Misc well studied safe downers?

[deruyityn]

I bought some flourophenibut and took a tiny allergy test but I was so stressed out and having hystrionics over the slightest twing in my body I couldn't handle the stress and threw it away.

I would like a well studied derpessant that is known to be not bad for the body. It defeats the purpose taking an anxiolytic which is a research chemical for me because I am constantly anxious due to the unknown factor.

Kava I have not got on with so that is off the list. Tried in many permutations and never found it acceptable.

Phenibut seems the logical choice except my fear of that monstrous withdrawal ramp.

Ghb sounds perfect for my hypochondriac nature being totally non toxic if I were able to control the dosing and not get addicted though the dangers of course scare me.

benzoes would fit the criteria of well studied and safeish however they cause permanent brain damage don't they?

Im talking about something for once per week use.

 

[keeping]

if you're only going to do it once a week i would say clonazolam, but could you really keep your habit to just once a week? what about if you have a particularly bad Tuesday (god damn we all have those)? benzos are linked to Alzheimers, meh

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Hydroxyzine or L-Theanine?

 

[Intense]

My short term memory is fucked. Benzos...

 

[Speed King]

The thread is leaning toward the natural side. OP, if you have to ask, you don't know. Very smart to ask. Kava, L- Theanine, chamomile , valerian root, are all excellent natural herbs. Now, there are no fast answers in this situation. I highly suggest that you google what I listed. Each one. Example, I really like kava. I also like valerian root. They are all great. I suggest you look into those first. Natural is better, IMO. If you don't need them, benzodiazepines are not the answer, at least at the start.

This is a harm reduction forum. This is a process.

Try anything I listed. You'd be supprised how well they work in a pinch.

If you have any real problems, I can only tell you to get a referral and see a psychiatrist. Now a days, GP's usually don't like dealing with real issues.

 

[Solipsis]

if you're only going to do it once a week i would say clonazolam, but could you really keep your habit to just once a week? what about if you have a particularly bad Tuesday (god damn we all have those)? benzos are linked to Alzheimers, meh

Yeah I'd use theanine for the regular use and a benzo for a very bad day only sporadically, also preferably one with a studied and reasonable risk profile rather than a research chemical, if possible. Other than the 'RC rating', I'd generally try to stay away from the high potency ones that can cause more mind wipe.

But if you concede that you are constantly anxious, keep yourself straight and realistic on whether weekly benzo use is enough. Sure, if you keep a wide margin you can decide rationally on how much will just have to be enough.

Benzos have become a little associated but may be just correlated with Alzheimer's, and higher risk of general dementia in elderly who are sensitive in the mental department is not so weird considering what they do. Alzheimer's which ruins cognition via plaques etc seems kinda separate of an issue though. It may not be that associated after all: http://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i90.

Still leaves plenty of less chronic reasons why benzo's are a - unfortunately sometimes necessary - bane.

 

[Speed King]

OP, ^^^ to back this up, benzodiazepines are not horrible drugs. They can end up becoming a heavy band aid for certain people. They can kill if used incorrectly. If you have to go there(you really have to talk to a psych doc, IMO) regardless of panic attack or gad, the long acting ones are better overall because they last and IMO, can be tapered off easier. 0.5 Clonazepam can chill you out easy.

Don't abuse, don't escalate the dose, be smart and they may be a benifit to you.

 

[deruyityn]

I still like the sound of ghb the most since it is oh so good for you though of course it doesn't have the dose safety margin of benzoes.

I imagine if you really made it a goal - rather than a loose idea in the back of your mind - you could use it therapeutically without escalating? If you saw it like a plan that you are always aiming to stick to like a diet or something.

I read that laborit took that 3 times a week all the way up to his death without ill effect. Though 3 sounds a bit much it is a good case study of responsible use.

 

[Speed King]

No moderator will say GHB. IMO, bad idea. The benzo route at the lowest dose needed would be your best bet. Also, tbh, I have never had GHB. If I do, my stance may change.

 

[Sobrietysucks]

I still like the sound of ghb the most since it is oh so good for you though of course it doesn't have the dose safety margin of benzoes.

I imagine if you really made it a goal - rather than a loose idea in the back of your mind - you could use it therapeutically without escalating? If you saw it like a plan that you are always aiming to stick to like a diet or something.

I read that laborit took that 3 times a week all the way up to his death without ill effect. Though 3 sounds a bit much it is a good case study of responsible use.

From what I've been told GhB/Xyrem (GbL is even better) will give you the best and most legit sleep ever. Better than regular sleep. The draw back is the short half life. You have to continue redosing it otherwise it will wear off quick. Also it said to be more euphoric than Phenibut (one of the most PRO SOCIAL gaba/anti anxiety drug I tried). Sadly I dunno where to get ghb so maybe that's a good thing cause it sounds incredible.

 

[Thomas29]

Benzo use once every 8TH DAY meaning after 7 days recovery i used no more then 3 mg clonazepam in 1 night or 1mg over 3 nights and then stopped for 7 days and used again on 8th day or later. Only Daily Benzodiazepine Use will cause Brain Shrinking exact same way Alcohol Shrinks the Brain from everyday Use, This happens even with Prescribed Low Doses Daily of any Benzodiazepine and Z drug I assume same thing/diff.

