Was prescribted gabapentin and it's driving me crazy

[everteen]

For pain relief. First few uses were kinda good, but now I just feel delusional. Not thinking normally, thoughts are aggressive and little on the delusional side. This stuff sucks. What do I do?

 

[T. Calderone]

How much gabapentin are you taking and are you using any other drugs? Maybe you need some time to get adjusted to it.
If your symptoms don't improve, talk with your doctor.

 

[everteen]

Dunno if this appropriate post this for this forum, but I'm in a desperate situation.

Doctor recommended not to take gabapentin anymore. And it messed up my psyche so much I don't to want to take those anymore. But the problem is that it did dull the intense pain I have due to pulled muscle and pain is so severe it's immobilizing without any real pain relief. But because I'm a known addict to social and medical services I'm not given receipt for even codeine-based painkillers, which is is laughable in my opionion. Like I would get any high from little amounts of codeine. It would dull the pain just enough.

I got some opiates, but the problem is that is one of them is burpnorphine, which blocks other opioids for days. But does it work that way if I first use other opioids, two oxycontin pills ja 20 panacods and only after then change to bupe? Or do I still have to wait for them get out my system or get withdrawals from bupe? High isn't important at all all now, I'm not even regular opioid user at all and I only need those to ease intense pain. So I need only little amounts, just enough take edge off the pain. I guess alcohol would also the trick if I first have to to wait other opioids leaving my system.

But the pain without any pain relief medication is so bad that sometimes jumping from a bridge seems like a good idea to end it.

 

[Nod Alot]

Yeah don’t mix bupe with other opioids. It has a strong block on your receptors that lasts ~72 hours depending on the dose. If I were you I’d only use it if you experience opioid withdrawal when stopping the other pills. And only in the smallest effective amount. Like .5-1mg.

 

[everteen]

So if I use other opioids first, then it's 72 hours of pain before I can dull the pain with bupe? I know the pain will outlast other opioids I have. I've had this problem before and it can last 1-2 months.

edit: thinking error. I mean if I use other opioids first, they need to be out of my system before switching the bupe? Or get withdrawals?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Well, if you're having a negative reaction to the Gabapentin (Neurontin) then I don't see any reason to continue taking it. It's unfortunate that it's effective in some way for your pain, but the side-effects aren't bearable.

Regarding your Opioid usage. Other posters have covered the gist pretty well. The key is that you really cannot use full Opioid agonists in conjunction with Buprenorphine. As others have explained, Buprenorphine blocks the effects of other Opioids. The good thing is that both Buprenorphine and full-agonists have a nearly equal potential to produce powerful analgesia. You simply have to strategize in a way that will maximize the effects of each drug. Use them separately and you can derive benefit (analgesia) from both. Buprenorphine, in case you are unaware, is used clinically as a painkiller in its own right, in addition to its much more publicized usage as a maintenance treatment for Opioid addiction.

Just for reference, dosages of Buprenorphine for analgesia strictly are typically a fraction of what might be used for maintenance. Dosages of .4mg intravenously are typical, whereas a typical maintenance dose is up to 32mg per day (which is overkill in my opinion).

 

[everteen]

Just for reference, dosages of Buprenorphine for analgesia strictly are typically a fraction of what might be used for maintenance. Dosages of .4mg intravenously are typical, whereas a typical maintenance dose is up to 32mg per day (which is overkill in my opinion).

I know. I've used it once before. Impossible to give exact amount, but it was probably only 0.3-0.4 mg and it was really powerful even sublingually. Like I said, high is irrevelant. I don't even care for opioid high that much. I just need opioids to dull the pain (of course it won't remove pain completely, but makes it tolerable) and doctors refuse to prescribe even codeine-based medications, just to cover their own ass.

My tolerance is zero and the last time I had the same problem, they didn't yet know I'm an addict and even then 60 mg codeine with 1000 mg paracetamol (panacod) was always enough to dull the pain. Used those for about a month.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Talk to your doctor. Tell him/her what's happening, about any other drugs you take or are taking both legally and illegally. You will no get into legal trouble for doing this.

Ask him/her for a recommendation for a different medication.

