using opiates to beat anxiety and depression

[phsycra]

Hi

I find opiates the best thing to combat feelings of anxiety and depression and I'm sure a lot of others do to so why don't doctors prescribe this for this reason? The obvious reasons is tolerance and dependence but n that sense benzos are the same. Is there a reason they don't? Cuz I have been taking on 90mgs of dhc for about a year and tolerance has risen but there still effective at relieving anxiety whereas benzos wouldn't be after taking the same dose for a year.

Is there something I'm missing with regards to hr cuz benzos seem more damaging to ur health than opiates. Weak ones anyway

 

[Pagey]

I think one of the main problems if opiates were prescribed all the time is that a lot of people would surely move up to stronger opiates as soon as they'd start getting tolerant to their dose, and this would never end well.
+ I'm pretty sure tolerance/dependance tends to occur much more quickly with opiates than benzos....also personally I get much more calmed and relaxed when on benzos rather than opiates, which tend to just put me out in a much more incapacitating manner.

 

[gaktattack]

The profit margin in opiates is nearly nothing when compared to modern SSRIs. They have already demonized opiates to an extent that it cant really be undone. Any accidents that occur while it is in the patient's system will make good news stories. The withdrawal effects of modern ssris are hidden from the public, and polls of physicians show that they may not be any better informed than the average person. Look at the below sales figures for SSRIs, which can't even be proven effective for anyone except those with most severe from of depression, and even then the data isn't real encouraging.

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/oct/10-are-antidepressant-drugs-actually-worth-taking More prescriptions are dispensed for antidepressants—232.7 million nationwide in 2007—than for drugs of any other type, according to the data firm, IMS Health. U.S. sales of antidepressants totaled $11.9 billion in 2007, IMS Health reports.

I love the hypocrisy in America, where we say meth is the biggest danger to our kids, yet we can't get enough amphetamines to keep them legally doped up in class.

http://www.nationalmethcenter.org/STATISTICS_Threatmap.html "States where meth is the biggest problem according to law enforcement"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/01/us-adhd-adderall-shortage-idUSTRE80009E20120101 18 million prescriptions for adderall each year, DEA not dealing enough dope to big pharma to fill them all.

http://www.udel.edu/chemo/teaching/CHEM465/SitesF02/Prop26b/ritalin consumption.html "US produces and consumes more than 80% of the worlds methylphenidate"

 

[Jktm]

Benzo's aren't more damaging to your health at all...and they're a helluva lot kinder to the body than their predecessor barbituates...

besides...what the fuck do you give to the depression patient in the ER with level 2 trauma that doesn't respond to morphine because they've been maxed out on their dilaudid?

 

[Sprout]

Because people are far more likely to experience euphoria on opiates rather than benzos, leading to large abuse, tolerance and dependence and eventually graduation to more powerful opiates. I can't see MMT replacing CBT any time soon.

 

[Alex000]

Frankly, I think opioids should have a place in psychiatry for the means of treating depression, anxiety, fatigue, insomnia etc. The thing is they have so many practical purposes in psychiatry, and are extremely effective in elavating mood and killing anxiety, as well as so much more. Put almost anyone who has a psychiatric disturbance on an opiate and you will see immediate improvement. It is unfortunate that they are not used in psychiatry really at all, but they are EXTREMELY addictive and are powerful euphoriants. I would think this would have to do with why they aren't in psychiatry, and, of course, just how psychiatry has developed from the beginning. They just did not fall in, but amphetamines and methylphenidate did, both of which are powerful euphoriants, too, but I do not think quite as risky with actual addiction as opiates are. I have a theory that the body does not seek out quite so readily the toxic drugs, no matter how euphoric. Amphetamines are toxic, as is alcohol. Barbiturates are, too. We don't however see any addiction quite like that of opiate addiction, where the powerful euphoriant drug is not toxic and induces no dysphoria in "opiate-receptive" individuals on the comedown or "rebound" in the beginning of opiate use. The body does not hand amphetamines so well, for instance, as they have inherent toxicity as well a number of negative side-effects esp. during the comedown. I am going on, though, about something which I have no proof. But, I think opiates are just too addictive to be considered safe to use in those with psychiatric disturbance, because they just work TOO well. I have a future goal of being a psychiatrist with a private practice, and cannot see myself having any objection to prescribing an opiate for a psych problem if I felt it warranted it, and the benefits outweighed the risks. It is sad how many seriously mentally ill could benefit that do not because of this black and white "no opiate" policy. Ridiculous IMO.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Using opiates for the purpose of treating depression is a horrible idea, as the depressed patient will experience rebound depression from the opiate wd on top of their baseline level of depression. It is not unlikely to become suicidally depressed following a rapid taper or an abrupt discontinuation if someone were severely depressed before starting opiates.

