Drink_Tea_Love_Cat
Bluelighter
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- Dec 25, 2016
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(opiods) OPIUM in middle of a Kratom Addiction - Strange Precipitated WDS?? HELP
skip to the *** for the core issue
from here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...atom-Detox?p=13939214&viewfull=1#post13939214 the diary/thread needs a tidy and reformat, so spare me on that front
This is mostly a question for the chemists here, but also a trip report on some level:
I have been using Kratom every day for over a year. Dose has gone as high as 20+ grams a day of above average strains. Maybe even 30g on some days. Average or Median doses are probably 12.5 - 15g region per day, tolerance swings wildly and depends on strain ofc. Some short term binges on other opiates as well.
I have noticed a strange phenomenon when using Opium on a day with zero Kratom to accompany it. Some kind of precipitated withdrawal effect perhaps. Could the chemists among us please help me understand what's going on inside my body at this time? Perhaps I can also use it to my advantage during my Kratom detox experiments and plan. Please note this opium is of very good quality and made the traditional way. I understand scepticism, just please take my word for it as I'd rather not discuss sources on here.
Report so far:
Today I woke up at midday and started with 300mg at 1pm (GMT) of this strong Opium. I potentiated with 500ml of grapefruit, 400mg magnesium, turmeric/bioperine (can't remember if these potentiate but I did read somewhere about curcumin), alkaline superfoods, calcium carbonate/tums and also a few grams of guarana for the caffeine. In the past 200mg of this O has been a threshold dose, have used 600mg of it and got super noddy to the extreme. Last time I used it 400mg plus guarana and a couple beers kept me happy and dancing from 10pm - 4am. Tolerance swings are hard to track though.
FYI my tolerance is 75 - 300mg DHC, 10 - 40mg Oxy for threshold - recreational high effects. I expect I could take 450mg DHC or 60mg Oxy oral to nod off and achieve similar effects to the 600mg Opium experience, but I prefer not to nod on opiates just to feel happy and be able to do things.
***At 2pm I am now experiencing a strange phenomenon. I have felt it before once or twice but it's very hard to put a finger on what it is. I suppose it feels something a little like precipitated withdrawals but I'm not sure. As I feel the opium start to work my whole body feels tired and achy, very mild euphoria is creeping in so that I don't feel opiate cravings, but I am literally exhausted. It's not nodding, it's not respiratory depression per se. From a few odd sentences I have read here and there I understand some opiates have different affinities than others, and tend to kick each other out before taking up residence in receptor sites. I'm assuming that I'm in the middle of that? this is basically like strong withdrawal aches/exhaustion, but without restless legs, diarrhea or mental withdrawal. I wonder if it has something to do with Kratom being stimulatory in some way, and whatever alkaloids in opium working in a very different way.
In the past it takes about 2 - 3 hours for this feeling to pass and to get to the real opium buzz.
So, is this some kind of precipitated withdrawal symptom or something else? Can this be experienced in cross-using other opiates too (perhaps using Heroin on top of Subutex? I had heard you need to use a certain amount to "kick out" the subutex) and...
I wonder if this will be useful for me in using opium to detox from kratom. I also wonder if there is a way to prevent this feeling should I wish to in future. I won't take any Kratom today, so I can't comment on that. I have a vague memory in the past that if/when I did take some Kratom right now, the aching would go away and the 2 buzzes would synergise and enhance each other.
At 2.50pm the aching and tiredness might possibly be subsiding very slowly, I will have to log off now so will report back later.
EDIT: 4PM - The opium buzz is starting to come on stronger now. It's always a very gradual process with opium, with the climax often coming suprisingly late compared to other oral administration opiates. The achy feeling is possibly subsiding, but I expect it will take another hour, I'm not sure.
If anyone has any links on how opium alkaloids and general metabolism of opium works, I would be interested. It's fascinating the different layers of the buzz that come from oral opium administration. It just keeps on creeping upwards. Please understand though, I am no chemist so layman's terms would be useful
EDIT (24 HOURS LATER, for anyone who's interested in what happened next) - At 5pm the buzz started to get more depressive, but less achy. Just more tiring overall and warm and fuzzy. Perhaps I was really missing the stimulating properties from Kratom, I'm not sure. I had to lay down and listen to music. Due to the fact that I didn't really want to do any Kratom that day I ended up doing some small amounts of coke, so any reporting of the next symptoms will be ruined by that. The coke did get me stimulated and remove the aches. It also got me paranoid so I went to the shops to include a small bottle of beer to reformat the cocaine buzz to something more mellow.
Due to the coke and paranoia, I found that 300mg was not enough to sustain a recreational high so I ingested another 200mg Opium after the coke. Once I got into the coke the stimulants vs opiates counter tolerance increase started as they diminished each others effects. Whatever aches I had were long gone and I was more concerned about maintaining an opiate high and so ingested a much weaker variety of opium (150mg), a small amount of stem and vein kratom, and 1 tramadol 50mg. Ultimately I ended up on the up and down cycle of a coke session doing little bumps and waiting for the buzz to pass, and then another.
Today I awoke with some nausea, itching, and generally with a strong opiate-like hangover.
