various issues

You sound like DARE. The overwhelming majority of drug users are not addicts. Especially not poly drug addicts. What the hell...

What you're doing is called psychological projection. I expected better from a senior moderator.

Also 3 != 1000000000.
can we check the mock outrage - he was clearly just using hyperbole to make the point.

the 'split od' camp has been making that call for a while now but i've not see the case very clearly defined or strongly made. we're going to need to do a lot better that "it would be better" if we're going to change this.

thanks

alasdair
 
Is looking at every other drug forum and see it working there very well not a strong case? Bluelight is lacking behind, and that's quite obvious. That is not mockery, it's my most rational assesment of the current situation.

Open a sedative and stimulant subforum, add the same mods as in OD and the ones willing to help out in this thread with the ability to move threads -> 1-2 days later you're looking at 3 very functional subforums.

If you don't see any logic in it, you might as well merge PD and OD. Now you'll think: "terrible idea, psychedelics are very different than meth and xanax!" - exactly, and it's the same with benzos, stimulants and opioids.
 
Is looking at every other drug forum and see it working there very well not a strong case?
not at all. none of the other focus forums have sub-forums so i'm not sure that's a very good argument.
Bluelight is lacking behind, and that's quite obvious.
i'm sorry but i need a little more than "it's obvious".

alasdair
 
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/index.php

https://www.ukchemicalresearch.org/index.php

http://www.eve-rave.ch/Forum/index.php

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/subreddits

Bluelight is the only forum with the classic forum design that doesn't have proper subforums. Instead, you simply throw 983/1678 (= 58.6% of the focus forum visitors) into OD.

You even made a cannabis vaping subforum, despite that receiving a whole lot of 2/1678 visitors right now. Which means it made sense to you to open a focus forum for 0.119% of the users.

However, now you're telling me that you need reasons to split 58% into 20/19/19, which are by the way still 50% larger than PDs traffic EACH.
 
maybe they're doing it wrong and we're doing it right.

i'm going to need a little more convincing than "bluelight should do it the way everybody else does".

alasdair
 
Drug FAQs
MDMA, Empathogenic Drugs
Psychedelic drugs, Dissociatives
Cannabis Discussion
RCs
Performance Enhancing Drugs (amphetamines included)
Opiates, downers (benzos and other sedatives)
Vaping Discussion (All Vaped Drugs)
---subforum cannabis vaping
---subforum 'all other stuff' vaping

Some fine tuning needs to be made but roughly speaking.

My $.02
 
You should read my posts more carefully instead of only random parts of it.

If you don't see any logic in it, you might as well merge PD and OD. Now you'll think: "terrible idea, psychedelics are very different than meth and xanax!" - exactly, and it's the same with benzos, stimulants and opioids.

Someone who wants to discuss mushrooms and LSD doesn't want to scroll to 1000 meth, cocaine, heroin, alprazolam threads to find what they're looking for. That's the whole point of focus forums, bring people with similar preferences in drugs together.

Now if someone is only interested in benzodiazepines, they have to go to OD, and still scroll through large amounts of threads about everything from crack to synthetic cannabinoids to find the discussion about...let's say oxazepam.

Could you please explain your throught process behind splitting vaping cannabis from regular cannabis discussion, but at the same time treating stimulants, benzodiazepines, opioids, cannabinoids and various other drugs as ALL THE SAME?

I think you agree that the difference between synthetic cannabinoids and freebase methamphetamine is a bit bigger than smoked cannabis vs. vaped cannabis, right? So why exactly doesn't it deserve to be split?
 
^Thanks for supporting Transforms wish for an email filter.
[MENTION=137252]sekio[/MENTION] [MENTION=152726]Znegative[/MENTION] [MENTION=228162]tricomb[/MENTION] rhun, [MENTION=188110]Non Nobis Solum[/MENTION] [MENTION=72034]Mad Dash[/MENTION] any input regarding splitting OD into stimulant, sedative and possibly new RC subforums?
 
Yes, I mean there should be an auto report (at least) when people publicly post emails. I have NEVER seen this done except by spammers.

Regarding OD, fair enough that it's not obvious. If we want evidence then it's going to have to be a public poll, otherwise it is going to be opinion.
[MENTION=117635]Captain.Heroin[/MENTION] Maybe the reason that it's only "poly drug addicts" using OD is precisely because of the fact that people who don't have a "laundry list" do not want to sift through all the posts that are irrelevant to them?

To consider the extreme case, why not merge ED and PD? And then merge CD with that?
They're not relevant to the discussion of each other, and quite well trafficked so it makes sense to separate them. Same logic here IMHO.
 
You sound like DARE. The overwhelming majority of drug users are not addicts. Especially not poly drug addicts. What the hell...

What you're doing is called psychological projection. I expected better from a senior moderator.

Also 3 != 1000000000.

This may be true, but not necessarily for BL. I think OD should stay as is, have stated why before. I wouldnt hate if opioids and maybe benzos got their own, but still think that it is better to keep consolidated.
 