They also provide a high level of euphoria, disproportionate to their medicinal values. They are too recreational and euphoric for the amount of anxiety and depression they treat, in other words.

 

[Allein]

IMO as a long term treatment drugs are not an answer to Depression, being from the UK they, in general don't prescribe Benzos any more, except low doses for a couple of weeks maybe.

I've tried self medicating on them and it just led to massive tolerance and dependence, something I'm still dealing with today.

I've only had a small amount of experience with opiates but I really can't see them being a long term treatment for depression, surely all they will do is mask the symptoms and make therapy more difficult.

IMO there will never be an effective chemical cure for depression, some drugs for some people may provide some relief or stability which is a good platform from which to start building on using CBT or other therapies. Opiates are at best going to provide a means to hide away from the problems that need resolving or at least recognising, you only have to look at the profile of opiate addicts to see how many started using in order to know they are little more than a sticking plaster, just like other chemical treatments.

 

[DoseYouAll]

Opiates are the best anti anxiety meds ever. In a sane world without regulations on drugs we could use them for depression since they are cheap and available. It doesn't work the way things are now with drugs. . . Who cares if you get addicted to them if they are 5 cents apiece and you don't need a script? take some fucking laxatives to combat the only negative side effect and live your life.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Opiates are the best anti anxiety meds ever.

Until you try to come off of them...

In a sane world without regulations on drugs we could use them for depression since they are cheap and available. It doesn't work the way things are now with drugs. . . Who cares if you get addicted to them if they are 5 cents apiece and you don't need a script? take some fucking laxatives to combat the only negative side effect and live your life.

I consider tolerance that builds constantly and serious physical dependence also "negative side effects," as well. I sense serious justification here, and I don't blame you if you self medicate with opiates, I mean they do work... only for some time, that is. The problem is that they are not sustainable when used for this purpose in the long-term, without constantly upping and upping your dosage, with the ball and chain of opiate addiction getting heavier and heavier with each dosage increase.

 

[Allein]

^^

I have no issue with opiates as such but there is very little research to back up you claim they are "the best anti anxiety meds ever".

I suffer from depression and anxiety and out of all the drugs I have tried both on and off script a good course of CBT beat them all by a country mile, IMO there is no way drugs are even a mid term answer to these conditions.

If you want to spend the rest of your life not dealing with the underlying problems you have, not working on taking control of who you are and finding working on making things better for yourself then burying yourself in drugs is fine but don't fool yourself that this means you are cured, the drugs are just masking the problems.

Don't misunderstand what I am saying, as a sufferer myself I am in no way suggesting people need to just "pull themselves together" or any such rubbish, drugs may provide the stability and short term relief required in order to start to learn how to address your individual issues via therapy of some sort, CBT seems effective for many but it's not my area of expertise.

 

[J.Wallace]

Anyone who is even slightly experienced with Opiates can tell you, they certainly ease anxiety and depression. In my experience, more so the former than the latter. However, I can also safely say, any Opiate addict who started for these reasons will tell you it's one of the worst reasons to ever use an Opiate. Scratch that, to ever use a drug, period.

Relying on a chemical to control your level of happiness is a recipe for disaster. I personally started using Vicodin when I was 18 because I was having trouble participating in my GED preparation class. I wanted to participate more, feel like I was contributing to topics, and conversations. My mother, who at the time had terminal lung cancer, gave me one of her Vicodin 7.5 one day just to help me relax. She had no intentions on me abusing them, or for me to even continue using, in her mind is was a one time thing. Though, this quickly changed. Before long, I was asking for 2 or 3 Vicodin every other morning before I went to class. I'd pop them, and I'd feel high for a good 4 or 5 hours, long enough to get to class and then come home. I felt amazing. I remember one of the best parts of this was riding on the city bus on my way to class, feeling like pure gold, listening to music. It was a beautiful feeling, I don't even have to explain it, we all know! Then, I started asking for more and more. And to make this long story short, I eventually started doing Vicodin every day, and when that wasn't enough I moved on to Oxycodone. The worst part was, I was getting all this for free. My mother had lung cancer, and she was prescribed a whole assortment of pills, crazy amounts since she use to be a nurse and had connections with doctors. They knew she was dieing, so they simply gave her the relief she needed.