 

[everteen]

Talk to your doctor. Tell him/her what's happening, about any other drugs you take or are taking both legally and illegally. You will no get into legal trouble for doing this.

Ask him/her for a recommendation for a different medication.

Been talking to multiple doctors in the last few days. The other medication they offer is venlafaxin or some SSRI medication. No, thanks. If I destroy my natural serotonin levels and production, it at least needs to give me a high.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Been talking to multiple doctors in the last few days. The other medication they offer is venlafaxin or some SSRI medication. No, thanks. If I destroy my natural serotonin levels and production, it at least needs to give me a high.

SSRIs do not destroy your serotonin levels, they just simply make you gradually produce more serotonin.

I'd take the advice of your doctors, since you don't have a medical degree and are not a doctor or medical professional.

 

[everteen]

SSRIs do not destroy your serotonin levels, they just simply make you gradually produce more serotonin.

I'd take the advice of your doctors, since you don't have a medical degree and are not a doctor or medical professional.

I trust doctors, but I don't trust the field controlled by big pharma. They're clearly lobbing medical authorities around the world to prescribe their new more or less dubious substances, because patents for their older substances have expired. And medical authorities seems to go along, prescribing dangerous drugs like quetiapine like candy for example sleeping problems. That's why I don't trust them and are very reserved to what they say and prescribe. When it comes to drugs, I trust people on this forum much more than any regular doctor. This site seems to have real experts.

But enough of that bs. To the real point of SSRI and SNRI not being neurotoxic? Really? Net is full of claims from (supposed) experts that they're neurotoxic - are they bs? And if the pain relief venlafaxine gives leaves more to be desired, can I boost it with occasional opioids? And many say venlafaxine has hellish WD's.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I trust doctors, but I don't trust the field controlled by big pharma. They're clearly lobbing medical authorities around the world to prescribe their new more or less dubious substances, because patents for their older substances have expired. And medical authorities seems to go along, prescribing dangerous drugs like quetiapine like candy for example sleeping problems. That's why I don't trust them and are very reserved to what they say and prescribe. When it comes to drugs, I trust people on this forum much more than any regular doctor. This site seems to have real experts.

But enough of that bs. To the real point of SSRI and SNRI not being neurotoxic? Really? Net is full of claims from (supposed) experts that they're neurotoxic - are they bs? And if the pain relief venlafaxine gives leaves more to be desired, can I boost it with occasional opioids? And many say venlafaxine has hellish WD's.

SSRIs are not neurotoxic.

Long-term use of SSRIs is not only very safe but studies have shown that SSRIs are actually neuroprotective/neurotrophic.

 

[everteen]

SSRIs are not neurotoxic.

Long-term use of SSRIs is not only very safe but studies have shown that SSRIs are actually neuroprotective/neurotrophic.

I believe you. But I came to the conclusion that venlafaxine is potentially a very dangerous drug to me. It's supposedly very hard to quit and it doesn't mix with many drugs well. If I'm on it, can't quit it and then relapse to MDMA or speed (who knows what crap is added to it), it can be fatal. And apparently doesn't mix well with cannabis either.

Even if the intention is to quit drugs completely, it's childishly optimistic to go with the assumption that I can quit completely and never relapse. If I'm on venlafaxine and relapse to MDMA, that might be it.

 

[Keif' Richards]

SSRIs do not destroy your serotonin levels, they just simply make you gradually produce more serotonin.

I'd take the advice of your doctors, since you don't have a medical degree and are not a doctor or medical professional.

SSRI's do not make you produce more Serotonin. They limit the rate at which Serotonin is reabsorbed, increasing the levels of available serotonin at any given moment. I'm sorry to nitpick you Priest, I don't enjoy it one bit. Also, you're gonna hate me for this, I don't think there's any reason at this point to walk into a Doctor's office and have OP totally spill their guts regarding all of the drugs they use. There are times, when consequences can be quite serious, that there is no way around telling the truth, but we have to keep in mind that dealing with the medical establishment is not purely "black and white" like we would like it to be. Being a known addict can close a lot of doors to treatments that could indeed be quite effective.

