Weed triggers psychotic episodes, can I use more powerful psychedelics?

[Red_Drifter]

Alright, here's a bit of background info. I started smoking weed a little less than a year ago, and, for about 5 months, I would smoke just about every night. After that, I took a break for about three weeks, and one of my buddies hooked me up with an eighth(not sure what strain). It didn't look like anything I had smoked before, but I'm not sure if that matters. That night, I smoked about 2 grams from a bong(that was the most I had ever smoked in one sitting, and I had never used a bong before), and I wound up having the most terrifying night of my life. It was so disturbing that I actually developed PTSD, and reality still feels a little "off". I don't think it's necessary to retell my experience, and since I could write a novel about it, despite the fact that I don't even really remember it(I just sort of have fragmented bits of memory that don't really fit into any chronological order). However, if anyone thinks it would be helpful to know what I experienced, I can try to describe it to the best of my ability, though it was absolutely indescribably, so it may not truly reflect the actual experience.

After my first episode, I tried smoking little bits at a time(just pinches of finely ground pieces), and I seemed to be ok for a while, but eventually, I had another episode, not quite as jarring as the first, but still enough to shake me to my core. In my infinite wisdom, I continued smoking and had a third episode. After the third episode, I lost the ability to sleep for a good 72 hours, and I wound up in the hospital for a few days after having a manic episode from sleep deprivation. That was a few months ago, and I have since then gotten rid of all my weed and paraphernalia.

My dad and I have done a lot of research since then and found that what I experienced was likely a series psychotic episodes, and that THC can trigger psychotic episodes in individuals who posses some genetic marker having to do with serotonin and dopamine production, which I happen to possess.

Recently, I've been thinking about trying salvia, and I'd like to try shrooms at least once. However, if THC can trigger these episodes, I'm not sure if I should attempt anything more powerful. I intend to consult a doctor about this before trying any substances, but I figured I'd ask around to see if anyone who may have knowledge in this area has any input.

Thanks in advance!

 

[T. Calderone]

Hi Red and welcome to Bluelight! I would be leery in trying psychedelics since you had bad episodes from weed.
I'm going to move this over to Psychedelic Drugs and they may have some words of wisdom for you.

 

[Doclad]

Good afternoon.


A while ago I abused marijuana, and I had strong psychotic episodes along with an unbearable OCD. It was difficult for me to leave the marijuana, but finally I was able to do it. Even so, these episodes accompanied me for a few months afterwards, and they caused me a lot of anxiety and depression.
During this time I took Mushrooms and 4-ho-Met without any problem. I can even say that they helped me to analyze from a better perspective these mental problems induced by the excessive consumption of marijuana.

After taking psychedelics (tryptamines) I had an overwhelming return of all these negative thoughts, but instead of panicking as I used to do in marijuana, I simply "opened" them and contemplated them. As a kind of meditation. They helped me a lot to overcome those traumas.
Today I enjoy cannabinoids and I am fully recovered.

Beware, I'm not recommending you take other psychedelics, I just drop my two cents and my personal experience.

And another important thing ... there is a false belief that cannabinoids are minor psychedelics, and it is not true. No need to mention the synthetics ... since the forum is full of heartbreaking travel reports. THC is also a potent cannabinoid, and honestly ... in my 12 years of diverse drug use ... few things have come close to the psychotic intensity of marijuana.


DocLad

 

[trogere]

For me, weed has always been weird and paranoid. But, I was fine with MDMA, ketamine, speed, salvia, allylescaline, 5-Meo-Dalt, GHB, Kava Kava, ... When it comes to LSD and mushrooms/4-Aco-DMT, I had some nice trips, and some hard ones.

I have known many regulars with MDMA and ketamine who weren't able to smoke weed without bad effects.

If you really want to trip, start with low doses. Also, in your case, avoid mixing weed with other drugs. LSD + weed can be terrible on some people.

 

[phuckingnutz]

.......My dad and I have done a lot of research since then and found that what I experienced was likely a series psychotic episodes, and that THC can trigger psychotic episodes in individuals who posses some genetic marker having to do with serotonin and dopamine production, which I happen to possess......
Thanks in advance!

Well, the Dopamine/Serotonin thing makes me think you might want to rethink the Psychedelics.
I know for sure you should NOT smoke weed if/when you try psychs tho.

 

[Red_Drifter]

Before trying any new substances, I will be consulting a doctor to see if it is possible to isolate the cause behind the psychotic episodes and to hopefully determine whether or not I can handle psychedelics.