Getting very off track here. I guess my point is, this idea of using for anxiety may seem like a harmless one at first, but it quickly escalates into something not so harmless. And as stated above, what if everyone was on Opiates for anxiety and depression. What would hospitals and doctors start to provide when these people are in legitimate pain? It would be madness. The combination of prescribed Opiates and the Opiates being given for pain would put too much strain on the body. It would simply be too much for a reasonable human to sustain without possible damage to the liver and body.

 

[otm]

Agree with people who said about progression on to other opiates and also the effects of withdrawl on top of depression. The doctors purpose is to control your symptoms not get you high and benzos are the tried and tested way of controlling anxiety whilst patients have talking therapy to find a long term change in mindset.

Personally I believe ideally benzos and SSRIs should be only be used to combat anxiety or depression when used alongside talking therapy such as councelling or CBT. I appreciate you saying benzos did not work for you. The big question for me is, were you also undergoing talking therapy alongside that medication?

Also, which benzo did you take and did you try switching to another before trying opiates? Do you currently have any plan to reduce your opiate intake at some point as it is probably best to think about that sooner rather than later as they are extremely habit forming.

 

[DooMMooD]

Anyone who is even slightly experienced with Opiates can tell you, they certainly ease anxiety and depression. In my experience, more so the former than the latter. However, I can also safely say, any Opiate addict who started for these reasons will tell you it's one of the worst reasons to ever use an Opiate. Scratch that, to ever use a drug, period.

Relying on a chemical to control your level of happiness is a recipe for disaster. I personally started using Vicodin when I was 18 because I was having trouble participating in my GED preparation class. I wanted to participate more, feel like I was contributing to topics, and conversations. My mother, who at the time had terminal lung cancer, gave me one of her Vicodin 7.5 one day just to help me relax. She had no intentions on me abusing them, or for me to even continue using, in her mind is was a one time thing. Though, this quickly changed. Before long, I was asking for 2 or 3 Vicodin every other morning before I went to class. I'd pop them, and I'd feel high for a good 4 or 5 hours, long enough to get to class and then come home. I felt amazing. I remember one of the best parts of this was riding on the city bus on my way to class, feeling like pure gold, listening to music. It was a beautiful feeling, I don't even have to explain it, we all know! Then, I started asking for more and more. And to make this long story short, I eventually started doing Vicodin every day, and when that wasn't enough I moved on to Oxycodone. The worst part was, I was getting all this for free. My mother had lung cancer, and she was prescribed a whole assortment of pills, crazy amounts since she use to be a nurse and had connections with doctors. They knew she was dieing, so they simply gave her the relief she needed.

Getting very off track here. I guess my point is, this idea of using for anxiety may seem like a harmless one at first, but it quickly escalates into something not so harmless. And as stated above, what if everyone was on Opiates for anxiety and depression. What would hospitals and doctors start to provide when these people are in legitimate pain? It would be madness. The combination of prescribed Opiates and the Opiates being given for pain would put too much strain on the body. It would simply be too much for a reasonable human to sustain without possible damage to the liver and body.

You and EM are spot on.

Relying on a pill for happiness/peace of mind is not real happiness/peace of mind. And it fades just as fast as the effects of the pill do.


I've long learned any happiness from drugs is not real. Its fake, an illusion, a shortcut to a feeling that most people spend their whole lives seeking. And the shortcut takes you to a fake version, that looks real enough, but after youre there for awhile you see it just for what it is: bullshit.

And then, without it? You have no idea how to feel.

 

[SM0K3Y]

I suffer from both anxiety and depression and opiates seemed like a god send when I first started. It seemed like my years of drug use all were worth nothing, and they all led me to oxy's and dope. I loved it, it was a feeling I never felt before and it made every day bearable and helped me cope with my fucked up life (especially with the passing of my father when I was 20) but in the end, it was all for the worse. Nothing good at ALL came out of my drug use. I ended up with a habit, broke, no family or friends at one point, I was a recluse. AND I had to cope with all my problems afterwards since I was never sober and never let out a tear. I stuffed my problems away with opiates, and now I am dealing with it all over again.

Trust me, get on a prescription anti-depressant. You'll feel better, you won't get addicted, and you'll be able to live life normally. Anxiety and depression go hand in hand and most likely the anti-depressants will help with the anxiety, and if not your doctor will most likely be willing to prescribe you xanax or klonopins as well.

I hope all the best for you, but please do not look for happiness in drugs. Many have done it, and it seems great at first, but falls to shit and you end up way worse than before. It's not worth the downward spiral that comes along with it.