EDIT 48 hours later - 9pm the following evening I ended up with massive nausea and had to go to sleep and slept for 12 hours. That was after 7.5g of kratom and 10mg dex (which I have a low tolerance to). Later even 5g kratom didn't change the nausea or keep me awake. I wondered if the nausea was due to the opium and coke session as a whole, or some specific interaction I was missing. Perhaps too much alkalising agents, perhaps just too much opium full stop, or perhaps some amino acids or other stuff I have been playing with lately. It's hard to know.
skip to the *** for the core issue
from here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...atom-Detox?p=13939214&viewfull=1#post13939214 the diary/thread needs a tidy and reformat, so spare me on that front
This is mostly a question for the chemists here, but also a trip report on some level:
I have been using Kratom every day for over a year. Dose has gone as high as 20+ grams a day of above average strains. Maybe even 30g on some days. Average or Median doses are probably 12.5 - 15g region per day, tolerance swings wildly and depends on strain ofc. Some short term binges on other opiates as well.
I have noticed a strange phenomenon when using Opium on a day with zero Kratom to accompany it. Some kind of precipitated withdrawal effect perhaps. Could the chemists among us please help me understand what's going on inside my body at this time? Perhaps I can also use it to my advantage during my Kratom detox experiments and plan. Please note this opium is of very good quality and made the traditional way. I understand scepticism, just please take my word for it as I'd rather not discuss sources on here.
Report so far:
Today I woke up at midday and started with 300mg at 1pm (GMT) of this strong Opium. I potentiated with 500ml of grapefruit, 400mg magnesium, turmeric/bioperine (can't remember if these potentiate but I did read somewhere about curcumin), alkaline superfoods, calcium carbonate/tums and also a few grams of guarana for the caffeine. In the past 200mg of this O has been a threshold dose, have used 600mg of it and got super noddy to the extreme. Last time I used it 400mg plus guarana and a couple beers kept me happy and dancing from 10pm - 4am. Tolerance swings are hard to track though.
FYI my tolerance is 75 - 300mg DHC, 10 - 40mg Oxy for threshold - recreational high effects. I expect I could take 450mg DHC or 60mg Oxy oral to nod off and achieve similar effects to the 600mg Opium experience, but I prefer not to nod on opiates just to feel happy and be able to do things.
***At 2pm I am now experiencing a strange phenomenon. I have felt it before once or twice but it's very hard to put a finger on what it is. I suppose it feels something a little like precipitated withdrawals but I'm not sure. As I feel the opium start to work my whole body feels tired and achy, very mild euphoria is creeping in so that I don't feel opiate cravings, but I am literally exhausted. It's not nodding, it's not respiratory depression per se. From a few odd sentences I have read here and there I understand some opiates have different affinities than others, and tend to kick each other out before taking up residence in receptor sites. I'm assuming that I'm in the middle of that? this is basically like strong withdrawal aches/exhaustion, but without restless legs, diarrhea or mental withdrawal. I wonder if it has something to do with Kratom being stimulatory in some way, and whatever alkaloids in opium working in a very different way.
In the past it takes about 2 - 3 hours for this feeling to pass and to get to the real opium buzz.
So, is this some kind of precipitated withdrawal symptom or something else? Can this be experienced in cross-using other opiates too (perhaps using Heroin on top of Subutex? I had heard you need to use a certain amount to "kick out" the subutex) and...
I wonder if this will be useful for me in using opium to detox from kratom. I also wonder if there is a way to prevent this feeling should I wish to in future. I won't take any Kratom today, so I can't comment on that. I have a vague memory in the past that if/when I did take some Kratom right now, the aching would go away and the 2 buzzes would synergise and enhance each other.
At 2.50pm the aching and tiredness might possibly be subsiding very slowly, I will have to log off now so will report back later.
EDIT: 4PM - The opium buzz is starting to come on stronger now. It's always a very gradual process with opium, with the climax often coming suprisingly late compared to other oral administration opiates. The achy feeling is possibly subsiding, but I expect it will take another hour, I'm not sure.
If anyone has any links on how opium alkaloids and general metabolism of opium works, I would be interested. It's fascinating the different layers of the buzz that come from oral opium administration. It just keeps on creeping upwards. Please understand though, I am no chemist so layman's terms would be useful
EDIT (24 HOURS LATER, for anyone who's interested in what happened next) - At 5pm the buzz started to get more depressive, but less achy. Just more tiring overall and warm and fuzzy. Perhaps I was really missing the stimulating properties from Kratom, I'm not sure. I had to lay down and listen to music. Due to the fact that I didn't really want to do any Kratom that day I ended up doing some small amounts of coke, so any reporting of the next symptoms will be ruined by that. The coke did get me stimulated and remove the aches. It also got me paranoid so I went to the shops to include a small bottle of beer to reformat the cocaine buzz to something more mellow.
Due to the coke and paranoia, I found that 300mg was not enough to sustain a recreational high so I ingested another 200mg Opium after the coke. Once I got into the coke the stimulants vs opiates counter tolerance increase started as they diminished each others effects. Whatever aches I had were long gone and I was more concerned about maintaining an opiate high and so ingested a much weaker variety of opium (150mg), a small amount of stem and vein kratom, and 1 tramadol 50mg. Ultimately I ended up on the up and down cycle of a coke session doing little bumps and waiting for the buzz to pass, and then another.
Today I awoke with some nausea, itching, and generally with a strong opiate-like hangover.
EDIT 48 hours later - 9pm the following evening I ended up with massive nausea and had to go to sleep and slept for 12 hours. That was after 7.5g of kratom and 10mg dex (which I have a low tolerance to). Later even 5g kratom didn't change the nausea or keep me awake. I wondered if the nausea was due to the opium and coke session as a whole, or some specific interaction I was missing. Perhaps too much alkalising agents, perhaps just too much opium full stop, or perhaps some amino acids or other stuff I have been playing with lately. It's hard to know.
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