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Very important questions before I take psychedelics

pupnik said:
think of how long the experience seems to be in the nightmare
then
realize that it actually happened in an instant.
I told you above how that can happen by using existing memory

what happens in the dream actually happened before or is a composite of what you remember in an instant.

you have no power during the dream

you only have power outside of the dream by building associations during therapy sessions.
this is the same for dream, lsd, nde etc.
no power in real time.
much power in using the mind for what it can do, i.e. form associative memories and recall them later in an instant.
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In my normal wakeful state, all experiences, no matter how horrible, are normal experiences. That is to say, they are nowhere near as bad as what I experience in my nightmares. That is my definition of the term 'power.'

I honestly feel that in my wakeful state, that I have complete power against any horrible experience so that they all just automatically become very unpleasant experiences and not the indescribable horrible ones that I've experienced in my nightmares.

This all happens with no effort on my part. All horrible experiences are automatically nothing more than unpleasant experiences in my waking life. So me being awake somehow automatically gives me power so that any horrible experience in my waking life is nowhere near as bad as what I experience in my nightmares.

But you are saying I won't have this power during an nde. In other words, you are saying that any horrible experience during an nde will be just as bad or even worse than what I experience in my nightmares.
 
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MattMVS7 said:
But you are saying I won't have this power during an nde. In other words, you are saying that any horrible experience during an nde will be just as bad or even worse than what I experience in my nightmares.
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Only if you don't create new associations and train your brain not to go there. Receiving answers doesn't change anything, you don't seem to understand that. To get over and ease one's mind when it comes to issues like this takes deep internal work, not talking and receiving answers. That's why western psychology doesn't work. Just talking about issues and on an intellectual level seeing why they're there doesn't change anything. You have to go back to that time and change what happens. This is what shamanic work can do, work with medicine plants, actual emotional work - again not western psychology, etc etc.

Heed my words when I say to you that no answers, no words, no reassurances will ever help you. Only experience.
 
can i ask what makes you so convinced you're going to have a near death experience, let alone a horrible one?
reports of NDEs vary massively anyway, but the majority seem to be either pleasant or neutral experiences, I can honestly never say i've read or heard of an NDE containing any of the kind of indescribably bad feelings you talk about from your nightmares
 
captaintom said:
can i ask what makes you so convinced you're going to have a near death experience, let alone a horrible one?
reports of NDEs vary massively anyway, but the majority seem to be either pleasant or neutral experiences, I can honestly never say i've read or heard of an NDE containing any of the kind of indescribably bad feelings you talk about from your nightmares
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There are some that are horrible. They are fewer than the heavenly and blissful ones, but they are out there. So there is always that possibility that I could experience one. I have heart problems and I could have one of these someday. You never know. Now I have heard from others here that the types of indescribable radically altered mental states we experience in our dreams and nightmares can be experienced during trips and ndes. But how can that be when dreams/nightmares are different neurological processes than ndes and trips?

I can continue to ask questions anyway because there is, in fact, that possibility that I will get the answers I am looking for. It is not a hopeless case in doing so.
 
Reading through this thread it seems to me that your questions have been answered in some detail repeatedly but you refuse to accept the answer because you don't want to hear it.Of course psychedelics are going to be capable of reproducing these nightmare-like experiences that you describe; everyone who is answering you in this thread is experienced with psychedelics I'm sure, and have probably had their own share of profoundly terrifying experiences too.Your obsession with whether or not taking a psychedelic is going to induce one of these states is only going to make it more likely to occur.A neuroscientist isn't going to be able to answer your question any better than anyone else. We do roughly know how psychedelics work, they bind to the 5HT-2A receptors mimicking serotonin, resulting in reduced function of the default mode network, in turn allowing the content of your unconscious mind which is not normally a part of your conscious experience of being your 'self', to enter your conscious experience.It therefore stands that it is possible that ANY content of your subconscious mind may manifest itself in your psychedelic experience. Absolutely nobody, regardless of their knowledge or how much research has been done, could say whether this will happen for certain, and whether you'd be able to deal with it if it did or whether it would turn into an uncontrollable nightmare trip. You can reduce the likelihood of such an experience happening by carefully considering set and setting, dose, level of experience... but it can never be guaranteed that a psychedelic experience will not go bad. This is simply a risk you have to be willing to take if you are going to ingest psychedelic drugs.I would personally recommend that you avoid psychedelic or indeed any psychoactive drugs until you have dealt with your mental health issues through therapy and time.
 