 

[Condumbpope]

I suffer from both anxiety and depression and opiates seemed like a god send when I first started. It seemed like my years of drug use all were worth nothing, and they all led me to oxy's and dope. I loved it, it was a feeling I never felt before and it made every day bearable and helped me cope with my fucked up life (especially with the passing of my father when I was 20) but in the end, it was all for the worse. Nothing good at ALL came out of my drug use. I ended up with a habit, broke, no family or friends at one point, I was a recluse. AND I had to cope with all my problems afterwards since I was never sober and never let out a tear. I stuffed my problems away with opiates, and now I am dealing with it all over again.

Trust me, get on a prescription anti-depressant. You'll feel better, you won't get addicted, and you'll be able to live life normally. Anxiety and depression go hand in hand and most likely the anti-depressants will help with the anxiety, and if not your doctor will most likely be willing to prescribe you xanax or klonopins as well.

I hope all the best for you, but please do not look for happiness in drugs. Many have done it, and it seems great at first, but falls to shit and you end up way worse than before. It's not worth the downward spiral that comes along with it.

Listen to this guy, he's right. I've been through basically the exact thing with narcotic self medication for anxiety, depression and pain. It doesn't end well.

 

[Alex000]

I think we are buying into BigPharma, the FDA, and medicine as it is today a bit too much, and ignoring some undeniable benefits opiates could provide to help treat mental illness. Some of you are saying that relying on drugs for "happiness" is just not effective, yet you advocate SSRI's and benzos, both of which are psychotropic, and both of which can cause serious dependence? There are several flaws with this point of view, and I refuse to defend how medicine is being practiced today as how it should be practiced always. I won't defend indications of this drug or that, and say they cannot be used for something other than what they were FDA approved. All of this is so narrow-minded and restrictive. Black and white thinking just does not apply with how medicine should be practiced.

But, back to opiates themselves for the treatment of mental illness. There are questions that could be posed such as should they be used for opiate-addiction in maintenance therapy (psychiatric) or should they be used to treat pain conditions without organic cause such as fibromyalgia? Where does one draw the line? But, even that is really unimportant in why opiates should be used for mental illness such as depression or anxiety, for example. Opiates are, really, wonder-drugs for so many symptoms. Alone, natural/semi-synthetic opiates are not toxic to the body, and are frequently used for CHRONIC pain management. Why should physical pain be treated with opiates, but not mental pain? Is one more serious than the other? Should be just throw chronic pain patients on Cymbalta, or maybe Lyrica, and say that's all even if it does not help? No. In psychiatry, opiates could be used carefully at certain rx'd doses (like anyother drug) to treat mental illness, if it were warranted. Self-medicating can be counterproductive, but proper opiate therapy overseen by a medical professional could be quite efficacious in bringing relief to mental illness. Opiates are wonderful analgesics, and do relieve pain of any kind, not discriminating. They simply make one more comfortable. They are also euphoriants, but why is this bad in every case? They help to stimulate, allowing for longer periods of activity with increased frequency w/o discomfort, as well as relaxing and sedating, allowing for good and comfortable sleep. Take a severly depressed individual, who has not responded to a variety of anti-depressants, and even responded poorly to ECT. What do we do? Allow the individual to suffer in his pain or relieve it?

There needs to be understood the difference between dependence and addiction. Many chronic pain patients use their opiates as prescribed w/o any addiction, but with significant relief. There is no reason the same would not hold true. Chronic dosing will lead to dependence, of course, but so will most any anti-depressant and benzos, of course.

 

[tricomb]

Anyone who is even slightly experienced with Opiates can tell you, they certainly ease anxiety and depression. In my experience, more so the former than the latter. However, I can also safely say, any Opiate addict who started for these reasons will tell you it's one of the worst reasons to ever use an Opiate. Scratch that, to ever use a drug, period.

Relying on a chemical to control your level of happiness is a recipe for disaster. I personally started using Vicodin when I was 18 because I was having trouble participating in my GED preparation class. I wanted to participate more, feel like I was contributing to topics, and conversations. My mother, who at the time had terminal lung cancer, gave me one of her Vicodin 7.5 one day just to help me relax. She had no intentions on me abusing them, or for me to even continue using, in her mind is was a one time thing. Though, this quickly changed. Before long, I was asking for 2 or 3 Vicodin every other morning before I went to class. I'd pop them, and I'd feel high for a good 4 or 5 hours, long enough to get to class and then come home. I felt amazing. I remember one of the best parts of this was riding on the city bus on my way to class, feeling like pure gold, listening to music. It was a beautiful feeling, I don't even have to explain it, we all know! Then, I started asking for more and more. And to make this long story short, I eventually started doing Vicodin every day, and when that wasn't enough I moved on to Oxycodone. The worst part was, I was getting all this for free. My mother had lung cancer, and she was prescribed a whole assortment of pills, crazy amounts since she use to be a nurse and had connections with doctors. They knew she was dieing, so they simply gave her the relief she needed.