 

[Speed King]

Red_Drifter, Cannabis is a medicine that even after 2,000+ years of human usage, we still are discovering what it does and how it effects us. I had a minor issue with cannabis and panic, when I was younger. What I suggest is abstaining from Cannabis for a period of a few weeks to a month, till whenever. I mean if weed jacks you up, L, mushrooms or other misc trips may not help and are not suggested. I did say may.It depends on what the root issue is. I mean if your super stressed and have acid reflux because of it, that can be terror on Cannabis alone.Your brain simply has to relax a bit. Eventually you may wish to try Cannabis again. I suggest a slower pace. Try a few different strains and see what works best. I suggest a indica based strain.Now, there is also the possibility that it was: really good weed and the ingestion method and the amount ingested straight to the dome, may have helped cause the issue(s).This thread is helping others who view it. I will answer accordingly. Some people like to lace their stash with cannabinoids. I have had a similar mix. I had this bud that looked darker then usual and tasted slightly different. It was good stuff. A one hitter of "regular" great weed, would get me "high" with peak effects trailing off within a few hours. This other herb kept me pretty blazed for over 4 hours off a one hitter.For future reference, ask questions like "is this herb cut or dusted w/ anything" You may have tripped out due to the bud having another chemical addededJust give your body a break. Fix the simple things nowI will will admit that some people will never get it.

 

[PerpetualAnhedonic]

Red_Drifter, Cannabis is a medicine that even after 2,000+ years of human usage, we still are discovering what it does and how it effects us. I had a minor issue with cannabis and panic, when I was younger. What I suggest is abstaining from Cannabis for a period of a few weeks to a month, till whenever. I mean if weed jacks you up, L, mushrooms or other misc trips may not help and are not suggested. I did say may.It depends on what the root issue is. I mean if your super stressed and have acid reflux because of it, that can be terror on Cannabis alone.Your brain simply has to relax a bit. Eventually you may wish to try Cannabis again. I suggest a slower pace. Try a few different strains and see what works best. I suggest a indica based strain.Now, there is also the possibility that it was: really good weed and the ingestion method and the amount ingested straight to the dome, may have helped cause the issue(s).This thread is helping others who view it. I will answer accordingly. Some people like to lace their stash with cannabinoids. I have had a similar mix. I had this bud that looked darker then usual and tasted slightly different. It was good stuff. A one hitter of "regular" great weed, would get me "high" with peak effects trailing off within a few hours. This other herb kept me pretty blazed for over 4 hours off a one hitter.For future reference, ask questions like "is this herb cut or dusted w/ anything" You may have tripped out due to the bud having another chemical addededJust give your body a break. Fix the simple things nowI will will admit that some people will never get it.

Much of this is what I was gonna say. Sounds very possible (if not likely) that OP was fed some synthetics....

I too, had difficulties with panic on cannabis when I was much younger. But never any psychotic episodes.

OP, it would be highly advisable that you do not try these substances, at least not for now.

Also, a post above claimed that cannabis is not a hallucinogen/psychedelic and that people falsely believe it is.....unfortunately, HE/SHE is the one with false information. It is actually, indeed, scientifically and officially classified as one.

-PA

 

[Hodor]

Cannabis may be considered a psychedelic, it is just not a "classical" psychedelic, which would be one that affects your 5HT2A serotonin receptors. That said, this forum groups dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) under "Psychedelic Drugs", and presumably the same applies to salvia (kappa opioid agonists), deliriants (anticholinergics) or muscimol (GABA agonists).

IMO, it isn't unrealistic that abusing cannabis (as in "consuming large doses on a daily basis") could trigger psychosis in susceptible individuals; blaming it all on synthetics could lull people into a false sense of security.

The thing about psychedelics is that their abuse liability is much lower, due to the ultra-rapid tolerance development and the generally unpredictable nature of the psychedelic experience. On the other hand, the chance of developing psychosis from a single trip is much higher with classical psychedelics than it is with THC.

However, I would agree with the other posters that someone who has had several psychotic episodes should probably abstain from anything that might disrupt the balance of their brain chemistry for the time being.

 

[Red_Drifter]

Cannabis may be considered a psychedelic, it is just not a "classical" psychedelic, which would be one that affects your 5HT2A serotonin receptors.

IMO, it isn't unrealistic that abusing cannabis (as in "consuming large doses on a daily basis") could trigger psychosis in susceptible individuals; blaming it all on synthetics could lull people into a false sense of security.

The thing about psychedelics is that their abuse liability is much lower, due to the ultra-rapid tolerance development and the generally unpredictable nature of the psychedelic experience. On the other hand, the chance of developing psychosis from a single trip is much higher with psychedelics than it is with THC.

However, I would agree with the other posters that someone who has had several psychotic episodes should probably abstain from anything that might disrupt the balance of their brain chemistry for the time being.

It would be at least a year until I could try new substances anyway, as I would need to cultivate them myself, and I can't do that until I move into a new place. I live in a pretty small town, where anything other than weed is very hard to come by, and ridiculously marked up. In that time, I could hopefully isolate the root cause, and, if necessary, rebalance my brain chemistry if necessary.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

What was the last time you have a psychotic breakthrouht?. How do you feel now?.