Imagine having terrible Trigeminal Neuralgia for instance. Gabapentin (Neurontin) or Pregabalin (Lyrica) might be effective treatments for this condition and they are both known to be safe in nearly every sense of the word, but because OP is a "known drug addict", these "safe" drugs might now be off the table as the prescriber believes that OP will just abuse the drugs. You can see how this "honesty" can actually be a huge ball and chain for folks, so I really discourage telling your doctor that you're an Opioid addict unless you absolutely must.

Anyway, OP, you're right that SNRI's like Venlafaxine (Effexor) can be quite difficult to withdraw from. I don't have personal experience with them, but members of my family (Maternal Grandmother & aunt) as well as plenty of other BL'ers have expressed great difficulty when withdrawing from these medications. My grandmother was left completely unable to function for two weeks and she was a "farmer's wife" who woke up every morning at 4 to begin chores and went to sleep at 9. I'm not saying that anyone should exclude these treatments from the prospective treatment; if they work really well and will indeed have a positive effect on their life, then I believe you simply must do a cost/benefit analysis.

It's just like being in extreme pain and needing high dosages of Opioids to function. Of course, nobody wants to become a severe Opioid addict/dependent, but if the alternative is not getting out of bed and not working another day in your life, what choice do you have?

So, yes, I understand your apprehension OP, I've made the exact same decision for myself regarding SNRI's based upon the above-stated anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't mean that they won't work for your. You have to do the cost/benefit analysis for yourself and perhaps consider a "trial run" of said medications.

Also, I feel that it's definitely worth mentioning that for a lot of people, Gabapentin works amazingly, while Pregabalin causes intense side-effects and vice-versa. I would venture to say that this is definitely out of the ordinary and that most people experience very similar effects and cross-tolerance between the two. This is totally opinion and totally out of left-field, but honest to god, most people I've met who have had an adverse reaction to one of the Gabapentinoids, does not experience the negative side effects with another Gabapentinoid. I'm on a futile quest to find references to back up my bullshit hearsay, but we'll see what comes of it. Take this last paragraph with a grain of salt for maximum effect.

 

[Nooby]

What dose of gabapentin are you on? Usually doses are titrated gradually up as well as down because side effects are much less likely that way. I’ve been on “max dose” gabaoentin previously and it took weeks to get up to the kind of therapeutic dose I needed. Pregabalin made me sick as a pig but gabapentin worked well. I’m surprised you’ve been prescribed it for muscle pain, it’s more usually given for nerve pain as it’s a neuropathic. Has your GP considered low level amitryptiine? That can be very effective for pain in a lower dose than prescribed for anxiety or depression. Have you tried OTC ibuprofen in gel or tablets? It might be worth asking about stronger anti inflammatories as well. I’m sorry you are in so much pain, it sucks balls and as Keif says being known as having any kind of dependency can cause so many problems in all your contact with health care professionals. Best of luck.

 

[FungousSneeze]

Im currently prescribed 3200mg of gabapentin a day. The first couple weeks i used it recreationally and quickly built a tolerance.

I now regret staying on it. My short term memory is absolutely destroyed. Ive become much more clumsy bumping into things and dropping them.

I am so tolerant that i no longer feel any beneficial effect. Only negative. I also get interdose withdrawal within 8 hours after last dose. Im prescribed 4 800mg gabas a day.

I plan on slowly tapering soon. The withdrawals are horrific from this dose on par with benzodiazepine withdrawal which ive also experienced.

I would suggest tapering off now if its causing mood disturbances before you fall into a trap of dependency with constantly having to increase the dose because tolerance builds rapidly.

Might i also add that this high dose was prescribed for anxiety because I informed the doctor i was an addict and was denied my previous dose of 0.5mg clonazepam twice daily which is a much more appropriate/responsible medication and dose than the gabapentin im on.

Tying into the conversation started by a previous poster about being open to doctors and as a result being denied appropriate treatments.

 

[everteen]

I also made the mistake of being honest with my addiction. After that there's no chance of getting equal medical treatment. Only crap is offered.

