Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2005
- Messages
- 6,323
Was going to post about this anyway, then got encouraged still further to get on with it and go for it after someone else commenting on the effects of valerian on dreaming.
I've known for quite some time that high-dosing valerian extract has an effect on me quite distinct from the simply mildly sedating (which I'd not expect to affect me much really to begin with, since I've always been a real hard-head when it comes to GABAergic downers, to the point where my preferred dose of chlormethiazole if I use it purely as a sleep inducer rather than the usual use in my case as an anticonvulsant, both for prophylaxis and actively terminating seizures that are just beginning to kick off the shit, is up to a couple of grams (calc. as the base) to maybe 2.5g or even 3g) and I can easily take a 70-100mg dose,often more, of nitrazepam [and sometimes both, and thats ignoring potentiation from my pain meds, which consist of a few hundred mg of morphine IM/IV plus 100mg+ oxycodone] so for a sedative as mild as valerian, I'd not expect it to actually put me to sleep if I already am having trouble, assist in a good nights sleep if I can sleep already, something I've always found damnably elusive. Which is apparently as common in us auties as flies are hovering around dog shit, and from what they tell me, same goes for aspies too)
But, when taking really strong doses especially, of valerian extract, I very often find it produces an extremely intense oneirogenic effect, something one could almost call an 'oneirodelic', to coin a phrase.
INTENSE, vivid, often very memorable, lucid and downright crazy dreaming, that goes on in one long stream, or punctuated by occasional brief wakings, and on going back to sleep after fr.ex going for a piss, then not infrequently, whatever dream I was having at the time before waking then I'll find myself right back in it where I left off. And often there is also quite a strong degree of control over the dreaming, the overall dream environment is determined by whatever sets the scenery so to speak, but within that context, I find myself able to control my actions in the dreamscape provided, E.g for example once when I was dreaming about being at a special needs school, I could choose to go to a section of woodland there, or to the science labs (I did both), make eyes at the sexy young autie girls (did that too of course....can't blame me for that one, afterall, if confronted by a large number of very attractive, classically autistic schoolgirls, who wouldn't think 'mmm...tasty'
),
And whilst going into the science block (it was a boarding school) then I remember being totally free to choose what to talk about with the chemistry/bio teacher, having a chat with them (which actually I got some useful input in waking life from, using them as a kind of consultant, and actually got some very useful reaction help from her, before asking permission to use the fume hood, quickly running back to my dormitory room and grabbing an NBC suit and a case containing glassware I knew that a school lab wouldn't have, and reagents that they wouldn't be allowed either. I remember returning suited up, setting up my glassware and vacuum pump, and whilst this was a while ago so I can't remember specifically what it was, I remember doing something that involved slowly dripping phosphorus trichloride from my pressure-equalized addition funnel to a reaction mixture, as well as something else involving liquid sulfur dioxide, and also deciding to make a new 'racetam series drug, phenylpramiracetam, taking phenylpiracetam as inspiration, whilst the chem/bio teacher looked on, as I tossed her a spare gas mask and the look on her face upon seeing one of her special-ed students coming in after school hours, asking to use the fume hood and telling her 'be back in a minute' whilst I ran off to grab reagents, equipment, and rushing back wearing a nuke-suit, and also opening a case containing a dedicated diazomethane glass kit, the teacher just standing there, looking on gawping as if to say 'what the FUCK else has this kid got in his locker in his bedroom'
Anybody know what constituent(s) of valerian extract are responsible for this weirdness when high-dosing valerian? because I'm fairly sure its not too likely a placebo, since from the first I was not for a moment expecting anything but a mild sleep aid, and also found there to be a profound tachyphylaxis effect akin to how most 5HT2a agonist psychedelics will go ahead with their rocket engines on full blast, and if used either again that day other than a supplement during the experience, or the day after then the effects are much, much diminished, and continued a third day then either massive doses are required or it just isn't going to happen no matter how much is used.
Is it the valerenic acid, which is apparently a loreclezole site agonist at GABAa receptors? sodium channel blocking compounds (hypothesis here, just because some compounds in there are very similar to valproate), alkaloidal fraction, or what? whats going on with this, how and why? I've wanted to try loreclezole for quite some time now, to see if thats whats going on, although I think I'll probably have to synthesize it for myself, rather than buy it, given that the likes of biology ligand supplying companies typically charge monstrous money for a milligram or two for the likes of electrophysiological studies which would be most uneconomical and impractical for even one, never mind a series of in-vivo human tests.