[MENTION=311014]Kittycat5[/MENTION] What about at least splitting off RCs? And stims perhaps?

Certainly I see no reason to splinter it in one sudden movement so we can always separate one part and see how that goes.
 
Thats the problem, Transform. There are RCs that fit every category and things like nootropics, modafanil, pregabalin and probably a million others that dont really fit anywhere. Remember, harm reduction is our goal and while I think our user base is quite educated on drugs, we still have people who have no idea what classifaction the drugs they are taking may fit in. The broad nature of OD is what directs traffic there. An opiate or stim or benzo forum would also be highly trafficked I would imagine and would be just another hurdle for new or infrequent users to jump over.

Change can be good, so no harm in a test run. Opioids would have to be it right?
 
Now if someone is only interested in benzodiazepines, they have to go to OD, and still scroll through large amounts of threads about everything from crack to synthetic cannabinoids to find the discussion about...let's say oxazepam.
some people browse and some people search. if you are only interested in one thing, then obviously you don't go to od and scroll. you do a search and find threads specific to the subject you're interested in.

Could you please explain your throught process behind splitting vaping cannabis from regular cannabis discussion...
i don't know as i was not involved. i'll try to find out though.

The broad nature of OD is what directs traffic there. An opiate or stim or benzo forum would also be highly trafficked I would imagine and would be just another hurdle for new or infrequent users to jump over.
indeed.

alasdair
 
As much as the "logic" behind splitting OD makes a certain kind of sense, i can't help but feel we oversimplify by saying things like "uppers" and "downers".
Some drugs function as both. Kratom (dose dependant) comes to mind, and i'm sure many other examples exist.

The way bluelight is set up now has one definite thing in its favour - a history of the drug using cultures in question.
Many PD users rarely post outside PD.
Likewise, some stoners only frequent CD.
Other Drugs is cumbersome - but given bluelight's historical focus on MDMA, as well as psychedelics and cannabis (each subforum having a fairly distinct social culture and body of regular posting members) - Other Drugs (which manages to encompass a range of drugs specifically associated with (risk of) habituation and other harms.

There are so many different intoxicants in the world - would it not be inevitable that a broad focus forum exist even if we did break down OD into specifics?
As Capt H pointed out, the demographics of users that frequent OD often have more in common with each other than OD crew do with the PD regulars.
From a harm reduction perspective, i suspect that IV heroin users or people into methamphetamine may have more relevant safety information regarding the safety profile of benzos (for example) just through lived experience and what they read other esteemed posters contribute in OD.
This may be a stereotype or oversimplification - but personally the only friends of mine that have died from benzos (to use one of your examples) fatally OD'd because they mixed them with heroin or other strong opiates.
So in that sense i see a practical reason for keeping many of the OD drugs in the same spot.
And again, many "hard drug" users are poly-substance consumers.

I might be inclined to agree that OD needs a restructure, but the BL search engine works remarkably well, so i've never seen the broadness of OD's scope of substances to be a problem or inconvenient. But it seems that many people navigate bluelight in different ways.
I'm not resistant to change, personally - but i quite like the way things are, for now.
 
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You should read my posts more carefully instead of only random parts of it.



Someone who wants to discuss mushrooms and LSD doesn't want to scroll to 1000 meth, cocaine, heroin, alprazolam threads to find what they're looking for. That's the whole point of focus forums, bring people with similar preferences in drugs together.

Now if someone is only interested in benzodiazepines, they have to go to OD, and still scroll through large amounts of threads about everything from crack to synthetic cannabinoids to find the discussion about...let's say oxazepam.

Could you please explain your throught process behind splitting vaping cannabis from regular cannabis discussion, but at the same time treating stimulants, benzodiazepines, opioids, cannabinoids and various other drugs as ALL THE SAME?

I think you agree that the difference between synthetic cannabinoids and freebase methamphetamine is a bit bigger than smoked cannabis vs. vaped cannabis, right? So why exactly doesn't it deserve to be split?

Prefixes and proper employment of the search engine for Other Drugs threads largely eliminate the issues you are perceiving.

Do a basic search for oxazepam.

Would you like some assistance in learning how to use our search engine?
 
Thats the problem, Transform. There are RCs that fit every category and things like nootropics, modafanil, pregabalin and probably a million others that dont really fit anywhere. Remember, harm reduction is our goal and while I think our user base is quite educated on drugs, we still have people who have no idea what classifaction the drugs they are taking may fit in. The broad nature of OD is what directs traffic there. An opiate or stim or benzo forum would also be highly trafficked I would imagine and would be just another hurdle for new or infrequent users to jump over.

Change can be good, so no harm in a test run. Opioids would have to be it right?

Personally I would massively prefer a split more aligned to pharmacological activity rather than RCs & OD - I simply suggested this to please those who seem fond of the "good old days" and keen on no change.

Regarding kratom and similar anomalies, it doesn't have to be perfect... PD is a perfect example! We discuss all sorts - even empathogenic RCs up until last year. We also have nootropic discussion because it was refused in steroid discussion. We can decide on what we want to have where and then do that, just as we do now.