Does anyone have any idea how quickly you'll get addicted to venlafaxine? And how quickly it will give you WD's. Problem is, I must change to bupe after I'm out of other opioids, because it's the only one I can really afford since this probably continues for weeks (from previous experience). But I must wait until other opioids leaves my system, so I can relief pain with bupe. If it helps, maybe I could use venlafaxine to ride those few days to clear other opioids out of my system, but I don't want to get addicted to it. There are so many horror stories about it and very few positive ones.

edit/ another idea: so far I've only taken only eight panacods (30 mg codeine each), four in two days, no oxycodone yet. Last time I took them 12 hours ago, since I've been getting injections of Voltaren (diclofenac) at hospital. Those help a lot, but I'm running out of excuses to go there almost every day. How long would it take for codeine to disappear from my system before I could change to very low dose of bupe? I'm starting to think I made a mistake not starting with bupe straight away and use only it for pain relief. That way this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[FungousSneeze]

Wait 36 hours before bupe. If codeine was the only drug you took. Might be able to get away with less.

You know youre ready to start bupe when youre in moderate withdrawal. Chills, gastric distress, anhedonia, etc. Only you can be the best judge.

In my experience if all you were taking was that amount codeine the last couple days. You shouldnt worry about precipitated withdrawls within those time frames. (Unless a longer acting or sustained release opioid was used) If thats the case wait 72 hours

 

[Scrofula]

I came here to talk about gabapentin, but now we're on opiates and bupe and SSRI confusion.

Well, at least I can say you won't have an addiction problem with venlafaxine/Effexor, which is just an SSRI (that at high dose is also an NRI). Some people claim venlafaxine is a hard one to quit, but if you quiz them some more, they'll admit they're also going up and down on benzos or opiates.

Venlafaxine won't cause withdrawal symptoms*, and gabapentin has only the mildest of withdrawals after prolonged high doses like you were on. Still, you should gently taper down the gabapentin, just for comfort. But why quit it? You were complaining at first that it made you "delusional", but now you don't notice it at all.

What I, with no medical or pharmacist training at all, recommend, is holding your gabapentin at 1800mg/day. At that dose, you clear it from your system every night, and so don't develop the same tolerance you would at high doses (where you basically never come down). Then, you'll come to experience the anxiety-relieving effects of the drug, which it sounds like you could really use right now. At 1800mg/day, even after six weeks of use, I still experience the occasional "breakthrough" of true one-ness with the world.

Honestly, it might really help as you wean yourself off all these opiates. And knock off the MDMA for awhile (plus it won't work if you're on venlafaxine). You need to relax and take stock. Opiates have been shown to make recovery from some injuries slower. They're really not meant for long-term pain management. There are steroid injections to help relieve inflammation from some injuries. They can be nasty, but they're not addictive.




*Discontinuation Syndrome isn't the same as withdrawal, and it's intensity is more than a little exaggerated, in my unlearned anecdotal opinion. Still, venlafaxine picked up a reputation for being rough.

But really, you'd think compared to opiate withdrawals, these should all be cake, right?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I know that we now have a lot of different discussions going on within this thread, but I just wanted to clear a few things up. I'm in agreement with a lot of the statements that Scrofula has presented and I'm going to try to elaborate upon them.

It's my belief that using SNRI's like Venlafaxine (Effexor) for acute withdrawal symptoms is pretty much pointless. They may begin to help with stuff like general pain once the drug has had adequate time to accumulate in the body, but the usage that you're describing is not going to be productive. Also, if you end up having side-effects from the SNRI, it might actually exacerbate some of your withdrawal symptoms. If you're intending to be on this drug long-term, then I say go for it, but what you're describing is not really an appropriate usage. As far as SNRI's and addiction, you don't really have anything to worry about. It's not a recreational drug, but it will induce dependence and a resulting withdrawal syndrome upon cessation. I mentioned that my Grandmother had a hard time withdrawing, but my Grandmother has never been through Heroin withdrawal, so who knows how objectively terrible the discontinuation syndrome truly is.

It's like anything else, if you must use the drug to function, then that's how it is. It's as I mentioned earlier, there are people who want nothing to do with Opioids who use them in high-dosages every day simply to function and go about their lives. They are dependent upon Opioids just like a street junkie, but in turn, they're able to live their life in reasonable comfort.