 

[poodle448]

benzoes would fit the criteria of well studied and safeish however they cause permanent brain damage don't they?

I honestly cannot say that I have ever heard this. Can somebody elaborate on this, please?

 

[Mycophile]

Benzo use once every 8TH DAY meaning after 7 days recovery i used no more then 3 mg clonazepam in 1 night or 1mg over 3 nights and then stopped for 7 days and used again on 8th day or later. Only Daily Benzodiazepine Use will cause Brain Shrinking exact same way Alcohol Shrinks the Brain from everyday Use, This happens even with Prescribed Low Doses Daily of any Benzodiazepine and Z drug I assume same thing/diff.

I do NOT believe that they DEFINITELY will cause brain problems.

I have severe anxiety and I've NEEDED and taken 1.0-.1.5mgs of Klonopin daily for over 10 years now with only stopping for 9 months at one point and when I tried to stop, even though I didn't get WDs, I was then unable to deal with life for the same reasons as before I started.

I wish people would stop saying that they DEFINITELY cause brain shrinking and alzheimers because as far as I know this is NOT proven definitively.

I've never had memory issues or really any issues other than a little sedation and the pros FAR outweight the cons IF you really need them but I dont' abuse them and stick to my usual dose.

IF I can skip a dose here and there I do, but overall I need them for my mental health.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14731058

CONCLUSION:
Moderate-to-large weighted effect sizes were found for all cognitive domains suggesting that long-term benzodiazepine users were significantly impaired, compared with controls, in all of the areas that were assessed. However, this study has several limitations, one being that it includes a relatively small number of studies. Further studies need to be conducted; ideally, well designed, controlled studies that thoroughly investigate certain areas of cognitive functioning and present data in such a way so as to be amenable to inclusion in a meta-analysis. Incorporating the information from these studies into a larger meta-analysis would allow for a more thorough and statistically sound investigation of the effects of moderator variables. The observation that long-term benzodiazepine use leads to a generalised effect on cognition has numerous implications for the informed and responsible prescription of these drugs.

http://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i90

Conclusion
The risk of dementia is slightly higher in people with minimal exposure to benzodiazepines but not with the highest level of exposure. These results do not support a causal association between benzodiazepine use and dementia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15762814

In an attempt to settle this debate, meta-analyses of peer-reviewed studies were conducted and found that cognitive dysfunction did in fact occur in patients treated long term with benzodiazepines, and although cognitive dysfunction improved after benzodiazepines were withdrawn, patients did not return to levels of functioning that matched benzodiazepine-free controls. Neuroimaging studies have found transient changes in the brain after benzodiazepine administration but no brain abnormalities in patients treated long term with benzodiazepines. Such findings suggest that patients should be advised of potential cognitive effects when treated long term with benzodiazepines, although they should also be informed that the impact of such effects may be insignificant in the daily functioning of most patients.

 

[deruyityn]

Ok so would brain damage not be an issue for sporadic use that I am aiming for?

I wondered if the damage is like you only have a finite 'storage' say and any usage would cause the gradual degredation; or is it more that the prolonged and constant exposure causes the damage so sporadic usage would allow the brain to restore itself to normal level such that it would never 'degrade'.

Ok if ghb were not recomended what would be considered better out of phenibut and benzoes? the former seems more 'natural' since it is so closely related to gaba however it seems more dangerous in terms of dependence risk. Plus I don't like long onset/lasting drugs. I prefer short onset and expulsion so then I can more easily control the effects.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

^I really doubt that sporadic use of benzos would lead to brain damage

Imo before you take phenibut/a benzo try L-Theanine it's an amino acid and ime it's great for anxiety (particulary weed induced panik attacks) and helps you to chill while ime there are no side effects

 

[Sobrietysucks]

The thing about Phenibut ghb and benzo is that they will WORK. Almost too well. They will make all your problems and worries go away. Thats the main reason to avoid, because they actually work lol.t heyre no different than l theanine kava or other natural stuff, they are just way more effective. If you take something that doesn't work that great or dont like it too much, you wont get addicted to it. I think that's what the mods are trying to get at.


You said you dont like anything long lang lasting then ghb is your best bet. Lasts couple hours tops. If you can use it like that I dont see the problem. Just because some people use ghb 24/7 doesn't mean its bad.

 

[deruyityn]

^I really doubt that sporadic use of benzos would lead to brain damage

Imo before you take phenibut/a benzo try L-Theanine it's an amino acid and ime it's great for anxiety (particulary weed induced panik attacks) and helps you to chill while ime there are no side effects

Ive tried all the herbal shit once, twice ten times.

theanine is on par with valerian. ie it sucks. and gives me chest pains if I have more than like 150mg.

 

[keeping]

well i guess the best choice for you is benzos, as long as you don't mind horrible withdrawals and possible grand-mal seizures.
nbd.

enjoy your safe downers

 

[sekio]

chamomile tea