Getting very off track here. I guess my point is, this idea of using for anxiety may seem like a harmless one at first, but it quickly escalates into something not so harmless. And as stated above, what if everyone was on Opiates for anxiety and depression. What would hospitals and doctors start to provide when these people are in legitimate pain? It would be madness. The combination of prescribed Opiates and the Opiates being given for pain would put too much strain on the body. It would simply be too much for a reasonable human to sustain without possible damage to the liver and body.

You and EM are spot on.

Relying on a pill for happiness/peace of mind is not real happiness/peace of mind. And it fades just as fast as the effects of the pill do.


I've long learned any happiness from drugs is not real. Its fake, an illusion, a shortcut to a feeling that most people spend their whole lives seeking. And the shortcut takes you to a fake version, that looks real enough, but after youre there for awhile you see it just for what it is: bullshit.

And then, without it? You have no idea how to feel.

I think we are buying into BigPharma, the FDA, and medicine as it is today a bit too much, and ignoring some undeniable benefits opiates could provide to help treat mental illness. Some of you are saying that relying on drugs for "happiness" is just not effective, yet you advocate SSRI's and benzos, both of which are psychotropic, and both of which can cause serious dependence? There are several flaws with this point of view, and I refuse to defend how medicine is being practiced today as how it should be practiced always. I won't defend indications of this drug or that, and say they cannot be used for something other than what they were FDA approved. All of this is so narrow-minded and restrictive. Black and white thinking just does not apply with how medicine should be practiced.

But, back to opiates themselves for the treatment of mental illness. There are questions that could be posed such as should they be used for opiate-addiction in maintenance therapy (psychiatric) or should they be used to treat pain conditions without organic cause such as fibromyalgia? Where does one draw the line? But, even that is really unimportant in why opiates should be used for mental illness such as depression or anxiety, for example. Opiates are, really, wonder-drugs for so many symptoms. Alone, natural/semi-synthetic opiates are not toxic to the body, and are frequently used for CHRONIC pain management. Why should physical pain be treated with opiates, but not mental pain? Is one more serious than the other? Should be just throw chronic pain patients on Cymbalta, or maybe Lyrica, and say that's all even if it does not help? No. In psychiatry, opiates could be used carefully at certain rx'd doses (like anyother drug) to treat mental illness, if it were warranted. Self-medicating can be counterproductive, but proper opiate therapy overseen by a medical professional could be quite efficacious in bringing relief to mental illness. Opiates are wonderful analgesics, and do relieve pain of any kind, not discriminating. They simply make one more comfortable. They are also euphoriants, but why is this bad in every case? They help to stimulate, allowing for longer periods of activity with increased frequency w/o discomfort, as well as relaxing and sedating, allowing for good and comfortable sleep. Take a severly depressed individual, who has not responded to a variety of anti-depressants, and even responded poorly to ECT. What do we do? Allow the individual to suffer in his pain or relieve it?

There needs to be understood the difference between dependence and addiction. Many chronic pain patients use their opiates as prescribed w/o any addiction, but with significant relief. There is no reason the same would not hold true. Chronic dosing will lead to dependence, of course, but so will most any anti-depressant and benzos, of course.

Great posting, and great counter, I agree about the black and white thinking, and how opiates have been pretty much blacklisted by society in favor of Big Pharma's other, new, less effective, more expensive medications. I also believe that opioid medication has a place in psychiatry. I agree with you, Alex000.

 

[laCster]

definitely not reasonable. if you are already anxious and nervous chances are you're more likely to become a physically and/or psychologically.

 

[printer]

After having 20 CBT sessions along with psychotherapy for General Anxiety and Panic Attacks with 2 different therapists I decided not to try another course of it. What a waste of money those sessions were for me. I went because the doctor and everyone said you can't rely on drugs you need to fix the root cause etc. I went through several therapists as well as more alternative therapies, meditation retreats, hypnosis and other stuff. After things not working with one someone would always suggest something else. A few thousands dollars later and here I am on benzos because my original referring doctor ended up just saying look sometimes people just need the medication and prescribed them to me.