terarc said:
Reading through this thread it seems to me that your questions have been answered in some detail repeatedly but you refuse to accept the answer because you don't want to hear it.Of course psychedelics are going to be capable of reproducing these nightmare-like experiences that you describe; everyone who is answering you in this thread is experienced with psychedelics I'm sure, and have probably had their own share of profoundly terrifying experiences too.Your obsession with whether or not taking a psychedelic is going to induce one of these states is only going to make it more likely to occur.A neuroscientist isn't going to be able to answer your question any better than anyone else. We do roughly know how psychedelics work, they bind to the 5HT-2A receptors mimicking serotonin, resulting in reduced function of the default mode network, in turn allowing the content of your unconscious mind which is not normally a part of your conscious experience of being your 'self', to enter your conscious experience.It therefore stands that it is possible that ANY content of your subconscious mind may manifest itself in your psychedelic experience. Absolutely nobody, regardless of their knowledge or how much research has been done, could say whether this will happen for certain, and whether you'd be able to deal with it if it did or whether it would turn into an uncontrollable nightmare trip. You can reduce the likelihood of such an experience happening by carefully considering set and setting, dose, level of experience... but it can never be guaranteed that a psychedelic experience will not go bad. This is simply a risk you have to be willing to take if you are going to ingest psychedelic drugs.I would personally recommend that you avoid psychedelic or indeed any psychoactive drugs until you have dealt with your mental health issues through therapy and time.
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Thank you, but as I said before, I am worried about a horrible nde and not a trip since I don't plan on taking a psychedelic drug. So I think my questions would also apply to trips as well since both ndes and trips are hallucinations. Alright, I do get it already that people who have ndes and trips do experience radically altered indescribable mental states that do have at least similar features to the ones we experience in our dreams and nightmares. So they are similar, but can they be the same? If they are similar, but not the same, then that still means there is some difference. So just how different are these types of indescribable altered mental states during trips and ndes than the ones we experience during our dreams and nightmares? Vastly different or not that different?
 
psy997 said:
Vastly different.
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Furthermore, can they be just as horrible or more horrible experiences than the ones we experience in our nightmares? Or are they nowhere near as bad as the ones in our nightmares?
 
You gotta keep your mind clear before you do it.

You can kinda make sure it is good by just going ng with it.

You should just remember one thing and that is you are tripping and whatever is going on you experiencing it and set the situation up so enjoy it.

I never had a bad trip. I did LSD in grade school age a few times but it wasn't my choice. So I leaned how to trip.

You just got with the feeling and it's fun. Really fun. Freak-outs are rare and it usually dumb people, people who can't use a computer or phone.

What I am saying is just be safe and have fun. I can tell you whether you should do it. Yeah it's easy to enjoy it as long as you just go with it and do stuff that is fun and when its hard think about awesome stuff cuz you will think different.
 
I am thankful everyone here has answered my questions so far. I hope I am not pestering anyone with all these questions. I just wish to gain as much insight as I can. I am now going to ask another question here:

This question is in regards to near death experiences and trips as well. When I am depressed, I experience a certain set of radically indescribable altered mental states during my depressive nightmares. They are experiences far beyond horrible. So they are experiences in the depressive type category of altered mental states.

So my question here is, if I were to experience a horrible altered state during a trip or an nde which would be a completely different experience, then would it be possible for it to be an altered state in the depressive category? It would be a different experience, but would it still be possible that it would be an experience put into the depressive type category of altered mental states?

If so, then that would make it a new type of altered mental state put into the depressive category type. Or would the types of horrible indescribable altered mental states that are experienced during trips and ndes be their own unique category of experience entirely?

In order for one of these altered mental states to be classified as a depressive category type, it has to be a distinct experience as to classify it as such. It cannot bear a little bit of dubious resemblance to a depressive category type of altered state.
 