I didn't realise cannabis discussion and cannabis vaping were split!

Regarding traffic - that is still going to come into bluelight, that when people finish their search and click out into the focus forum, they are going to see a load of threads relevant to the compound they were just reading about, instead of an array of all different drugs.

From a harm reduction perspective, i suspect that IV heroin users or people into methamphetamine may have more relevant safety information regarding the safety profile of benzos (for example) just through lived experience and what they read other esteemed posters contribute in OD.
This may be a stereotype or oversimplification - but personally the only friends of mine that have died from benzos (to use one of your examples) fatally OD'd because they mixed them with heroin or other strong opiates.
So in that sense i see a practical reason for keeping many of the OD drugs in the same spot.
OK, so let's just try out splitting stimulants for now. See how it goes. If traffic dies and everyone is telling benzo users that they need to take more meth without any meth addicts to moderate that, we can re-merge. I strongly suspect that won't happen though.

I can think of a lot of reasons to avoid trying something like this out, but they are all based on "well it's been like this for ages". The drug scene has changed massively in the last few years alone and if bluelight isn't able to even try to move with it then I'm afraid it's going to become irrelevant. I know I'm not even halfway to the 10k posts mark, so maybe my opinion rightly carries less weight but I think it's important to remember that drug use is still something of a phase for many people, and the majority of users here don't even have 1000 posts. I know I love bluelight the way it is but I do honestly think that this is going to help us reach the most people, help them, and maintain a wonderful community.
 
Your a moderator and a member for 6 years. Think you have every right to argue your position.

The thing that bothers me is the most helpless that may come and become confused. Im not talking the actual site layout, Im sure high schoolers are more familiar with that than I was. But in regards to where to go. The search may be great, but I didn't notice it for awhile and still rarely use it. At first glance, I think many go to the forums directly but I would have to see the analytics to confirm. But assuming so, say a kid who just found a bottle of Percocet and is aware that it can be abused but not necessarily an opioid, may become discouraged, eat 20 of them and kill his liver. I know its a small minority, but the majority probably will know what type of drug they are taking. Im not sure if catering to a small minority is beneficial overall, but may help individuals in real life.

I have no power, but all opinions should be considered. If the mods think splitting is the way to go, I trust them.
 
Part of the beauty in Other Drugs is that a lot of us have experience in many areas of drugs, and in getting to visit the first page of Other Drugs threads, there's a lot a single user can comment on. It has developed a nifty community of people who help each other out, no matter what side of the tracks they come from, or what drugs they are using or have a history with. This is something I am personally proud of being a part of, back when I was moderating Other Drugs a handful of years ago.

It would be a shame to split it up for this reason alone. There's so much more I could say on this subject, but will save it for later.
 
Part of the beauty in Other Drugs is that a lot of us have experience in many areas of drugs, and in getting to visit the first page of Other Drugs threads, there's a lot a single user can comment on.

You mean every RC thread ever containing 3 pages of "why don't you take the classics like meth and heroin instead"? Sure, there are some people with great knowledge of all kinds of drugs, which is awesome. But for every single one of them there're 10 extremely unhelpful users, and such threads are usually not moderated at all (technically it doesn't break the rules, but isn't of higher quality than spam).

And I'm pretty sure that people interested in all the drugs wouldn't mind browsing more than one focus forum (and probably already do so, at least PD and OD).
 
Your a moderator and a member for 6 years. Think you have every right to argue your position.

The thing that bothers me is the most helpless that may come and become confused. Im not talking the actual site layout, Im sure high schoolers are more familiar with that than I was. But in regards to where to go. The search may be great, but I didn't notice it for awhile and still rarely use it. At first glance, I think many go to the forums directly but I would have to see the analytics to confirm. But assuming so, say a kid who just found a bottle of Percocet and is aware that it can be abused but not necessarily an opioid, may become discouraged, eat 20 of them and kill his liver. I know its a small minority, but the majority probably will know what type of drug they are taking. Im not sure if catering to a small minority is beneficial overall, but may help individuals in real life.
Thanks for the kind words. I agree that it might be slightly more confusing, but even now we have people posting questions like that in PD occasionally - I don't think not knowing which forum to post in is stopping them posting! I do also feel that a "sedatives" forum and a "stimulants" forum would be less confusing than the current setup, even for very new users.
[MENTION=117635]Captain.Heroin[/MENTION] Regarding users with a range of experience - I don't think this would cause there to be no expertise on sedatives in the stimulants forum and vice-versa. Many people here are poly drug users, so even if they don't browse one forum there will still be good knowledge of drugs, just with a bit more "focus". I certainly do not think we will lose the community spirit of people helping each other out no matter what.

[MENTION=300254]roi[/MENTION]
I don't think this would be stopped by splitting pharmacologically, but at least with more focused forums we might find ourselves in a situation where it's easier to moderate such threads. I know that I am less likely to read through ("proactive moderation") threads where I don't have an interest. Certainly if opioids were also discussed in PD then I would only be proactively moderating the psychedelics threads.
 
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