I've known for quite some time that high-dosing valerian extract has an effect on me quite distinct from the simply mildly sedating (which I'd not expect to affect me much really to begin with, since I've always been a real hard-head when it comes to GABAergic downers, to the point where my preferred dose of chlormethiazole if I use it purely as a sleep inducer rather than the usual use in my case as an anticonvulsant, both for prophylaxis and actively terminating seizures that are just beginning to kick off the shit, is up to a couple of grams (calc. as the base) to maybe 2.5g or even 3g) and I can easily take a 70-100mg dose,often more, of nitrazepam [and sometimes both, and thats ignoring potentiation from my pain meds, which consist of a few hundred mg of morphine IM/IV plus 100mg+ oxycodone] so for a sedative as mild as valerian, I'd not expect it to actually put me to sleep if I already am having trouble, assist in a good nights sleep if I can sleep already, something I've always found damnably elusive. Which is apparently as common in us auties as flies are hovering around dog shit, and from what they tell me, same goes for aspies too)
But, when taking really strong doses especially, of valerian extract, I very often find it produces an extremely intense oneirogenic effect, something one could almost call an 'oneirodelic', to coin a phrase.
INTENSE, vivid, often very memorable, lucid and downright crazy dreaming, that goes on in one long stream, or punctuated by occasional brief wakings, and on going back to sleep after fr.ex going for a piss, then not infrequently, whatever dream I was having at the time before waking then I'll find myself right back in it where I left off. And often there is also quite a strong degree of control over the dreaming, the overall dream environment is determined by whatever sets the scenery so to speak, but within that context, I find myself able to control my actions in the dreamscape provided, E.g for example once when I was dreaming about being at a special needs school, I could choose to go to a section of woodland there, or to the science labs (I did both), make eyes at the sexy young autie girls (did that too of course....can't blame me for that one, afterall, if confronted by a large number of very attractive, classically autistic schoolgirls, who wouldn't think 'mmm...tasty'
),And whilst going into the science block (it was a boarding school) then I remember being totally free to choose what to talk about with the chemistry/bio teacher, having a chat with them (which actually I got some useful input in waking life from, using them as a kind of consultant, and actually got some very useful reaction help from her, before asking permission to use the fume hood, quickly running back to my dormitory room and grabbing an NBC suit and a case containing glassware I knew that a school lab wouldn't have, and reagents that they wouldn't be allowed either. I remember returning suited up, setting up my glassware and vacuum pump, and whilst this was a while ago so I can't remember specifically what it was, I remember doing something that involved slowly dripping phosphorus trichloride from my pressure-equalized addition funnel to a reaction mixture, as well as something else involving liquid sulfur dioxide, and also deciding to make a new 'racetam series drug, phenylpramiracetam, taking phenylpiracetam as inspiration, whilst the chem/bio teacher looked on, as I tossed her a spare gas mask and the look on her face upon seeing one of her special-ed students coming in after school hours, asking to use the fume hood and telling her 'be back in a minute' whilst I ran off to grab reagents, equipment, and rushing back wearing a nuke-suit, and also opening a case containing a dedicated diazomethane glass kit, the teacher just standing there, looking on gawping as if to say 'what the FUCK else has this kid got in his locker in his bedroom'
Anybody know what constituent(s) of valerian extract are responsible for this weirdness when high-dosing valerian? because I'm fairly sure its not too likely a placebo, since from the first I was not for a moment expecting anything but a mild sleep aid, and also found there to be a profound tachyphylaxis effect akin to how most 5HT2a agonist psychedelics will go ahead with their rocket engines on full blast, and if used either again that day other than a supplement during the experience, or the day after then the effects are much, much diminished, and continued a third day then either massive doses are required or it just isn't going to happen no matter how much is used.
Is it the valerenic acid, which is apparently a loreclezole site agonist at GABAa receptors? sodium channel blocking compounds (hypothesis here, just because some compounds in there are very similar to valproate), alkaloidal fraction, or what? whats going on with this, how and why? I've wanted to try loreclezole for quite some time now, to see if thats whats going on, although I think I'll probably have to synthesize it for myself, rather than buy it, given that the likes of biology ligand supplying companies typically charge monstrous money for a milligram or two for the likes of electrophysiological studies which would be most uneconomical and impractical for even one, never mind a series of in-vivo human tests.
