm...

Well this reminds me when i experimented with plenty of 4200 °K CFLs to keep cotyledons short, my reasoning being that distance would be a lesser problem (in terms of penetration). Actually i also recall residual heat caused the baseboard heater to tame down during a late automn session, then flowering arrived and i needed to add more light.

It makes me sad and nostalgic to have those recollections, before there used to be a time when i was hoping the hobby to provide me with perpetual enlightment, a sense of peace and serenity while i'd be discovering new fragrances from my rocking chair. Today i'd be living in a most sterile environment if it weren't for a handful geraniums which rarely grow a single button until summer arrives, while it's "legal" to home-grow cannabis in the other provinces. Honestly, it should be considered the next best thing after zootherapy. Soon we'll only find "soleil vert" to eat instead, then elders shall naturally welcome euthanasia. It's called progress...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Aeon Psyche]

Is it known what type of effect, UV light would have on cannabis?

 

[thujone]

A car battery, no way, those things are 12v and won't last long if used continually. A few good solar panels nowadays could deliver the wattage for led, but you need to be using it with a standalone inverter to be using it off grid, which uses different and better kind of batteries for storage, the terminology escapes me.

in general the lead-acid batteries don't live very long with frequent deep discharges, they're fine for continuous power delivery as long as it's a bank of them that can stay topped up before they are drained to <~70%

the old-school cockroach battery is NiCd, those can cope with total discharge well. Now though for prosumer applications Li-ion is more common and can handle discharge down to ~30% without affecting lifespan, but those are pretty expensive so for off-grid uses a lot of people still stick to a larger bank of cheaper lead-acid batteries that is matched to the charging capacity and energy usage to keep them above 70%