What you don't seem to realize is that these different types of altered states themselves are not uniform in how they appear but can be vastly different. Not only is one experience different from the next, it is also probably not the same as another person would experience. I think this makes the type of clear-cut categorization that you want impossible. My trips or my nde might have nothing in common with my nightmares. But I don't think you could go from there and assume that your your trips or your nde will have nothing in common with your nightmares.

I'm not sure if this topic is really best discussed here in PD, because I am not sure at all if psychedelic trips can tell you anything about nde's, just because they are both understood to be some type of hallucination. Maybe the Dark Side would be better suited for this? You wrote above that if you could just be sure that you won't experience that same kind of horror from your nightmares in a nde, then you wouldn't be so obsessed with this. No offence, but the first question that came to my mind was, wouldn't you maybe just obsess over something else? If you think that might be the case, then maybe this obsessive thinking in itself is really the underlying problem that should be adressed.
 
tokezu said:
What you don't seem to realize is that these different types of altered states themselves are not uniform in how they appear but can be vastly different. Not only is one experience different from the next, it is also probably not the same as another person would experience. I think this makes the type of clear-cut categorization that you want impossible. My trips or my nde might have nothing in common with my nightmares. But I don't think you could go from there and assume that your your trips or your nde will have nothing in common with your nightmares.

I'm not sure if this topic is really best discussed here in PD, because I am not sure at all if psychedelic trips can tell you anything about nde's, just because they are both understood to be some type of hallucination. Maybe the Dark Side would be better suited for this? You wrote above that if you could just be sure that you won't experience that same kind of horror from your nightmares in a nde, then you wouldn't be so obsessed with this. No offence, but the first question that came to my mind was, wouldn't you maybe just obsess over something else? If you think that might be the case, then maybe this obsessive thinking in itself is really the underlying problem that should be adressed.
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Yes, this obsession is very serious and has rendered me non-functional in life. Even the functions in my brain that allow me to push in order to have a bowel movement are turned off. Therefore, I cannot even have any bowel movement. I cannot push at all no matter how hard I try. There is no physical issue going on here. This is purely a psychological issue that I would have to address immediately or I will die from stool buildup in my system.
 
I also have to say that I don't understand what kind of help you are expecting to get on an internet forum. Talk about this with your therapist (you said you are in therapy, right?) and if he/she isn't of any help look for a new one, that you feel more comfortable with.
 
I have depression and was recently diagnosed with schizophrenia. From everything you said it sounds like you could have a pretty horrific time. I've dropped acid around 10 times and they've all been good except for one, and it was horrifically traumatising. I have occasional mental breakdowns and sometimes can't be in public, but I can still enjoy acid, it's even helped me make important breakthroughs. I think before you make up your mind on this you should get some serious help. I was at a point where I couldn't even look at my friends, I felt like they were strangers, I was experiencing constant waves of random emotions I couldn't work or do anything, I wouldn't eat for days at a time and would just lay on the floor waiting to die for hours, if I hadn't sought professional help I'd most likely be dead. Drugs aren't the answer, I'd say you probably could experience these nightmares and shouldn't do LSD until you feel confident in doing so. Therapy isn't the answer either although I do think it's essential for people with mental illness. In the end it's up to you to find the answers within yourself.
 
MattMVS7 said:
Furthermore, can they be just as horrible or more horrible experiences than the ones we experience in our nightmares? Or are they nowhere near as bad as the ones in our nightmares?
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Well I can only offer my personal anecdotal experience of this, but I've never had a nightmare/dream or other naturally occurring 'altered state' that has come anywhere close to being as terrifying as my worst psychedelic experiences
 
jblo97 said:
I have depression and was recently diagnosed with schizophrenia... I've dropped acid around 10 times and they've all been good except for one... I have occasional mental breakdowns and sometimes can't be in public, but I can still enjoy acid, it's even helped me make important breakthroughs...
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Thank you very much, jblo97. I wonder are you by any chance taking anti-psychotics, and if so, which one(s) you were on when you tripped successfully? And the type of acid. I'm creating a spreadsheet we can hopefully all use listing the anti-psychotic, the dose, the psychedelic, the dose, what worked, what didn't etc - a sort of safe-dosing guide for people on prescribed meds.
 
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