First of all, I would let time pass. Once you feel 100% stable, maybe, only maybe, I would try quite low dose of a short acting psychedelic. Salvia is tricky in the dosage and effects so I wouldnt advise to take it.

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Personally, i would move forward very slowly.

I have used drugs for 25 years, this has increased and decreased a lot as you can imagine over this time. However, after stopping weed at 24 because it was not good for my mind, it took 10 years before i could approach it again. I learnt restraint and how strong a small amount really is. ( perhaps smoked about 3 or 4 grams last year).

I have used many other drugs and in very high amounts.
Stimulants, i back ed off and on becuase i want to live a long time.
Mdma, well, its awesome but you learn to slow it down and take very very long breaks so it can actuslly be appreciated ongoing.

Now, psychedelics , i went hard here too. Lots of LSD, mushrooms, and LSA. But even, DMT, 2ce, 2ci, etc. I could go on. But one night, i had a bad event on a psychedelic and decided I must not do any more so i can keep my mind stable. Thst was 10 years ago. I miss the fun but havent tsken any more since.

My point is, progress very slowly, weed is warning you. It may be okcto proceed, but it may be this class of drugs arent ok for you.

My dripug use today is very limited, it consists of some stims and some dissociatives.
I will have mdma again, weed in the right setting only ( alone for me) and no psychedelics. Note i wouldnt say i have had episodes but have had warnings. If i could follow my desires though, geez, bring on the drugs i want to try so many more..... but alas, i follow my internal wisdom and guidance

 

[Red_Drifter]

What was the last time you have a psychotic breakthrouht?. How do you feel now?.

First of all, I would let time pass. Once you feel 100% stable, maybe, only maybe, I would try quite low dose of a short acting psychedelic. Salvia is tricky in the dosage and effects so I wouldnt advise to take it.

What would you describe as a short acting psychedelic?

 

[Hexagon Sun]

What would you describe as a short acting psychedelic?

The ones that last 3-6hs. 2cc, 2cb, 2cd, most 4-x-triptamines. I would go for any of the 2c-s listed here, as they are extremely friendly, gentle and easy in light to medium doses.

 

[pupnik]

A) Weed is one of the strongest psychedelics by dose, and you had a lot, and it opened up a world in which time operates illogically, and if you panicked, and you were stuck in that panick loop for a while, then this is now one of your memories which will not go away (thank god memory works, but too bad at the same time that the panic experience lasted long enough and looped so many times that it made strong memories.)
YOU ARE NORMAL.

B) Medical doctors actually DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT ABOUT PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE, So I would save the money, and if you went I expect they would give you a script for prozac if you are lucky and lithium if you are less lucky, and you will be absorbed into the psychiatric register.

C) as Doclad mentioned above, by using a moderate dose of a slow psychedelic you can learn to relax into your pain, into your tension, and into your fear, using awareness. EG 1/4 or 1/2 dose of LSD or lysergamide or shrooms.

D) Salvia which is a fast acting short duration psychedelic gives you an opportunity to relax into sudden states, and it is so short acting that any "psychosis" will be short, and therefore less memorable.

E) eventually you will be able to enjoy cannabis again with awareness and intermittent intentional pause/relax/immerse/let-go type efforts.

 

[Speed King]

The ones that last 3-6hs. 2cc, 2cb, 2cd, most 4-x-triptamines. I would go for any of the 2c-s listed here, as they are extremely friendly, gentle and easy in light to medium doses.

A helpful short (subjectively) substance is DMT

 

[Red_Drifter]

A helpful short (subjectively) substance is DMT

DMT kinda freaks me out. I'm probably gonna steer clear of it for a while.

 

[tacodude]

This seems like it's getting into the "what drug should I take?" Terratory. Just pointing it out and also will add red you shouldn't fear DMT.... Psilocybin and psilocin are both analogs of DMT. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't take saying, but I'm saying you should decide what you do.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Salvia is the last psychedelic I'd recommend to anyone, let alone someone who has not tried any psychedelic drugs and has issues with weed.

That said, I know a good handful of people who trip just fine but cannot for the life of them handle THC. A buddy of mine eats more mushrooms than anyone I know but weed straight wrecks him.

Weed just effects some people in a really intense way mentally. I smoke all the time, but I've certainly been there where I feel like I'm on the brink of freaking out from hitting a bong too hard or eating too potent of an edible. But reading your description, I'd probably just steer clear since your reaction seems quite a bit more pronounced than others.

 

[Speed King]

This seems like it's getting into the "what drug should I take?" Terratory. Just pointing it out and also will add red you shouldn't fear DMT.... Psilocybin and psilocin are both analogs of DMT. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't take saying, but I'm saying you should decide what you do.

We are a harm reduction site. All glad to give a few examples, but taco is correct. We gave some excellent researched classics.

That?s simply metadata. This has to get back or closer to the main point. Feel free OP or whomever to utfse for more in depth information like the excellent information received here.